Road, Rail & Access Issues

[leedslad]

I don't think you can come out with price quotes as a feasibility study of such a line to the proposed *new terminal* hasn't yet been carried out.

Councillor Andrew Carter (Conservative) at a recent Leeds City Council meeting was quoted for saying additional money for infrastructure projects are likely to be made available following the overwhelming support the government had for their Brexit handling. Not something I personally endorsed but lets see if additional money is made available.

Exactly this.

The question needs to be reasked and experts (not Internet forum desktop experts) need to re evaluate...

The location of a direct spur would now be completely different, shorter and over different topography.

Also it is somewhat flawed to value a direct rail station based on user numbers alone... What if the convenience of a direct rail link encourages a foreign firm to locate in Leeds rather than other northern cities? That value wouldn't be captured by passenger numbers... But would be worth so much to the local economy.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Just had a read of the comments on here and I find it amazing how negative many are towards the parkway plans. Like WH states it is only 1250m to the terminal, from the station you would easily see the new terminal in view and vice versa esp if it had a wide direct road. As long as it had proper facilities with a covered warm area whilst waiting for regular buses to LBA then its a great idea. We have had great news today so lets be positive!

 

[airforced]

Nah it would definitely put me off...

You're forgetting all the transfers to get just to the new Parkway. Let's assume I don't live adjacent to a suburban railway station...

Walk to local station
Wait
Board with bags
Disembark Leeds City centre
Cross Leeds Station across multiple platforms
Wait
Board train to LBA with bags
Disembark Parkway
Wait
Board bus with bags
Disembark

It's just another unnecessary hassle and makes thr journey that bit longer and harder...

Spot on leedslad. As I mentioned earlier in a post about the parkway station etc I won't be using rail to get to LBA for the reason you mention plus the fact that it isn't possible from the coast for early departures/returns home late in the day. Being honest using the majority will, as they do today, still get to and from the airport by car no matter what the public transport situation is. Reasons are cost and convenience. Simple as that.

 

[airforced]

I neglected to mention, although to me it is obvious, any station will only be there for the convenience of rail passengers wanting to get into Leeds so enhancing the green agenda by reducing vehicular traffic in the city. Any spin off benefits to the airport will, at best, be incidental to that aim.

 

[Aviador]

The parkway if it gets built, isn't for everyone. Just as using the train isn't but any additional means of getting to LBA can only be welcomed.

 

[lbaspotter]

I welcome the Parkway Rail Station, am all for making to access to LBA better using public transport. For those whom don't drive it will compliment and enhance the existing bus services into the new Terminal.

Its also true that due to convenience of using the Car people have become lazy now. The is this stigma of using public transport, its seen to be using a "peasant wagon"
Sadly it won't change as the Car is king. Its gives you your own freedom and in doing so costs an arm an leg to run, tax & mot each year.

This investment by AMP Capital in making our airport a whole lot better is very much welcomed. Hopefully it will attract new business not just into the airport but into the whole of the Leeds City Region.
Now its time for Labour run Leeds City Council to get its act together. With a bit of joined up thinking they could deliver the Parkway Rail Station at the same time the new Terminal Building at the Airport opens in 2023.

#Bringiton! #LBA2023TP

 

[AirBingley]

I'm thinking re parkway station that LCC / NWR should consider the following:
1. Calling it "Leeds International' or 'Leeds Bradford Airport' - parkway makes it sound miles away and now it clearly isn't and that might remove some stigma / misconception - thinking SEO when people google it - the walk is about the same as to T3 in Manchester and that's not named parkway!
2. Building platforms long enough for LNER Azumas to take traffic away from Leeds City Centre for Wakefield / Doncaster PAX using the train- the council should welcome that
3. Considering a 3rd platform where a train can terminate and not interfere with the Harrogate line

This is kind of my thinking when I do my council support Email of the whole plan.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

They want to build a terminal of white house lane? I presume this was planned with the knowledge that the potential of link road running by the south therefore traffic diverting into the new terminal? What happens now that they have, stupidly, scrapped the link road?

This would require a substantial investment in White House lane to cope with the traffic travelling to the bottom of the road? If the station has enough car park spaces for locals to use this station to commute to Leeds, White House Lane will become a congestion road especially in peak time in Winter (not summer as the majority of customers will be in the terminal before 7am, and on their way or in the terminal after 5pm). I know it needs to be discussed elsewhere, but the plan for this station needs to include a 3rd platform which is a terminating platform to run LBIA - Horsforth to Leeds calling at the other stations. At the start this would be redundant but as the passenger numbers grow there will be a requirement for a Leeds to LBIA via Horsforth only service

Also the old terminal is still present in the images, does that mean it becomes an arrival terminal?

 

[lbaspotter]

Nah it would definitely put me off...

You're forgetting all the transfers to get just to the new Parkway. Let's assume I don't live adjacent to a suburban railway station...

Walk to local station
Wait
Board with bags
Disembark Leeds City centre
Cross Leeds Station across multiple platforms
Wait
Board train to LBA with bags
Disembark Parkway
Wait
Board bus with bags
Disembark

It's just another unnecessary hassle and makes thr journey that bit longer and harder...

That's just as good as me travelling to Manchester Airport then? Real pain in Arse.

Walk to local bus stop
(5 mins)
Wait
(God knows how long as First Leeds are so unreliable)
Board bus with bags
(1 hour later)
Disembark bus Leeds City square
Walk across Leeds city Squre
With Bags
(5 mins)
Enter Leeds Station get through the ticket turnstiles
with Bags
(5 mins)
Then walk cross multiple platforms
with Bags
(5 mins)
Wait
(15-20 mins so long the Trans Pennie Trains are running)
Board train to MAN with bags
(1 hour 30 mins)
Disembark Airport Station
Walk upstairs with bags.
(2-3 mins)
Then walk to T1, T2 or T3 with bags (hoping the travel actors are working 10-15 mins)

Getting to LBA is so much easy. Can be there in 30-40 mins using local buses.

Walk to local bus stop
Wait
Board no9 bus with bags
Disembark bus Horsforth.
Wait
Board no757 bus to LBA with bags
Disembark Airport drop off
Walk into Terminal

 

[leedslad]

That's just as good as me travelling to Manchester Airport then? Real pain in Arse.

Walk to local bus stop
(5 mins)
Wait
(God knows how long as First Leeds are so unreliable)
Board bus with bags
(1 hour later)
Disembark bus Leeds City square
Walk across Leeds city Squre
With Bags
(5 mins)
Enter Leeds Station get through the ticket turnstiles
with Bags
(5 mins)
Then walk cross multiple platforms
with Bags
(5 mins)
Wait
(15-20 mins so long the Trans Pennie Trains are running)
Board train to MAN with bags
(1 hour 30 mins)
Disembark Airport Station
Walk upstairs with bags.
(2-3 mins)
Then walk to T1, T2 or T3 with bags (hoping the travel actors are working 10-15 mins)

Getting to LBA is so much easy. Can be there in 30-40 mins using local buses.

Walk to local bus stop
Wait
Board no9 bus with bags
Disembark bus Horsforth.
Wait
Board no757 bus to LBA with bags
Disembark Airport drop off
Walk into Terminal

Imagine a foreign tourist or business visitor arriving to LBA if direct rail link existed though?...

Exit terminal
Board train
Exit Leeds City centre

One simple and fast journey

Now with Parkway bus and English as second language...

Figure out where correct bus stop is out of several
Be unsure how many stops said bus might make and where to pay
Take all bags off the bus and load back on to train

Adding ten minutes to journey, hassle, open to the elements and ambiguity to the journey vs jump in a taxi

 

[Bigman]

WYCA could actually do a cheap, useful and very quick to set up temporary solution for making access to the airport easier. Put a bus shuttle on from Apperley Bridge to the Airport. Connects with trains from both Leeds and Bradford and would only take 10 minutes if it came straight up via JCT roundabout, Green Lane and Harrogate Road. Eg – Leeds to Applerley Bridge 11 minutes + allow 10 minutes to interchange + 10 minutes to the terminal = 31 minutes. You can’t get from City Station to Kirkstall Lights on a 757 in that time at rush hour.

 

[lbaspotter]

If the taxis were well priced that would help visitors into Leeds, Bradford etc but Arrow are robbing you know what.
Ilkley Taxis charge £17.00 from Ilkley to LBA......on my return trip back Arrow charged me £32.00 from LBA to Ilkley, never again.

@Offint totally agree with you regards Arrow Taxi's been a rip off c--ts
From mine to Airport is £10 with Stanningley Cars whilst Arrows charge anything between £15 & £18. We always pre-book return journey home now with Stanningley Cars..

Using Buses is easy too, as I just use me prepaid "Pink M-Card" which can be used on any Bus operator within West Yorkshire.

 

[Aviador]

The minutes from the recent Leeds City Council meeting regarding surface access to the airport, parkway & employment hub.

 

[Aviador]

Leeds City Council transport strategy is to; increase the number of speed bumps throughout the city.

 

[White Heather]

Well that was a good read! It was particularly interesting to see that the council are most definitely behind the Parkway Station along with the Park and Ride scheme and that roads would be constructed linking the Parkway Station to LBA, and then presumably up to the new Employment Hub - and also from the A658 to the Employment hub itself, and the total budget for all this is considerably less than the original road link proposals. Well, it would be wouldn't it?

In particular it was also interesting to see the Government take re aviation and climate change and it seems to say that individual airports and cities they serve should not be taking individual action and they should follow Government directives which would be aimed equally across the country. I read that to mean that if one airport has to cut back, so do the rest. For me that is the only fair way. Having read this though I feel more encouraged the Council will support the terminal development, as firstly not doing so would possibly be contravening the Government directive and seen to be treating LBA unfairly (in terms of competition) , and secondly, they are wanting funding from LBA towards what they are planning. This would normally come via a Section 106 payment attached to a Planning Consent, which of course, LBA will be submitting in the Spring. If the Council want LBA to put funds into the pot, they are not likely to say no to the scheme - otherwise they won't get the money from the airport.

Although we know that the new terminal would be Carbon neutral from when it opens in 2023, the Council clearly want LBA to do more to counter the impact of aviation on the local environment. I wonder if LBA might therefore fund a tree planting scheme or similar in the future to help offset the impact of the aircraft using the airport?

 

[White Heather]

Leeds City Council transport strategy is to; ncrease the number of speed bumps throughout the city.

At least they are making them interesting now by having them all sorts of different shapes, sizes, heights etc. Just to keep us guessing what's coming next.

 

[Aviador]

Thanks @White Heather you clearly have a eye for the detail but I guess it's taking part in all these consultative meetings that perfects this quality. An airport funded city forest or nature reserve sounds a great idea and it's something I have thought also. I know there are plans for a northern forest which is partly funded by the government I understand. Perhaps this is something LBA could get involved with and be very vocal about. Some other airports have also got some great community funds and are getting really involved with their local communities, this is something LBA really needs to be doing now. They need to be on a charmed offensive .Gatwick projects for example.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

I quote from the article:

"The Parkway Station – This option commanded considerably more support than any of the road options in the recent consultation" - of course it did. People would prefer to travel into Leeds for work by rail then crawl along the A65 at peak time. I just don't understand how the hell the council are going to get people from the roads into the train station car park without either substantial investment in the road links themselves or investment in park and ride services connecting the train station to Yeadon, Otley, Gusieley, Menston and Apperley Bridge as a start.

The fact of the matter is that the council are either going to have to largely invest into White House Lane, making it potentially dual carriage way to alleviate the inevitable congestion caused by not only a) the terminal been situated at the South but also b) rush hour traffic from the Park and Ride station within proximity and/or invest in local junctions which, already, snarl up between 3 and around 7pm.

Northern (or whoever else) need to ensure that they have invested in the correct rolling stock and deliver the correct service patterns to ensure there is not the overcrowding on the services and they can accommodate the growth along the line at other stations without adding further capacity into the line with an additional stop. Surely this is the time to build a train station for the future and future growth then ignore that and build it anyway? By that i mean a terminating platform where they can run Leeds - Airport services only calling at every calling point again alleviating the congestion on commuter Leeds-Harrogate and beyond services. I'm sure they are aware of this; and as usual, sure they'll ignore it and we'll be in 10, 12, 15 years time campaigning for an additional platform, more car parking spaces at this airport as the line has become overcrowded.

 

[Heathrowflyer]

Very astute comments Sherburnflyer. Let's hope that the council's road engineers know what they are doing. Sadly I was speaking to a taxi driver last week about taxi tanks in Leeds and he said that at a meeting with these same engineers they clearly didnt understand the traffic flow in Leeds and how altering bus stops on Merrion street was causing major congestion which was then creating a domino effect of delays throught the city centre. In addition, the new mini roundabout at Moortown ( which cost tens of millions) has been designed so that the turn off onto Scott Hall road is too narrow and sharp a turn for buses and lorries. They therefore have to move across both lanes of the dual carriageway to be able to exit, causing major delays and two accidents already. How any engineer approved this on paper is beyond me so I can easily see them devising a plan which will create a bottle neck on Whitehouse lane and Scotland lane.

 

[Heathrowflyer]

Just as an adjunct....congestian charging will be introduced for commuters in the next 5 to 10 years in Leeds. They are rolling it out for taxis this summer and the cameras used for number plate recognition could then easily extend to commuters. To get reduced pollution in the city and meet their climate change targets, Leeds council are already putting in place park and rides around the city ( outside of the outer ring road). I'm sure the parkway will meet the demands for this requirement in the Yeadon area. Therefore , given the expected volume over the next decade of commuters who will use the Parkway to avoid the daily congestion charge, there really does need to be suitable road infrastructure to get to this proposed facility or the roads will be gridlocked more than they are already in that area. And, as theres no park and ride near cookridge, adel etc this parkway will prove popular for commuters too who are nearer to the city...the catchment is large. This is all about future proofing.