Road, Rail & Access Issues

[White Heather]

Are the bus services getting much use, exluding the 757 from Leeds which is always well used, but not all airport passengers? I have seen quite a few 767 buses recently, the latest this morning in the middle of Otley (diverted there due to the closure of Pool Bank for resurfacing I think), and I haven't seen a solitary passenger on it. Similiarly on the 787 from York - those I have seen have no more than one or two passengers on, so no wonder First have cancelled it. A 50 mile round trip is a lot if there is hardly anyone on the bus.

I can't help thinking that a more frequent train from York via Harrogate to Horsforth and an airport shuttle bus timed to pick up at Horsforth when trains arrive from York, Harrogate, and Leeds for that matter, would work very well. The buses they use on the car park shuttle would probably do. I am sure it isn't impossible to provide a small pick up point in the station car park area and a means to get passengers across the tracks for those getting off from Harrogate/York without having to walk right round and over the road bridge?

 

[g_tripp60]

A shuttle bus from Horsforth station would seem a simple solution to connect the Airport to the rail network.

The downside would be that trains to/from Horsforth station are scarce first thing in the morning - first train half 6 and even more scarce at night - every hour after 7pm

Also there is limited room in the car park for anything other than a few cars, and the car park is B*tch to get out of for cars, never mind a shuttle bus.

The proper solution is a spur off the Horsforth - Harrogate line up to the airport, that could also mean more frequent services from Horsforth into Leeds (the busiest part of the route).

Can't see it happening though

 

[White Heather]

I agree that the spur is really needed, but I think it might happen eventually. They are trialling tram trains on a line near Penistone later this year to see what problems arise from using a light rail system on heavy rail tracks, and that will inform the process for the LBA spur, which is also intended to be tram-trains. I think that there is a real determination to build this line from both Bridgepoint and Leeds City Council, although Metro will need to put some money in too. I am sure it won't happen for a few years, but I think it will be there perhaps in the longer term.

Meanwhile I agree with the problems mentioned about the car park and getting out of the station, but I am sure something could be done with a little determination, and some money spent, including putting a couple of earlier trains on from York/Harrogate and Leeds so as to encourage airport passengers to use them. If the airport can subsidise the buses, then surely they can equally subsidise early and late trains which might not make a profit?

 

[rmac]

Sadly for DSA and DTV passengers wanting Dublin flights from the summer they will now have to travel to EMA or NCL, maybe MAN and probably LBA however if easier rail access was available via a shuttle bus from Horsforth or even nearer the airport many more would use LBA. Maybe the local authorities will give urgent attention to providing better access to LBA even in this time of downturn.
Imagine through trains from Sheffield or Doncaster to Leeds, LBA, Harrogate and York!

 

[Aviador]

Budget airlines have complained that the charges are driving more passengers away and they may stop operating out of airports that charge excessively. Easyjet spokesman Andrew McConnell said the additional fees were "unfair". "Warsaw is an example. They've put the charges up - we've withdrawn our services from the summer. "This really is a warning to UK airports that these charges are unfair."

Read the full BBC article here

I think many regional airports are starting to implement charges for one thing or another. I don't think that it is unreasonable of them to look at new ways of increasing revenue in principle but extra charges should be for things that are a choice to the travelling public.

At LBA the airport introduced a pick-up and drop-off zone whereby you have 10 minutes free, this is fine but I disagree with the fact that there is a restriction which says no return within an hour. For example: If you're visiting the airport to pick up a loved one, you just pop into the terminal for 5 minutes to check a flight time, quickly disappear and you come back in 40 minutes to pick your loved one up. Basically you will then be clobbered with a charge of £2.50 even though you have only been in the pick-up zone for less than ten minutes in total. The effect of this has caused numerous meeters and greeters to simply block the main approach road at peak times. This is caused by people who don't want to be charged £2.50 for just popping in to pick someone up. This causes mayhem to other road users, some of which aren't even using the airport at all.

Today I walked passed one of the exit barriers and a car driver was screaming down the intercom to the car park attendant arguing that they had only been in the pick-up zone for 5 minutes. This system seems to do nothing but infuriate people and so must deter people from using the airport in the future. What's the way forward?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Exactly the same at Bristol. There used to be no bar on returning within a few minutes which led to circuits of cars driving in an out of the rapid pick-up/drop-off.

Often there at queues at the inadequate number of exit barriers (two) and people who have overstayed have to get out and walk to the adjacent pay-station (unmanned like the barriers). Credit cards incur a huge premium over and above the actual cost of over-staying the free ten minutes.

Often queues at the barrier prevent people from leaving within the ten minutes who are ready and wishing to leave. They then have to pay because the queue means they have stayed more than ten minutes by the time they get to the barrier.

Tempers flare but the airport quietly chuckles to itself because the poor unfortunates are adding to its coffers. Almost a bit Ryanairish.

What's the way forward? A good question with no easy answer. I'll come back on that.

 

[rmac]

A few years ago I parked at Edinburgh and then discovered the flight my friend was on was delayed. The resulting car park ticket was expensive so I wrote to Edinburgh and asked if they might consider creating a layby somewhere on the road into the airport which could have the television monitors giving details of the arrivals etc such as the same in the terminal. Thus if you saw your flight was delayed you could drive away from the airport and return at the appropriate time. Edinburgh airport replied with a generally not interested letter.
Now when meeting someone or being met we always phone after collecting luggage etc to say when we will be in the pick up zone which is free but you cannot park there. Of course the airport does not benefit in any way financially.
Years ago when it was free or cheap we would go in and buy a coffee, perhaps papers etc and then wait until friends arrived. A good experience......... not any more.

 

[Aviador]

Airport drop-off snag

I WOULD like to draw your attention to the new rules being imposed at Leeds Bradford Airport which are that you can only drop off passengers in the drop-off zone with a five minute time limit and you cannot return within one hour. There is also a non-refundable charge on the baggage trolleys.
I am a private hire taxi driver and I work locally to the airport with contracts with local hotels who operate a park-and-fly scheme. As you can appreciate, this could involve several trips inside one hour, plus when returning to the airport.

I have on many occasions taken disabled passengers who need more time and sometimes because the airport do not always provide assistance I have had to take the passengers to the terminal building which incur charges. Also, the non-refundable charge on the trolleys only affects the infirm, the elderly and young families.

I would like the airport to drop the one hour return rule, give people more time in the drop-off zone (20 minutes) and drop the trolley charge or make it refundable.

Source

 

[Aviador]

Having now experienced this first hand, I totally agree with everything said above.

 

[Aviador]

Leeds Bradford Airport in U-turn after anger at 5-minute drop-off limit

AIRPORT bosses have done a swift U-turn on "unfair" parking charges – thanks to the YEP.

Leeds Bradford Airport's drop-off zone had traditionally allowed drivers 10 minutes free parking while collecting or depositing passengers.

But a new ruling introduced this week axed that time limit by half – giving motorists just five minutes grace.

After that time they would have to pay £2.50 just to get out of the airport at Yeadon.

Today, however, after the YEP highlighted drivers' concerns, airport managers had a change of heart.

With immediate effect they are restoring the old time limits.

Taxi driver Martyn Johnson, of Yeadon-based SJK Private Hire, had criticized the new limit, saying five minutes were not enough to allow passengers to unload their baggage.

It would especially penalise the elderly and the disabled, he added.
Told of the airport decision to scrap the charges, he said: "That's great news – it's good to hear that common sense has prevailed.

"Thanks to the YEP, too, for highlighting the problems we were having. The publicity seems to have made a real difference."

A spokeswoman for Leeds Bradford International Airport (LBIA) said bosses had listened to customer feedback.

She told the YEP: "Due to the recent increase in demand for flights from LBIA this summer, our aim is to offer modern facilities which allow quick and easy access to and from the terminal.

"Therefore we have undertaken an analysis over the last week, and listened to the views of our customers.

"Following this constructive feedback we have decided to revert back to the 10 minutes free drop off/pick up period.

"This will take immediate effect and we apologise for any inconvenience caused to our passengers and business partners."

Source

 

[Aviador]

As I pointed out last week having experienced this fiasco at first hand as a passenger, the airport has finally climbed down and reverted back to the old 10 minutes free grace period.

 

[rmac]

At Edinburgh the set down/pick up area is patrolled by the police and is exactly for picking up or dropping off. Short stay car park is a minimum of 3 pounds.

 

[Aviador]

I don't disagree that as a dedicated pick-up and drop off zone that area should be kept as clear as possible. I fully understood the system and understood that I only had 5 minutes to dump the cases and get the car out of the carpark. What happened was that after dropping us off my sister then had to queue behind other cars that had got stuck at the barrier. I assume that they had gone over their 5 minutes of grace. My sister then found that she too had gone over the five minute period and was charged £2.50. With such little amount of time to play with, the likelihood of incurring a £2.50 charge on both pick-up and drop-off is high and so the airport was almost guaranteeing itself an extra £5.00 per vehicle.

The old system which allows 10 minutes free was OK but that too causes problems because it dosn't allow drivers to leave the area and return later having found out an arrival time without incurring a charge. Passengers have already become aware of this system and so many decide to drop of at the main road on double yellow lines. This is becoming a safety concern because pedestrians are crossing the roads at unsuitable locations. I know of at least one pedestrian incident and several minor vehicle bumps which 'could' have been averted had the drivers used the proper pick-up and drop-off area. Unfortunately the airport isn't encouraging drivers to do this by implementing such draconian measures.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Airports increasingly seem to be trumpeting a 'free' rapid pick-up/drop off park as something passengers should be grateful for whereas, in truth, the free period is so short (invariably no more than ten minutes) that it is often impossible to get in and out of the park in that time because of queuing traffic at the exit barriers.

You only need one or two cars whose drivers need to pay at the pay station to quickly cause a queue of others who then have to pay themselves because they can't get out quickly because of the queue and for no other reason. An even longer queue then builds up resulting in yet more drivers having to needlessly pay for the 'privilege' of dropping off or collecting airport customers.

Airport managements are aware of this of course but seem to do little to ease the situation; after all it brings in useful revenue. Having permanent staff members to manage the queues approaching the exit barriers and assist departing drivers generally would be a start.

I don't know what exact role the police play at Edinburgh airport but it is certainly not part of their duty to assist a private company (the airport) in managing its customers. If they at the car park for public safety purposes or security concerns that is fair enough.

 

[Aviador]

[textarea]Airport rat run fears lead to 20mph zone

A 20mph zone will be introduced following concerns about drivers using residential streets as a rat run to Leeds Bradford Airport.

A 20mph zone will be introduced following concerns about drivers using residential streets as a rat run to Leeds Bradford Airport.

The speed limit will be slashed from around The Emmett Arms, back to Horsforth and down to the A65.

Councillors and residents are concerned about the possibility of Rawdon being used as a rat run for passengers travelling to the airport. They fear the volume of traffic will increase now that the airport has permission to expand.

Coun Brian Cleasby (Lib Dem, Horsforth) said: "It will cause more rat running through villages like Rawdon and the 20mph speed limit will be vital to make sure that people slow down.

"This is an enormous step forward that we are looking at with the airport and we need to be looking at this situation with a 21st century head to protect all of the villages around it.

"I am excited that at last the residents of Rawdon will be consulted."
The scheme will be similar to one that was introduced in Horsforth around Town Street and King

A number of speed cushions and restrictions were implemented around the centre of the town to clamp down on speeding drivers.

Letters will be sent to affected residents in Rawdon next month to
discuss the plans and the scheme will be rolled out next year.

Coun Chris Townsley (Lib Dem, Horsforth) added: "Whether or not you believe it is a good or bad thing that the airport has been given permission to expand you have just got to accept it.

"This means that to maintain its role in the area there will be an
increase in traffic on the roads.

"Anything that we can do to help protect the people who live nearby can only be welcomed.

"The more that we can reduce speed on our roads then the better and
safer it will be for everyone."

Source[/textarea]

The council have gone barking mad. The road concerned isn't even used by people going to the airport. These councilors are blaming the airport for years of council mismanagement in the local road infrastructure.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The good councillor is 'excited' that 'at last' the residents of Rawdon will be consulted.

He might be pleased, but excited? What sort of life does he lead?

Exactly the same in the green fields of North Somerset. BRS is blamed for near gridlock on the A 38. I spend a lot of time out that way (am a village boy originally from just down the road from what is now BRS) and there is no gridlock and the time the road is really busy is commuter time with all those nouveau village dwellers travelling to and from work in the city.

A local village blamed the airport for creating a rat run through it alleging, wait for it, 14,000 vehicles a day using its narrow streets. That would mean nearly every airport passenger, including children, driving alone and passing through Barrow Gurney (lovely name isn't it?).

Many councillors, like a lot of MPs, have never run anything bigger than a lucky dip at a jumble sale until they are elected to office, when suddenly they become responsible for the spending of many millions of pounds - not their own money of course.

Is it any wonder they come up with such crass ideas not to mention some of the more unscrupulous beating airports round the head for their own political or other agendas?

 

[Bigman]

The roads that seriosuly need traffic calming measures are Yeadon High Street and also Cemetery Road. Both these roads are rat runs, which at night more resemble an RAC Rally. Too many people use Yeadon as a short cut to the airport instead of using the A65, A658.

 

[Aviador]

TheLocalYokel - I got quiet 'excited' reading your post.

I disagree Bigman. Yeadon itself is off the beaten track for the majority of people trying to get to the airport. The A65 is the main route from Leeds which unless you're local you wouldn't know that alternative routes are available through Horsforth and Scotland Lane or Bayton Lane, neither of those routes involves using Yeadon as a rat-run. I just can't imagine why anyone outside the local area would use Cemetery Road to get to the airport Bigman. Very few passengers come from the Skipton direction and again only local people will use Yeadon as a rat-run. Bradford has by far the worst links to the airport and again the A658 route goes nowhere near the Yeadon (Rawdon or Horsforth) areas.

I can use my own personal driving habits as an example. Returning back to Yeadon from Leeds during rush hour I will use Burley road, the lessor of two evils comparing it with Kirkstall Road near ITV Yorkshire, then on up to West Park to join the 97 bus route briefly, then onto Brownberrie Lane before using either Bayton Lane or Scotland Lane to get to Yeadon (without using the airport) Sticking to the the speed limits throughout the journey can shave 15 minutes off in rush hour.

My personal reasons for not using the A65 followed by the A658 as the main route to the Yeadon area is because of the amount of speed cameras along the route. I'm not suggesting that I like speeding at all but speed cameras have the tendency to slow people down more than is necessary. Virtually every time I try use the A65 I get stuck behind people who don't realise that the majority of the road between Leeds and Rawdon is actually 40mph and they drive at 27mph thinking that they're going to get caught out by the cameras. If people drove between 37-40mph less people would use the side roads as rat runs.

As a separate issue, Yeadon High Street and Cemetery road may need traffic calming measures.

 

[Bigman]

I disagree with you on this one White Heather, although you might have taken my 'route' out of context. I am talking about people coming up through Guiseley and up into Yeadon rather carrying on the main A65 to the Green Lane Junction (JCT roundabout).

Believe me, Yeadon does need traffic calming measures.

 

[Aviador]

Bigman it was me who wrote that (Aviador) not White Heather - concentrate old boy! :smile: