Bristol Airport - General Thread

[TheLocalYokel]

mr Calder may be a travel "expert" but he's not always right. During the Easter holidays last year there was a hugely disruptive French air traffic control strike which resulted in myself wife and kids stranded in the lovely riviera. However we needed to get home for work so I had to return via LHR. Anyway, my wife was interviewed on good morning Britain and so was mr Calder. He told us we wouldn't get any money's back etc for the disruption, new flights etc. He was so wrong however we had it all back plus extra courteousy of ezy. Marko1 wife 1 - mr Calder 0

There was a hint of sarcasm in my post. Mr Calder seems to be on permanent call to tv and radio stations every time any of them cover a story remotely linked with aviation or holidays.

On programmes such as this evening he is of course speaking to a general audience, most of whom have little or no interest in aviation other than wanting a flight when they go on holiday, visit friends/relatives or need transport for a business trip. The interviewer, as is so often the case, has no intimate knowledge of the industry either and can only ask general questions and is not sufficiently aware of the subject to challenge someone like Mr Calder.

We all know that BRS is poorly situated and on a too small and difficult site, but this has not stopped what could be fairly described as phenomenal progress for an airport with so many physical disadvantages. That point was not made in the interview.

 

[Marko1]

Yes I fully agree. To see where the airport has come from over the last 20 years or so is to be applauded not criticised. Who would have thought that brs would be the 3rd busiest English regional airport. There is more than enough room to grow in the future too.

 

[Ornsack]

There was quite a long report on BRS on the ITV local news this evening

Little bit on their website - http://www.itv.com/news/west/2016-01-27 ... milestone/

Just nice to see a pic of the progress!

 

[tpm]

Thanks for the link. The article states that the steel frame has been completed, but it looks nothing like on the image from the masterplan on the airport website in scale.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Latest edition of the Bristol Airport magazine Your Airport is now online at http://www.bristolairport.co.uk/about-u ... t-magazine

When the page is accessed click on winter 2015/2016.

 

[forest1979]

Yes I fully agree. To see where the airport has come from over the last 20 years or so is to be applauded not criticised. Who would have thought that brs would be the 3rd busiest English regional airport. There is more than enough room to grow in the future too.

Just reading up on the posts where Mr Calder's comments have been quoted. There is no doubt Bristol airport should be applauded for what it has achieved over the last decade... Passenger numbers increasing during a downturn, a fantastic and fruitful relationships with airlines, particularly easy jet which has been the back bone of a lot of its success however, Mr Calder i think in my opinion does make some valid points. I say this is a fan and user of the airport however there is no getting away from the fact that it is really a bit out of the way. Yes there have been some good transport links set up, i note the new stage coach operation from Plymouth as a good example but lets face it, not being just off the motorway like a lot of major airports and no rail access, i think long term could be an issue. I would also add that i believe when it comes to it, the airports decision not to include a runway extension in the master plan (regardless of how feasible this may or may not have been) might be the one thing that they live to regret. I know some of this was based on information at the time but the fact that it was dismissed i believe poses a real challenge for the future as this would be controversial on many levels. Good Long haul routes or connections is the one thing the airport doesn't have in its offering over competitors but for sure has a market for in the southwest. Yes Cardiff could operationally pick this up but i believe that if the option was available at Bristol and airlines were not restricted by the runway length and apron space to expand further, airlines would plump for Bristol given a choice. There is plenty of wealth and people as he points out who are currently opting to travel because this option isnt available and for some of the reasons listed above. I would note here that when i talk about options, i mean in the main direct transatlantic.. I think people traveling from most airports accept a connection via a hub when going east (this is where the ME carriers come into their own today) but a hop generally speaking across the pond is a bit different. Going to New York or any where on the east coast of the states/Caribbean should really be direct. This is where the WOW set up (fingers crossed it works) will be interesting as its another hub stop going west for Bristol.

I suppose my point is that whether we like it or not, Bristol will be restricted i think in years to come by its size and location, that's where Mr Calder may have some valid points.

Im sure there will be a few that disagree with my view. Bristol is focused on being a world leading regional airport. To achieve that i think there are some things that commentators mention that the airport may need to consider and address in order to keep the momentum it has managed thus far. For now, i hope we see lots more good news from the airport.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Just reading up on the posts where Mr Calder's comments have been quoted. There is no doubt Bristol airport should be applauded for what it has achieved over the last decade... Passenger numbers increasing during a downturn, a fantastic and fruitful relationships with airlines, particularly easy jet which has been the back bone of a lot of its success however, Mr Calder i think in my opinion does make some valid points. I say this is a fan and user of the airport however there is no getting away from the fact that it is really a bit out of the way. Yes there have been some good transport links set up, i note the new stage coach operation from Plymouth as a good example but lets face it, not being just off the motorway like a lot of major airports and no rail access, i think long term could be an issue. I would also add that i believe when it comes to it, the airports decision not to include a runway extension in the master plan (regardless of how feasible this may or may not have been) might be the one thing that they live to regret. I know some of this was based on information at the time but the fact that it was dismissed i believe poses a real challenge for the future as this would be controversial on many levels. Good Long haul routes or connections is the one thing the airport doesn't have in its offering over competitors but for sure has a market for in the southwest. Yes Cardiff could operationally pick this up but i believe that if the option was available at Bristol and airlines were not restricted by the runway length and apron space to expand further, airlines would plump for Bristol given a choice. There is plenty of wealth and people as he points out who are currently opting to travel because this option isnt available and for some of the reasons listed above. I would note here that when i talk about options, i mean in the main direct transatlantic.. I think people traveling from most airports accept a connection via a hub when going east (this is where the ME carriers come into their own today) but a hop generally speaking across the pond is a bit different. Going to New York or any where on the east coast of the states/Caribbean should really be direct. This is where the WOW set up (fingers crossed it works) will be interesting as its another hub stop going west for Bristol.

I suppose my point is that whether we like it or not, Bristol will be restricted i think in years to come by its size and location, that's where Mr Calder may have some valid points.

Im sure there will be a few that disagree with my view. Bristol is focused on being a world leading regional airport. To achieve that i think there are some things that commentators mention that the airport may need to consider and address in order to keep the momentum it has managed thus far. For now, i hope we see lots more good news from the airport.

Hello forest 1979.

I can't take issue with too much of what you say.

BRS has outperformed hugely over the past 15 years or so, especially taking into account its small site, remote situation (relatively anyway) and other physical disadvantages. As you suggest, easyJet has been the main driver although it has to be said that BRS was through the 2 mppa barrier before Go arrived in 2001. Even Ryanair had only a Dublin service in those days.

From a commercial aspect and given a level playing field BRS with its larger and more prosperous catchment (than CWL), plus fairly easy access to secondary markets including South Wales, the further South West and parts of the M4 corridor is the obvious contender to be the main South West/South Wales airport for long haul as it is already for short haul.

However, as you point out, the physical constraints of the airfield will always be a significant obstacle to overcome if there is to be any sort of long haul network (I include both schedule and charter in this). Newer types of aircraft such as the B 787 and A 350 may be some sort of answer, although the expected introduction of these types (especially the B 787 if only on transatlantic charters) has not yet materialised despite Thomson saying in 2010 that the airport would be one of the first to see their 787s in operation. Some believe this is because there are operational difficulties that may not have been identified earlier.

The other issue that may be playing a part on airlines' decision to operate long haul from BRS (whether schedule or charter) is the APD question. If this tax is devolved to Wales and the government there reduces it to nil (as it says it would do) it would almost certainly be a major factor in any airline's thinking. I've said before that we may have to wait until the Westminster government makes up its mind one way or the other.

As to a runway extension, the airport has always said in its master plan that the matter would always be kept under review. It doesn't believe that the cost of the environmental disruption of taking possession of Felton Common (which it would have to do if the runway was to be extended for a distance that would be worthwhile) would justify what it believes would only ever amount to perhaps no more than four long haul scheduled routes (it suggests three to the USA and one to the Middle East) and some long haul charters.

In this the airport doubtless recognises that the chances of extending onto Felton Common in this way would be very low and legal battles would take for ever. If the 787/350 cannot operate realistically from the current runway it remains to be seen whether the airport will look again at the runway extension issue.

Recently on another aviation website my alter ego discussed BRS and long haul and part of my post then was this when I tried to place BRS in context.

Bristol as a city and city region region is one of the most prosperous and economically successful in the UK and has managed this with no direct long haul air connectivity (other than the former EWR route) from its local airport. It can be argued that its residents are already spoilt for choice: one of the world's biggest airports is 90-105 minutes away; the local airport certainly punches above its weight given its physical size and remote location with an abundance of short haul offerings and links to several nearby European hubs; BHX is 80-90 miles along the M5 with a growing list of long haul routes and carriers; there are smaller airports at CWL, EXT and SOU (and BOH if it gets its act together) within reach if, for whatever reason, none of the other airports mentioned fits a particular bill.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/MP-raises- ... story.html

A Bristol Labour MP expressed her concerns to fellow MPs during a Westminster debate this week on regional airports that air passenger duty devolution to Wales would cause significant harm to both Bristol Airport and to the region’s economy.

She quoted figures previously made public by the airport management that such a move could see the loss of a third of BRS’s flights and a drop of 25% in passenger numbers.

The current airport owners will have invested around £100 million in airport infrastructure development since 2010 when the current round of amelioration is completed by the end of this year. Add to that another (at least) £50 million spent on infrastructure improvements during the preceding ten years by previous owners and it demonstrates the huge investment (for an airport of this size) that has already gone into ensuring that BRS’s growth is matched by facilities.

The MP said, ”Bristol airport wants to continue to invest in facilities and create jobs, but APD would remove the level playing field on which we currently operate.” She is concerned that APD devolution would redistribute passenger traffic. She called for ‘greater certainty’ for regional airports and said the Westminster government should decide quickly on APD devolution and the question of a third runway at Heathrow.

The latter is of interest to the West Country because currently six million people from the South West use the London airports each year.

The aviation minister, Robert Goodwill, said he didn’t have the time to address the concerns surrounding airport tax changes.

My own feeling is that a general devolution of APD responsibility to the Welsh Government may not be the way that the matter will proceed, not yet anyway. The Silk Commission (charged with looking at taxation responsibility in Wales) recommended a few years ago that in the first instance only long haul APD should be devolved to the Welsh Government.

There was a report in I think the Sunday Times a couple of months ago suggesting that negotiations with Westminster on APD devolution to Wales was not going smoothly. In recent weeks I’ve noticed that commentators and politicians, particularly in Wales, are talking more and more about long haul devolution. They may believe that this would be an easier prize (which to them any form of APD devolution undoubtedly is) to win.

They seem to think that because BRS has no long haul routes objections to Wales having long haul APD powers, and as a result getting itself long haul routes at CWL, would be more difficult to sustain. However, BRS is linked to five Western European hubs (AMS, FRA, MUC, BRU and DUB with up to 15 daily flights that can be used for seamless onward connections) through which many thousands of passengers fly from BRS on long haul and they have to pay the UK APD long haul rate.

Robert Sinclair, BRS CEO, makes the point that competition is expected in the aviation industry but that competition has to be on a level playing field. He clearly believes that giving his nearest competitor an enormous taxation advantage would amount to a biased playing field. Many might agree with him.

 

[Ray Finkle]

An interesting article about APD and the possible effects it may have on Bristol.

Research published today by Bristol, the ninth busiest airport in the UK, warned that the move would lead to a flood of travellers from England into Wales seeking cut-price air tickets. Bristol would lose 25 per cent of its passengers to Cardiff airport, which is about 60 miles away and is owned by the Welsh government. A third of air routes flown from Bristol would also be scrapped by 2020 after being rendered unsustainable, it was claimed.

The study estimated that £843 million would be lost from the southwest economy and more than 1,500 jobs would go.

Some 7 million passengers currently pass through the airport each year, including 1.3 million from Wales.

Robert Sinclair, Bristol’s chief executive, said: “If this tax is devolved to Wales and scrapped, we will be put at a significant commercial disadvantage to Cardiff Airport.”

Full article: http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/business/ ... 3fb4e5de8f

 

[TheLocalYokel]

http://www.bristolairport.co.uk/about-us/afairflight

http://www.bristolairport.co.uk/about-u ... 016/02/apd

The York Aviation report that suggested up to a third of BRS's routes would disappear and a generally serious implication for the airport would ensue if APD was to be devolved to Wales was first published many months ago.

I don't know whether it's been updated or whether it's being used again as support to show how badly BRS might suffer.

From their sister paper on Sundays saying a few months ago that the APD deal for Wales had collapsed it now seems the issue might be resolved in next month's Budget.

Long haul APD might be a compromise for Osborne and it would be in line with the Silk Commission's (set up to exlore tax regimes for Wales) recommendation that long haul APD be evolved to Wales in the first instance.

That would still have a serious effect on BRS as any chance of a NYC or ME route would seem to be a very remote possibility with airlines looking to CWL instead if £71 (£73 from April) was not charged on each adult fare (double for premium cabins). The hubs might suffer too because anyone flying from BRS long haul, via say AMS, pays the UK long haul rate. You can get around this by buying a separate ticket BRS-AMS then AMS-long haul but the connection is not guaranteed and I doubt that many people take the risk. I wouldn't because the airline would not reimburse you for missing the AMS-long haul sector and I doubt that many travel insurances would cover such an eventuality.

If all APD is devolved it's pretty certain that Ryanair would move into CWL as they love to boast the lowest headline fares and they always make a gesture when any country reduces or abolishes its air taxes. That's not to say that they would move out of BRS completely but any future growth might be doubtful and the network might even be reduced.

If APD is devolved it will be somewhat ironic that a Conservative government should act in a way that is likely to penalise a successful operation based purely in the private sector that has needed no public money to support it (and has benefited from huge overseas private investment) and at the same provide more tax payers' money* to a rival establishment that needs a lot of public financial support already to keep it solvent.

The analogy of two grocers shops in neighbouring towns is probably apt. One is well run and profitable but the other is struggling so the government allows the struggling shop to sell all its goods without charging VAT whereas the successful one still has to charge it.

* If APD is devolved to Wales their Westminster block grant (funded by tax payers from across the whole of the UK) will be reduced by the notional amount that APD generates if the Wales Government reduces APD to nil which it has already said it would do. Wales will therefore have to find savings in other areas of its budget to compensate.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Further to my previous post I've been reading a host of posts on a website dedicated to Welsh aviation about the possible APD devolution to Wales. Understandably and unsurprisingly every post is for the idea with most believing that Bristol Airport management is being unreasonable in trying to stop it, particularly if it is devolved only for long haul.

There is a belief there that BRS has no chance of getting any long haul routes because the runway cannot support even the B 787 and the A 350 (the B 752 which CO operated to EWR for five and half years managed perfectly well without, so far as I'm aware, a single diversion to take on fuel as did TOM's former First Choice B 767s to Sanford for most of the time but the 757 will not last for ever).

I know the conundrum about the B 787 (particularly) has come up before on this website but can anyone give a definitive answer as to whether the type could operate non-stop to, say, Doha.

Incidentally, the argument about long haul on the Welsh site I mentioned ignores completely the question of the long haul flights via the hubs such as AMS which still attract the UK long haul rate.

 

[Marko1]

I have been reading this subject of apd for some time and what is essentially what Cardiff wants is in essence an element of unfair competition. At the present point airlines by and large prefer the larger catchment provided by Brs. However by dropping apd on services from cwl it will make airlines reconsider which airport they fly from in the Wales and west region. That in essence would be unfair competition given that Brs would have no means to compete. What I think would need to happen is to drop apd from all regional airports and leave it in place for the congested south east . However somehow I think we may see a fudge of the issue such as long haul apd. I doubt it would be that attractive for airlines given that you can reach heathrow in 2 hours from Cardiff plus as Brs has no current non stop long haul service it wouldn't affect current routes either. So perhaps we should just settle for that and see what Cardiff could do with that

 

[Aviador]

The question about the Boeing 787 and the A350 capabilities from short runways keeps doing the rounds but nobody seems to be able to give a definitive answer. It is likely that the standard variants will be able to operate to somewhere like Doha from Bristol (or Leeds), but as far as I am aware there are (or soon will be) various extended versions of both types. I would imagine ops from short runways with the extended types will be subject to the usual restrictions.

 

[Aviador]

So far as APD goes the only way I can see it working is if the government links APD to regional devolution whereby the local authority can decide how to tax and spend. When I say regional devolution, I mean to local mayoral run authorities not just Scotland or Wales.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Than you for the responses.

I think it fair to say that given a level fiscal playing field that BRS would win out nearly every time because of its larger and more affluent catchment whether on short haul or long haul. This week a Welsh newspaper compared the economies of Bristol and Cardiff and admitted that Bristol is well ahead on most counts even with Cardiff (together with the Vale of Glamorgan) easily the most economically vibrant part of Wales. They actually compared only municipal Bristol too. Because of local parochial disputes the city boundary has not been extended since the early 1960s but the unbroken urban area has burgeoned - into the unitary authority of South Gloucestershire (mainly) - giving the physical unbroken city a population of about 700,000 - twice that of Cardiff where nearly all the urban spread is within the Cardiff city boundary.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/h ... l-10864640

Although commercially and without government interference BRS would prevail most of the time the doubt still remains about the operational question with Aviador describing the situation with the latest type of long haul aircraft.

If BRS cannot physically operate long haul routes then any airline wishing to operate from Severnside would have to plump for CWL irrespective of long haul APD devolution. What long haul devolution would do is affect the hub operations where long haul APD is still payable, and the York report believes that the Dublin route to North America is likely to be the worst affected.

I have no problem with CWL grabbing its share so long as it's fair competition. That's what business is about.

Incidentally, on the day when the temperature rose regarding the rights and wrongs of taxation creativity at the Severnside airports a report commissioned by politicians on both sides of the river regarding Bristol, Cardiff and Newport co-operating in a economic powerhouse was published.

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/b ... r-10876634

 

[Ray Finkle]

Bristol comes out top in the 2015 OTP rankings.

It also came sixth in the European, Middle East and Asia region and tenth in the whole world :good:


http://www.airportsinternational.com/20 ... =hootsuite

 

[TheLocalYokel]

What is the airport like?

BRS threads have become very quiet of late as there really isn’t much news to report and comment on.

After last year’s extremely busy year with new routes and other announcements coming, seemingly, one after the other it’s probably inevitable that things would quieten down for a while.

There are some new routes coming this year of course with WOW setting up and easyJet restarting Venice MP next month after an absence of several years (up against Ryanair’s Treviso) and commencing Dubrovnik (against the Thomson weekly charter flights) and Nantes (replacing bmi regional) a bit later into the year. Ryanair will also operate Krakow in competition with easyJet from next month and Wizz Air will fly to Warsaw Chopin from May against Ryanair’s Warsaw Modlin.

Short of something catastrophic occurring there will be passenger growth again this year, not least because easyJet will base an additional aircraft (the 13th) for the main part of the summer.

My own view is that airlines are waiting to see if a decision is announced regarding the devolution of air passenger duty to Wales and this might be particularly relevant in the case of potential long haul routes that an airline or airlines might be contemplating.

As it is quiet I thought I’d ask members’ opinions of their experiences when passing through BRS. Whenever the airport is in the news in the local paper there are those people who will invariably post comments criticising the facilities and route network. Some clearly think that BRS should be nearly replicating Heathrow in its range of routes and from some comments there are people who believe that many other regional airports in the UK do just that.

These people don’t seem to realise how lucky they are in having an airport with far more routes and frequencies than a number of airports serving considerably bigger catchments.

A regular complaint is the drop-off charge and this surfaced again today in another aviation web site message board where a poster alluding to BRS said he or she would never use an airport with a drop-off charge. Yet I guarantee if an airline put a pound or even a fiver on the ticket such people would not bat an eyelid but charge a quid to drop off and their world implodes. They don’t or won’t understand the economics of running modern regional airports.

Despite the £120 million that’s been spent on the airport infrastructure improvements in the past few years complaints still surface regularly about the terminal with it being variously described at times as being like a cattle pen or chicken house. I never know whether such descriptions apply to the building or the experience when at busy times the airport can become very crowded, although the east and west (this one currently being built) terminal extensions have and should further improve this aspect.

Another contentious issue is the 400 metre-plus passageway to the far end of the western apron. Since it was built about seven or eight years ago my wife and I have had to use its full length to board or leave an aircraft on at least half a dozen occasions. Now although we are certainly not in the first flush of youth we are fairly fit especially in terms of being able to walk and we actually enjoy the stroll after being stuck in an aircraft seat or about to be. I understand fully that less mobile people might find it a chore as perhaps would parents with very young children, although hold baggage does not have to be carried as it is collected from the carousels at the terminal end of the passageway. Assistance can also be booked by anyone needing help to join or exit an aircraft.

I don’t use the airport as often as I once did mainly because I now fly solely for leisure and increasingly my wife and I have been taking rail holidays, both in the UK and on the continent via the Channel Tunnel, and our long haul flying is done from from London. Nevertheless, I’ve still passed through BRS three or four times in each direction in the past year and overall I cannot complain. There are always minor irritations at nearly every airport I’ve ever used but I find that the experience at BRS is always very acceptable.

 

[BRSregular]

Personally, I've only got positive things to say about the airport. It is certainly moving in the right direction and at a reasonable fast pace.
I was last there 2 weeks ago and I flew to Kaunas. I tried the Aspire lounge for the first time and was very impressed.
Of course there will always be occasions where things don't go to plan like the time my 06:15 to AMS left over an hour late meaning I missed my connection to Stuttgart but these things cannot be blamed on the airport. Since the extension, it no longer feels cramped in the terminal despite the slowly increasing number of flights per day/week.
I too agree that to much emphasis is being put on certain direct flights by some people. I use London airports regularly and maybe we should face facts that not every airport needs a direct NYC link (to name one often discussed destination). Bristol does very well with KLM, Brussels, Aer Lingus, BMI and hopefully WOW serving the world with just one stop. It's a shame we lost Air France but if Turkish and one of the ME3 were represented at Lulsgate, I think it would be a pretty good set.
Of course it's always nice to see new airlines at Lulsgate and I for one would love to see Norwegian as I personally rate them higher than any other LoCo but maybe I would be satisfied with Wizz and Ryanair expanding. Hopefully the APD issue will be resolved soon which should help everyone to know where they stand on the issue.
Back to the airport infrastructure, yes the charge for dropping off is a scandal and walking to the terminal on a windy rainy day is horrible so for me, I hope they build a gleaming multi story car park over the gravel car park asap. The current car park makes a very amateurish first impression for a visitor.
Any other niggles will hopefully be alleviated when the terminal extension opens in the summer. Passport control can get a tad stretched of a few planes land within a few minutes of each other.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Many thanks for your comments BRSregular.

To take up one or two of your points, I tend to agree about a direct NYC. Unless you're off to the New York area there's invariably a long wait to change aircraft for a more distant US or Canadian destination one way or the other, sometimes in both directions. In some ways it's not much different from flying to AMS or DUB and changing aircraft there for a direct flight to a destination of choice.

That said a direct NYC service would undoubtedly be useful for some although like you I can't help thinking that a ME flight would be better (although it may not be a case of one or the other of course) and Qatar operate B 787s which should be able to reach Doha from BRS without any problem. A few months ago a report appeared in the press or in a trade journal (I forget which) suggesting that Qatar was looking to the South West for a route.

A multi-storey car park is certainly within the expansion plans but what the timescale is for it I don't know. The west terminal extension works seem to be proceeding well and much of the groundwork for the hotel now seems completed too.

Passport Control of course is outside the control of the airport. The Border Agency decides how it will operate including the number of personnel it fields at any one time.

Once agin, thank you for your input and we hope to read more posts from you in the future.

 

[BRSregular]

Don't get me wrong, I would love a NYC route to be reinstated. It was very nice to see 'Bristol' on the gate rather than Heathrow when I used Continental's service in EWR. Given the onward connections from the Middle East, I would prefer a middle eastern airline than a direct NYC link but I would love both if I could choose. I'm sure the airport could support both and as they do not compete, maybe there is sufficient market for both routes. I think Dubai would be the most popular route but it seems Qatar would be most likely of the 3 based on the little rumours from a few months ago. I wonder if a direct USA route is now not so much of a priority to BRS since WOW announced their flights.

I know that the car park is in the pipeline, I just wish they would crack on with it. Covered Parking with signage to show where empty spaces can be found would be very useful.