Infrastructure, Construction & Developments

[Timberwolf]

I guess some people will just never be happy.

Government mandated changes to security requirements in UK airports forcing BHX's hand into developing a new security area.

By the sounds of it, some forum members would rather the airport leave the existing security space empty and unused and build a terminal extension than do what the airport has proposed.

Whilst re-purposing the Millennium Link doesn't add new space overall to the airport, it will make the departure lounge bigger by probably at least as much as the previous upwards extension did if not more. It will also be finished earlier than a completely new build extension would be.

Currently very few people use the link to the Eurohub because they largely think nothings down there and only head over to the South side if their flight is departing from there and the flight has been called. With this latest proposal, the link will be opened up, drawing in passengers and spreading them out across the whole of the terminal rather than concentrate them in the "main" departure lounge.

Surely it's better to use what you have first, then only build new once that's your only option?

No, most people would rather see the airport deliver its 2018 materplan that they took on the road to promote.Even that was heavily watered down from the previous masterplan.
Especially highlighting they needed to build the lounge extension for rising passenger numbers !!

We also note that they are now saying they are spending £300 million on the airport into the mid 2030s in this release.

The masterplan says £500 million, so which ever way you try and flower it up, that's a £200m slash in the budget.Even before inflation.

They were also a build a large baggage hall extension also promoted by them underneath the lounge extension.Also lots of offices on the other floor they said was essential space needed.

So where do these all go now as well ?

All this as our competitors are building or planning to build big terminal expansions.

Absolutely shocking downgrade. The airport needs proper investors.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there all, I have mentioned this many times before about Birmingham airport, the 7 metropolitan councils that are the majority shareholders in the airport, have never been able to put investments in, because they don't have the money to do it and as Birmingham Airport is a private company, public sector funding is not allowed. So even with the minority shareholder Ontario teachers plan, may only contribute certain funds, this is where the councils now need to seriously look at selling off their majority stake,to allow someone to come in and put in proper investment in, otherwise Birmingham airport will never be able to upgrade and update in new things and expansion will stagnant like it already is happening.

 

[Timberwolf]

Hi there all, I have mentioned this many times before about Birmingham airport, the 7 metropolitan councils that are the majority shareholders in the airport, have never been able to put investments in, because they don't have the money to do it and as Birmingham Airport is a private company, public sector funding is not allowed. So even with the minority shareholder Ontario teachers plan, may only contribute certain funds, this is where the councils now need to seriously look at selling off their majority stake,to allow someone to come in and put in proper investment in, otherwise Birmingham airport will never be able to upgrade and update in new things and expansion will stagnant like it already is happening.

Absolutely agree Andrew.BHX desperately needs new investors.

What is needed the most is areas that people can sit down in.

This new plan, without the extra seating from the lounge extension provides virtually non, all this with big increases in passengers forecast into the 2030s .
It's hard enough now in summer as we have found to find anywhere to sit.

You can see where BHX are going with this.Planning application gone in for a new standing queuing hall Eurohub side, of course with no seating.Appalling treatment of passengers.

 

[Brum X]

It's time for a UK to have airports under an Aena (Spain) style investor ?

In its current form, UK airports are miserable and dire, even compared with small Spanish airports like Ibiza (IBZ) versus an airport like East Midlands (EMA) and we are supposed to be the 7th richest country in the world.

Don't make me laugh

 

[Aviador]

Hi there all, I have mentioned this many times before about Birmingham airport, the 7 metropolitan councils that are the majority shareholders in the airport, have never been able to put investments in, because they don't have the money to do it and as Birmingham Airport is a private company, public sector funding is not allowed. So even with the minority shareholder Ontario teachers plan, may only contribute certain funds, this is where the councils now need to seriously look at selling off their majority stake,to allow someone to come in and put in proper investment in, otherwise Birmingham airport will never be able to upgrade and update in new things and expansion will stagnant like it already is happening.

Manchester still managed to find £1bn to invest despite being in a majority public ownership. The argument for a private company isn't always clear-cut and it really depends on whether you can sell to a company who is willing to invest in the infrastructure. A venture capitalist company will often asset strip to get a quick return on their investment. They will often shy away from spending substantial amounts on infrastructure as it doesn't always provide a fruitful return.

certainly It's time for a UK to have airports under an Aena (Spain) investor ?

In its current form, UK airports are miserable and dire, even compared with small Spanish airports like Ibiza (IBZ) versus an airport like East Midlands (EMA) and we are supposed to be the 7th richest country in the world.

Don't make me laugh

Totally agree @Brum X , get um in to build some new terminals around the UK. I always feel embarrassed returning to the UK when I've been to Spain. They really know how to build airports. They aren't necessarily flashy but they certainly feel like they were built for the purpose and they're always future-proofed.

This was Murcia SJV which was closed when they moved to the new site.

 

[DarloPlaneBoy]

Yes hydrogen for me too. I think the plan now though is to expand it only for large vehicles.Whether that includes more busses , or just lorries I don't know.

NXWM have more Electric Buses on order and are starting to be delivered at the moment Birmingham City Council still own the Hydrogens which are refulled at Tyseley any issues with Tyseley and they have to use the Diesel Platniums at least for the time being Hydrogen Buses in the Midlands seems not likely to happen again

 

[Coathanger16]

No, most people would rather see the airport deliver its 2018 materplan that they took on the road to promote.Even that was heavily watered down from the previous masterplan.
Especially highlighting they needed to build the lounge extension for rising passenger numbers !!

We also note that they are now saying they are spending £300 million on the airport into the mid 2030s in this release.

The masterplan says £500 million, so which ever way you try and flower it up, that's a £200m slash in the budget.Even before inflation.

They were also a build a large baggage hall extension also promoted by them underneath the lounge extension.Also lots of offices on the other floor they said was essential space needed.

So where do these all go now as well ?

All this as our competitors are building or planning to build big terminal expansions.

Absolutely shocking downgrade. The airport needs proper investors.

We've been here before Timberwolf, but again since the 2018 master plan was published we've had a global pandemic, the highest levels of inflation seen in almost 40 years and now two wars affecting the East of Europe.

To plough on with a plan that was drawn up over 5 years ago whilst ignoring all of that is frankly mad.

However, the reconfiguration of stands around the Eurohub - part of the masterplan - is currently underway.

A government mandate required the airport to put in place new security scanners by June 2024. The airport could simply have replaced the scanners in the current security area but instead chose to invest more money creating a new security area.

Whilst yes the previous terminal extension did provide some back of house functionality, the main aim of it was to expand the departure lounge and the upper level would have been mostly F&B outlets. Sounds awfully similar to what the airport has proposed for the Millennium Link doesn't it?

From the pictures earlier in the thread, the majority if not all of the new F&B outlets in the reconfigured Millennium Link will have seating. As the current link has only a few sporadic benches, that will mean a net increase in seats in the departure lounge.

As for other airports:

- Heathrow's third runway has been on again/off again for longer than easyJet, Ryanair or Wizz Air have existed.

- Gatwick's northern runway is yet to be approved and is by no means certain. Having used both North and South terminals since the pandemic, BHX compares pretty well actually.

- Stansted's previously proposed new separate arrivals building has been scrapped, replaced by only a relatively modest extension to the existing terminal.

- Luton is currently operating at their passenger cap, with plans to increase the cap and for a second terminal yet to be approved so again by no means certain.

- Manchester's Terminal transformation project was launched as a £1bn scheme. It seems there's been changes to the scheme every year about which piers would be built and what would happen to Terminals 1 & 3, and so far it's looking like £1bn won't actually be spent.

Back to BHX; would you honestly prefer they leave the current security space empty and progress with the previous terminal extension? The former isn't part of the 2018 masterplan but the latter is, so by your comment about you'd rather see the airport deliver the 2018 masterplan I can only assume you're happy for the Millennium Link to be left empty and unused until 2033 which is when the masterplan runs until.

Masterplans aren't planning applications. They're rarely stuck to exactly as they're drawn up based on certain assumptions that can and often change.

So far the airport hasn't ditched the 2018 masterplan - they are actively delivering on it whilst simultaneously delivering extra that wasn't in the plan. That sounds like some committed investment to me.

 

[Aviador]

I can't remember which government brought in the masterplan requirement but they were introduced to give local communities an indication about how their local airport might impact them in the future. Airports are required to update their masterplan about every five years. They don't have to stick to the plan.

 

[HPsauce]

So long as we don't go down the Luton route, as they appear to be getting dreadful reviews with passengers increasing .
This needs careful thought and planning.

 

[rollo]

I absolutely agree with Aviador on Spanish airports having used Gran Canaria, Teneriffe and Alicante many times efficient immigration, spacious baggage claim and equally spacious and functional check in facilities and departure lounges with plenty of seating for those who do not wish to go on a shopping expedition.

Now for BHX - hope you are sitting comfortably.

Going through the passengers experience starting with check in the main check in area has been too cramped for years and the opening it out is as far as it goes improves it but will still be too small in my view and the check in desks at the far end are horrible and tiny bearing in mind these are inhabited by the likes of AF,KLM, SAS,Brussel,Lufthansa and Swiss etc a portfolio the likes of BRS, LBA and LPL would die for. Regarding the removal of the escalator and presumably the stairs next to it to be replaced by lifts I think that's a dreadful decision as I'm sure passengers ie customers would prefer just being able to step on a escalator with their hand luggage not to mention those arriving by the monorail from Birmingham International and eventually HS2which arrives next to said escalator who will be fully loaded with their luggage who then need to go down to check in then back up. Assuming the stairs are removed surely they have to be replaced prominently somewhere just for safety reasons so inevitably people will end up lugging their hand luggage up them.

The new security set up looks great and once up and running with views accross the apron from the old security area a real bonus of light and aeroplanes and i hope that it will be a seating area by the windows and not yet more retail. According to what I've read the new security machines reduce the process time by up to 50% so in theory no need for the "recommendations" of arriving 3hrs before departure, don't hold your breath though they want you airside in the shopping mall - oops departure area, I always head off to the international pier.

Moving on to the old Eurohub which becomes all Jet2, we've used it a couple of times recently and the check in area is fine and well managed by Jet2 an example to all. Upstairs the security process will be the same as above but to me the departure area in the Eurohub has always seemed a bit dingy and slightly cramped and when it really busy with Jet2 in full swing is it big enough is that why the new bussing / holding area is being cobbled together, sorry for the wording but that's how it looks to me and use of the words holding area does not sound promising hopefully it'll be OK as I'm trusting Jet2 here not to put up with rubbish, overall though that area seem to work OK and could do with a bit of tarting up(technical term)Does anyone know if the old unusable air bridges are to be removed? Ideally a few new ones would be good, costs money I know but this time of year passengers would appreciate them and Jet2 are quite happy to use them.


Arrivals - ever waited for a bus or steps seems most of the time for me in recent times and hardly ever abroad. I'm with Brum X with the escalator it's mad it is never turned on when shopping centres., large stores including our nearest Tesco, cruise terminals railway/underground stations seem to cope. I know safety is an issue but surely its can be monitored as there is always someone a few feet away telling people which passport to join so can't they tell when the area is getting over overcrowded or is that too difficult?
The actual passing through passport control has always been excellent at BHX for me, baggage claim generally good except when busy then it's hit and miss.. to be honest compared to most continental airports its pretty cramped and does need more carasols it must be hell when Emirates, Qatar and Saudi arrive close together along with other arrivals

On a wider note BHX has unrivalled domestic transport links weather by road or train ( don't know about buses but they are irrelevant really for passengers and probably most of the airports workforce due to shift patterns).

I know a lot of what I've written is a bit random and critical and maybe more than I meant but I am passionate Abuot BHX and want it better, I must have flown out of their well over a hundred times since the late sixties (BEA Viscounts) including four times in the last year and seen the airport go from a dump at the old Elmdon terminal to the present.

To sum up I would rate the airport as average not exactly Singapore or Hong Kong but certainly better than say Luton or dare I say Leeds. BHX has a difficult act to balance satisfying the likes of the Middle East carriers plus the European flags while also satisfying the needs of the LCC carriers while at the same time turning a profit all out of a limited income,so I would say that the current plan is designed to meet the needs of the moment but if they are really serious about 18million and above they have to think bigger in the near future.

The above are just my random thoughts and I have no relevant qualifications on the subject.

Finally congratulations to anyone who managed to get to the end

 

[Ray Finkle]

Has anyone at BHX actually gone on record to confirm that the departure lounge extension has definitely been dropped?

I'm with @Coathanger16 on this one. Utilizing the space that is already there before building more makes perfect sense to me and this seems an opportunity too good to miss. That upstairs land side area seemed a terrible waste of space before. I'm also hoping that these works will allow in much more natural light, the lack of which seems to be a common complaint.

Hopefully the lounge extension will still be in the background, as we head towards the end of this decade we're hopefully going to need it.

 

[Timberwolf]

NXWM have more Electric Buses on order and are starting to be delivered at the moment Birmingham City Council still own the Hydrogens which are refulled at Tyseley any issues with Tyseley and they have to use the Diesel Platniums at least for the time being Hydrogen Buses in the Midlands seems not likely to happen again

I think SPRINT is supposed to be Hydrogen vehicles.

 

[rollo]

Has anyone at BHX actually gone on record to confirm that the departure lounge extension has definitely been dropped?

I don't think anyone has specifically confirmed it's not going ahead but it is not included in the announced £300m schedule of works which covers up to 2033. I agree it makes complete sense to make use first of the upstairs space created by the enforced security changes and because of that the previous plan would inevitably have to change anyway and presents different options.

 

[Timberwolf]

I don't think anyone has specifically confirmed it's not going ahead but it is not included in the announced £300m schedule of works which covers up to 2033. I agree it makes complete sense to make use first of the upstairs space created by the enforced security changes and because of that the previous plan would inevitably have to change anyway and presents different options.

Just heard,the airport was apparently promoting building the Lounge extension within the next few years only a few months ago. At an airport promotional event at a very large transport associated HQ.
So the decision to drop or push it back indefinitely, can only have been a very recent change.
Perhaps driven by Bham City Council going bust, and another shareholder partner (Coventry ) also in dire straits.
How we need proper new nvestors, if that is legally possible with the current set up ?

 

[IanFarquharson]

Just heard,the airport was apparently promoting building the Lounge extension within the next few years only a few months ago. At an airport promotional event at a very large transport associated HQ.
So the decision to drop or push it back indefinitely, can only have been a very recent change.
Perhaps driven by Bham City Council going bust, and another shareholder partner (Coventry ) also in dire straits.
How we need proper new nvestors, if that is legally possible with the current set up ?

BHX could be referring to the lounge extension by 2025 where the current security area is ?

Has this project shifted to this new area as a result of the new £30m screening extension ?

I am trying to find out !

 

[Timberwolf]

BHX could be referring to the lounge extension by 2025 where the current security area is ?

Has this project shifted to this new area as a result of the new £30m screening extension ?

I am trying to find out !

Nope.. the lounge extension was to be a 3 floor extension, new build out. A fill in between the International pier and main terminal..Baggage extension first, offices and the lounge with lots more seating.
They now just intend to redo the current security area on the one level with a few shops and mainly a walk through area by looks.NOT a lounge.

 

[DarloPlaneBoy]

I think SPRINT is supposed to be Hydrogen vehicles.

Considering the issues at Tyseley I'm sure BCC or TFWM said Electric it was originally Hydrogens hence the 51 and X51 getting Hydrogen Veichles

I absolutely agree with Aviador on Spanish airports having used Gran Canaria, Teneriffe and Alicante many times efficient immigration, spacious baggage claim and equally spacious and functional check in facilities and departure lounges with plenty of seating for those who do not wish to go on a shopping expedition.

Now for BHX - hope you are sitting comfortably.

Going through the passengers experience starting with check in the main check in area has been too cramped for years and the opening it out is as far as it goes improves it but will still be too small in my view and the check in desks at the far end are horrible and tiny bearing in mind these are inhabited by the likes of AF,KLM, SAS,Brussel,Lufthansa and Swiss etc a portfolio the likes of BRS, LBA and LPL would die for. Regarding the removal of the escalator and presumably the stairs next to it to be replaced by lifts I think that's a dreadful decision as I'm sure passengers ie customers would prefer just being able to step on a escalator with their hand luggage not to mention those arriving by the monorail from Birmingham International and eventually HS2which arrives next to said escalator who will be fully loaded with their luggage who then need to go down to check in then back up. Assuming the stairs are removed surely they have to be replaced prominently somewhere just for safety reasons so inevitably people will end up lugging their hand luggage up them.

The new security set up looks great and once up and running with views accross the apron from the old security area a real bonus of light and aeroplanes and i hope that it will be a seating area by the windows and not yet more retail. According to what I've read the new security machines reduce the process time by up to 50% so in theory no need for the "recommendations" of arriving 3hrs before departure, don't hold your breath though they want you airside in the shopping mall - oops departure area, I always head off to the international pier.

Moving on to the old Eurohub which becomes all Jet2, we've used it a couple of times recently and the check in area is fine and well managed by Jet2 an example to all. Upstairs the security process will be the same as above but to me the departure area in the Eurohub has always seemed a bit dingy and slightly cramped and when it really busy with Jet2 in full swing is it big enough is that why the new bussing / holding area is being cobbled together, sorry for the wording but that's how it looks to me and use of the words holding area does not sound promising hopefully it'll be OK as I'm trusting Jet2 here not to put up with rubbish, overall though that area seem to work OK and could do with a bit of tarting up(technical term)Does anyone know if the old unusable air bridges are to be removed? Ideally a few new ones would be good, costs money I know but this time of year passengers would appreciate them and Jet2 are quite happy to use them.


Arrivals - ever waited for a bus or steps seems most of the time for me in recent times and hardly ever abroad. I'm with Brum X with the escalator it's mad it is never turned on when shopping centres., large stores including our nearest Tesco, cruise terminals railway/underground stations seem to cope. I know safety is an issue but surely its can be monitored as there is always someone a few feet away telling people which passport to join so can't they tell when the area is getting over overcrowded or is that too difficult?
The actual passing through passport control has always been excellent at BHX for me, baggage claim generally good except when busy then it's hit and miss.. to be honest compared to most continental airports its pretty cramped and does need more carasols it must be hell when Emirates, Qatar and Saudi arrive close together along with other arrivals

On a wider note BHX has unrivalled domestic transport links weather by road or train ( don't know about buses but they are irrelevant really for passengers and probably most of the airports workforce due to shift patterns).

I know a lot of what I've written is a bit random and critical and maybe more than I meant but I am passionate Abuot BHX and want it better, I must have flown out of their well over a hundred times since the late sixties (BEA Viscounts) including four times in the last year and seen the airport go from a dump at the old Elmdon terminal to the present.

To sum up I would rate the airport as average not exactly Singapore or Hong Kong but certainly better than say Luton or dare I say Leeds. BHX has a difficult act to balance satisfying the likes of the Middle East carriers plus the European flags while also satisfying the needs of the LCC carriers while at the same time turning a profit all out of a limited income,so I would say that the current plan is designed to meet the needs of the moment but if they are really serious about 18million and above they have to think bigger in the near future.

The above are just my random thoughts and I have no relevant qualifications on the subject.

Finally congratulations to anyone who managed to get to the end

The Buses are used mostly for the Cargo ramp workers the X12 is used at Nights and the 96 is extended to serve the Airport during the Night for ramp workers. The X1 carries most of the passengers and the 97 if it still runs past

 

[route66]

Nope.. the lounge extension was to be a 3 floor extension, new build out. A fill in between the International pier and main terminal..Baggage extension first, offices and the lounge with lots more seating.
They now just intend to redo the current security area on the one level with a few shops and mainly a walk through area by looks.NOT a lounge.

.....but will there be more seating? Very much needed!!

 

[Coathanger16]

.....but will there be more seating? Very much needed!!

The plan is supposedly for 5-6 new F&B outlets which will have their own seating plus a business lounge which would obviously have seating.

 

[Timberwolf]

.....but will there be more seating? Very much needed!!

Certainly the drawings we have seen show no new lounge seating.Although with the lounge extension now not going ahead until after mid 2030s if at all that's not surprising.

Seems there is a plan to expand WH Smiths, and add another eatery where the current security area is. The latter should provide bit more seating for anyone eating there .
However as others have said certainly won't give the 40% extra seating that the airport announced they needed in their masterplan from a lounge extension.

However it is what it is now ,and with the airport having to slash its budget from £500 million down to £300 million, can only be expected.

Sadly the airport bosses hands are probably tied, if shareholders can no longer stump up the required cash for such investment.

The modest masterplan from 2018 thrown in the bin by looks.