Birmingham Airport Cargo Operations

[Ashley.S.]

@TM3 if you have any issues, please direct message the team, who will be more than happy to discuss the reasons for deletion. It is not up for discussion here in the open forum.

Thanks

 

[GliderPilot]

It's all down to negotiations isn't it, for Air China, realistically, does it make that much of a difference whether their 777F operates into MAN or BHX? In terms of where their cargo ends up once it's offloaded, and where anything going the other way is sourced from, I suspect wouldn't have too much of an influence. The UK is (relatively) tiny, especially compared to China, for example. Most things you can get from one side of the country to another within 24 hours anyway. I think an example of this would be the 747 services BHX now has that were originally operating into LHR, I'm sure the end destination of the cargo won't have changed that significantly to be the only driving factor to move the service slightly north.

What will matter to them is the operating costs of the route and maximising its profitability, and they absolutely will acquire slots at different airports to try and drive costs down during negotiations pitting the different offers against each other, it's standard in any industry for any business to try and get the best deal.

The thing I'll admit I'm slightly baffled by is why this is being considered for MAN and not EMA. EMA is owned by the MAG group and is a cargo hub, it's between both of these economically fruitful regions and all the ground agents there will have the equipment to handle a 777F and then some. So it's surprising to see it not being at least touted about this, you'd think the MAG group would have their high-vis on and marshalling paddles out pointing straight at EMA. I'm sure those of you with links ITK would be able to give some logic and reasoning behind that.

I've learnt with time from those who are wiser on the forum not to buy into anything until there are wheels on the ground at BHX, such is the harsh, cutthroat and non-stop rapid evolution nature of the industry. I'd love to see an Air China 777F at BHX, I'm too cynical to have any confidence in it though.

 

[TM3]

Given that some routes out of MAN are supported by good cargo revenues it seems to me that there is likely to be some horse trading that goes on over cargos that may be to the detriment of EMA.

MAG management would no doubt also love to see Air China passenger services at MAN.

 

[Aviador]

We always assume it's what our own region has to offer that is the driver of a decision to fly a particular route. Catchment areas, trade etc but it will also depend on the destination and the need for any such route at that end. It takes two to tango as they say.

 

[Nethercote2019]

It's all down to negotiations isn't it, for Air China, realistically, does it make that much of a difference whether their 777F operates into MAN or BHX? In terms of where their cargo ends up once it's offloaded, and where anything going the other way is sourced from, I suspect wouldn't have too much of an influence. The UK is (relatively) tiny, especially compared to China, for example. Most things you can get from one side of the country to another within 24 hours anyway. I think an example of this would be the 747 services BHX now has that were originally operating into LHR, I'm sure the end destination of the cargo won't have changed that significantly to be the only driving factor to move the service slightly north.

What will matter to them is the operating costs of the route and maximising its profitability, and they absolutely will acquire slots at different airports to try and drive costs down during negotiations pitting the different offers against each other, it's standard in any industry for any business to try and get the best deal.

The thing I'll admit I'm slightly baffled by is why this is being considered for MAN and not EMA. EMA is owned by the MAG group and is a cargo hub, it's between both of these economically fruitful regions and all the ground agents there will have the equipment to handle a 777F and then some. So it's surprising to see it not being at least touted about this, you'd think the MAG group would have their high-vis on and marshalling paddles out pointing straight at EMA. I'm sure those of you with links ITK would be able to give some logic and reasoning behind that.

I've learnt with time from those who are wiser on the forum not to buy into anything until there are wheels on the ground at BHX, such is the harsh, cutthroat and non-stop rapid evolution nature of the industry. I'd love to see an Air China 777F at BHX, I'm too cynical to have any confidence in it though.

It’s been a long time coming … or not !
On other sites this is being mentioned BUT NOW operating to Manchester …. I’m pretty sure it was previously mentioned to be going to STN, I’m surprised EMA haven’t had a mention !

 

[Seasider]

They are probably trying to get the best deal. Cargo isn't bothered which airport it transits through, but passengers do.

 

[IanFarquharson]

It's all down to negotiations isn't it, for Air China, realistically, does it make that much of a difference whether their 777F operates into MAN or BHX? In terms of where their cargo ends up once it's offloaded, and where anything going the other way is sourced from, I suspect wouldn't have too much of an influence. The UK is (relatively) tiny, especially compared to China, for example. Most things you can get from one side of the country to another within 24 hours anyway. I think an example of this would be the 747 services BHX now has that were originally operating into LHR, I'm sure the end destination of the cargo won't have changed that significantly to be the only driving factor to move the service slightly north.

What will matter to them is the operating costs of the route and maximising its profitability, and they absolutely will acquire slots at different airports to try and drive costs down during negotiations pitting the different offers against each other, it's standard in any industry for any business to try and get the best deal.

The thing I'll admit I'm slightly baffled by is why this is being considered for MAN and not EMA. EMA is owned by the MAG group and is a cargo hub, it's between both of these economically fruitful regions and all the ground agents there will have the equipment to handle a 777F and then some. So it's surprising to see it not being at least touted about this, you'd think the MAG group would have their high-vis on and marshalling paddles out pointing straight at EMA. I'm sure those of you with links ITK would be able to give some logic and reasoning behind that.

I've learnt with time from those who are wiser on the forum not to buy into anything until there are wheels on the ground at BHX, such is the harsh, cutthroat and non-stop rapid evolution nature of the industry. I'd love to see an Air China 777F at BHX, I'm too cynical to have any confidence in it though.

Looks like BHX have turned away Air China due to large numbers of B744's recently with a third operator starting Saturday evening using YR-FSA

 

[rollo]

Looks like BHX have turned away Air China due to large numbers of B744's recently with a third operator starting Saturday evening using YR-FSA

It's good to hear of a third operator from China starting but I'm surprised that BHX would turn down s twice weekly 777F of Air China as it might open the door a little for the commencement of future passenger services.

I'm absolutely not doubting the reason you give but have you further detail of the reasoning by BHX just seems a bit puzzling to me?

 

[GliderPilot]

It's good to here ot a third operator from China starting but I'm surprised that BHX would turn down s twice weekly 777F of Air China as it might open the door a little for the commencement of future passenger services.

I'm absolutely not doubting the reason you give but have you further detail of the reasoning by BHX just seems a bit puzzling to me?

I'd tend to agree with this, though the 747 services are great I get the feeling they won't be around forever. I doubt the services would ever overlap either. There must be more to it than BHX turning their nose up at it, don't bite your nose to spite your face and all that...

 

[CL44]

Please bear in mind that there is more to BHX "turning away" business than just letting the Aircraft land. If the infrastructure for handling the flight is not there (manpower / equipment etc) then the unloading / re-loading would be delayed which will cast a shadow on what BHX can offer service wise. We have two bonded warehouses suitable to rotate cargo and they have to look after all the Airlines that serve the Airport for cargo. Each warehouse has a finite amount of space and availability. It takes a very brave person to decide that a flight cannot be handled without upsetting the regular clients. LHR have enough issues at present with waiting times to collect (and deliver) into warehouses and look how many warehouses / handling agents they have.

Whilst yes the Air China would have been great coming to BHX we have to ensure that the other Airlines we have on a daily basis are served as well. You cannot have everything all the time (much as we would all like to).

 

[Kevin Farnell]

We have two bonded warehouses suitable to rotate cargo and they have to look after all the Airlines that serve the Airport for cargo.

Does that include cargo such as that carried in the belly hold of the EK B777?

If the infrastructure for handling the flight is not there (manpower / equipment etc) then the unloading / re-loading would be delayed which will cast a shadow on what BHX can offer service wise.

I guess that the only alternative to that, would be to build extra facilities, but for that the airport would have to be very confident of long term cargo business, otherwise it would be a very expensive gamble.

 

[CL44]

Hi Kevin. Yes that includes the belly cargo on such carriers as EK / QR / SV / TUI etc. It also includes any cargo received at BHX to transfer to LHR / MAN etc.

As you say the only alternative would be to build more facilities but this is not the "Field of Dreams". If you build it you have got to be certain that it will be used. Not only that but you need to ensure that you have the people qualified to build pallets / screen cargo / handle dangerous goods checks etc.

This is an issue at present as the training for screening cargo and dangerous goods checks etc are regular courses with on the job training under supervision. For my part I do a Dangerous Goods course every 2 years (having done 22 of them so far but have only been working 40 years!).

An empty warehouse with no staff trained to handle cargo would be one of the most useless things you can think of.

 

[GliderPilot]

Please bear in mind that there is more to BHX "turning away" business than just letting the Aircraft land. If the infrastructure for handling the flight is not there (manpower / equipment etc) then the unloading / re-loading would be delayed which will cast a shadow on what BHX can offer service wise. We have two bonded warehouses suitable to rotate cargo and they have to look after all the Airlines that serve the Airport for cargo. Each warehouse has a finite amount of space and availability. It takes a very brave person to decide that a flight cannot be handled without upsetting the regular clients. LHR have enough issues at present with waiting times to collect (and deliver) into warehouses and look how many warehouses / handling agents they have.

Whilst yes the Air China would have been great coming to BHX we have to ensure that the other Airlines we have on a daily basis are served as well. You cannot have everything all the time (much as we would all like to).

That explains the "more to it" then concerning max warehouse capacity. Still, a part of me thinks BHX has its eggs in the wrong basket by selecting/entertaining these ad-hoc services rather than a scheduled service provided by an airline that could then potentially provide a passenger service. I say that with consideration for how long BHX has been pursuing a regular link to China with both China Southern and Hainan trialling BHX in the past but never starting a regular service, often choosing other competing airports in the UK, I'd be bending over backwards to get this airline on the deck.

I don't have the numbers nor do I work at BHX so of course there are commercial reasons for these decisions, but it still seems odd.

 

[IanFarquharson]

Sorry my fault just to clarify, BHX has not turned them away it is the cargo operations that are stretched due to near daily 744's plus ad-hoc freight, warehousing also an issue.
Cargo has gone from to strength at BHX which is fantastic to see bearing in mind EMA is up the road.
Air China have looked at STN, BHX (flights on screens for months) and now turned to MAN

 

[GliderPilot]

Sorry my fault just to clarify, BHX has not turned them away it is the cargo operations that are stretched due to near daily 744's plus ad-hoc freight, warehousing also an issue.
Cargo has gone from to strength at BHX which is fantastic to see bearing in mind EMA is up the road.
Air China have looked at STN, BHX (flights on screens for months) and now turned to MAN

Thanks for clarifying Ian that makes sense, I couldn't believe what I was reading if BHX would completely turn Air China away

 

[IanFarquharson]

Air China Cargo service is a great coup for Manchester and well done to them for securing it.

The trade press (see below) were expecting BHX and slots of appeared for months but it was not to be due the success of the B744 operations now at BHX putting pressure on ramp and storage on the Elmdon side.


Meanwhile, another Chinese operator has been rumoured to start freighter operations to Birmingham in the UK.

Following an enquiry by The Loadstar today, a spokesperson for BHX said: “Air China Cargo is planning to run Beijing-Guangzhou-Birmingham services on a B777-F aircraft three times a week. We expect to see these in play this side of Christmas.”

Ian Farquharson

 

[Nethercote2019]

Do any of the 747 flights carry freight From BHX ?
Also with the ongoing Suez Canal issue the need for more flown freight may be needed in general for U.K.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Do any of the 747 flights carry freight From BHX ?
Also with the ongoing Suez Canal issue the need for more flown freight may be needed in general for U.K.

I don't know for sure, if the 747's uplift cargo from BHX, but I don't think so. All the flights inbound from HKG, have an intermediate stop and I noticed that the ROM Cargo B747 from HKG flew at FL300, indicating it was very heavy. It flew back to HKG direct.
As for extra cargo flights to the UK due to the Suez Canal problem, it would take many, many flights just to replace one cargo ship. So, if this were to happen, I think it would only be for very high value items.

 

[CL44]

As for extra cargo flights to the UK due to the Suez Canal problem, it would take many, many flights just to replace one cargo ship. So, if this were to happen, I think it would only be for very high value items.

Most Shipping Lines have diverted their services around Africa (not all but most) meaning an extra 7-10 days on transit times with increased charges accordingly. Whilst not the best situation (especially for getting goods to the Middle East) it still works out cheaper than moving by Airfreight. Bearing in mind that some of the Vessels moving around the world can take up to 12000+ containers, as Kevin mentioned it would take a fleet of Aircraft to replace 1 x Vessel (and that would be for general goods which would fit on board the flight). Considering that most Lines will also move out of guage cargo as well as normal containers sometimes there is no real alternative available but to use the Ships. I do feel sorry for Egypt on this matter as they do miss out on a lot of revenue from Lines not using the Suez Canal. Until the situation settles down (if it can ever settle down) I can see this affecting trade lanes for quite some time.

 

[GliderPilot]

Air China 77F showing as departing BHX on Monday at 10.35am to Guangzhou. No arrival showing yet.

Just a reminder of what could've been I'd imagine as others have stated, but plenty of other stuff to look at with all these other cargo frames moving through. Its great!