Birmingham: General Airport Discussion & Updates

[thunderchild]

The runway extension opens in June, Biman begin in around the same month

I think it's safe to say Biman won't be happening anytime soon, if ever.

 

[Ray Finkle]

BHX's fees have risen again.

A fee of £11.40 is payable per departing passenger from the Airport (excluding children under 2 years of age) on air transport aircraft movements including charter and air taxi aircraft.

The charge per departing passenger for ground handling systems is £0.19.

The charge per departing bag for baggage reconciliation system is £0.15.

The charge per departing passenger for hold baggage screening equipment is £0.30.

The charge per departing passenger for CAA Aviation Security Charge is £0.049.

Runway charges standard charge £10.33 per tonne or part. A surcharge of £500.00, plus a further £150.00 per full decibel over 90 dB(A),

Navigation services at Birmingham Airport are provided by ‘National Air Traffic Services Limited’. The charge for this service is £3.51 per tonne (or part) on all departures based upon the Maximum Take-Off Weight.

Parking charges

Not over 3.5 tonnes £2.90.................... per 1/2 tonne
Not over 10 tonnes £21.05.................. flat rate
Not over 20 tonnes £39.30.................. flat rate
Not over 30 tonnes £58.70.................. flat rate
Not over 100 tonnes £58.70.................. + £11.85 per 10 tonnes (or part over 30 tonnes)
Over 100 tonnes £141.70................ + £10.75 per 10 tonnes (or part over 100 tonnes)
During any period of parking, the Airport reserves the right to require that the aircraft be moved to a different location upon the site at the aircraft operator’s expense.

Provision of ground power to aircraft is charged per departing ATM. £14.50/£29.50x2.

http://www.birminghamairport.co.uk/meta ... arges.aspx

 

[Aviador]

Those will be the published fees all airports display on there website. Airports do tend to do separate deals with airlines where the published fees won't be taken into account.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Here's Manchester's for comparison.

PFC Rates for Standard Periods

1 April 2014 to 30 April 2014 £5.28
1 May 2014 to 31 October 2014 £9.06
1 November 2014 to 31 March 2015 £5.28

Where passengers are transported by bus to an Aircraft parked on a stand that is identified as a Remote Stand (because the passengers are unable to walk to the Aircraft from the terminal) a reduction of £0.75 per departing passenger will be applied to the applicable PFC.

PFC Rates for Off-Peak Periods vary from £2.66 - £4.86

Passenger security charge £4.64

Runway charge £7.55 in summer, £6.96 in winter. Off peak charges £6.14 summer, £5.66 winter. Freight aircraft £6.09 peak, £3.15 off peak.

Air traffic service charge first 120T £2.87 thereafter £1.58

Parking sees first four hours free then daily rates from £28 up to £273 depending on aircraft size.


http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/manw ... gesArchive

 

[Ray Finkle]

Those will be the published fees all airports display on there website. Airports do tend to do separate deals with airlines where the published fees won't be taken into account.

Most definitely but these published fees will be a starting point and if you're offering a potential 777 operator 50% off then that still amounts to just over £4k at BHX compared to around £2k at MAN.

Rack rate or rack off

Intriguingly, Birmingham has opted not to follow the example of Manchester, which it considers has ‘prostituted itself’ by going back to Ryanair to do a deal that might just see Manchester become ‘Stansted North’ if indications on future route growth are cemented. Although Ryanair did set up a base at Birmingham several years ago, and a while before it did so at Manchester, Birmingham’s (first) Ryanair Dublin route pre-dated the O’Leary era at the Irish LCC and the charging rate offered to it then was ‘rack rate’. The Birmingham management sees no reason to change that now. If Ryanair wants to grow there it is more than welcome to; but at rack rate. There will be no red lights hanging in the business development office windows.

http://www.centreforaviation.com/analys ... oint-74418

 

[User0001]

Slightly off topic, and this is aimed at the person from BHX making the quote, not a MAN vs BHX sentiment but:

Intriguingly, Birmingham has opted not to follow the example of Manchester, which it considers has ‘prostituted itself’ by going back to Ryanair to do a deal that might just see Manchester become ‘Stansted North’ if indications on future route growth are cemented.

Michael O'Leary publicly stated he was paying more to use MAN this time around than when Ryanair pulled all but one route last time.

There will be no red lights hanging in the business development office windows.

Its a shame they stooped to such a low use of words. All I will say is, that if they deem this to be their true feelings regarding MAN, then MAN clearly had the last laugh. Not only are they raking in the routes, but also still paying large dividends to the councils, buying STN and raising money for new terminal and airport developments.

Does that sound like an airport that has prostituted itself?

 

[Ray Finkle]

I agree, if those comments were definitely made then it's rather pathetic and quite frankly embarrassing. MAN has had a spectacular few months and should be congratulated, yet at BHX they can't even get two well established airlines in UA and EK to increase capacity or one of the UK's biggest holiday companies in Thomson to add capacity to one of the most popular leisure destinations in Florida. Why?

So if Manchester can offer fees as low as they are (which undoubtedly are a factor in the expansion seen) and still make money why can't BHX even price itself somewhere between the two? I'd rather this not turn into a MAN vs BHX debate but the airport management should be looking north to both MAN and EDI and wondering how/why the raft of recent expansion has completely passed them by. As the saying goes If you keep on doing what you've always done, you'll keep on getting what you've always got.

 

[User0001]

I'd rather this not turn into a MAN vs BHX debate

Unfortunately with the comments at hand being made, it would be very hard for this not to come across as MAN vs BHX.

yet at BHX they can't even get two well established airlines in UA and EK to increase capacity or one of the UK's biggest holiday companies in Thomson to add capacity to one of the most popular leisure destinations in Florida. Why

I honestly think the routes team at BHX must be very weak, its the only thing I can think of? Save for a few routes from Flybe and Aegean, this year has been a very damp squib compared to what I was expecting from BHX.

With the new runway extension, I honestly thought BHX would be announcing new routes out of their ears. Not necessarily long haul, but, just plenty of routes to really bring in the extension with a bang. They could have been very clever with the routes too.
I expected TAP at the very least, to bring in not only Lisbon, but Brazil too. I expected Finnair for Helsinki and connections to China and Japan. Thus, bringing in valuable connections to the markets they tout as so viable to BHX and the new extension.
At the very very least, I expected Emirates to get on board by bringing in the A380. Not only do they get advertising, but, Paul Kehoe could say 'look, we promised you the big jets and long haul flights'.

I can only assume the hard sell is the weak link in the routes team. We hear that they go on plenty of jollies to China, Chicago, the routes events and so on, but so far, all they have mustered up are 3 charter flights to China.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there Ray and useroo1 and others, as i have said it before and i'll say it again, while Keogh and his weak management team are running the airport, and persistantly keep offering these ridiculously high charges that they won't back down on as reduce to a sensible offer, no airline will want to come into Birmingham Airport at all. Simply because if airlines are being charged £4,000 per aircraft landing at Birmingham Airport Manchester Airport is charging £2,000 per aircraft landing, then there's your answer, if your being offered £2,000 pound less at another airport, then your going to go where its cheaper and not dearer. As well as that runway charges of £7.55 in summer & £6.96 in winter at Manchester, wheres as £10.33p standard rate @ Birmingham, again your going to going to Manchester and not Birmingham instead simply because runway charges at Manchester are £4.00 odd cheaper in the summer and £3.37 cheaper in the winter, again your going to go to Manchester, and that's why Birmingham is always losing out to other airports because its not following what other airports are doing, because Birmingham keeps thinking that it's a hub airport like Heathrow when it will never be a hub airport only a small regional.....andyc

 

[Ray Finkle]

At the very very least, I expected Emirates to get on board by bringing in the A380. Not only do they get advertising, but, Paul Kehoe could say 'look, we promised you the big jets and long haul flights'.

Likewise although I'd expected a couple of new routes I had Emirates as a banker to do something, the free publicity they could have received would have been phenomenal.

Hi there Ray and useroo1 and others, as i have said it before and i'll say it again, while Keogh and his weak management team are running the airport, and persistantly keep offering these ridiculously high charges that they won't back down on as reduce to a sensible offer, no airline will want to come into Birmingham Airport at all. Simply because if airlines are being charged £4,000 per aircraft landing at Birmingham Airport Manchester Airport is charging £2,000 per aircraft landing, then there's your answer, if your being offered £2,000 pound less at another airport, then your going to go where its cheaper and not dearer. As well as that runway charges of £7.55 in summer & £6.96 in winter at Manchester, wheres as £10.33p standard rate @ Birmingham, again your going to going to Manchester and not Birmingham instead simply because runway charges at Manchester are £4.00 odd cheaper in the summer and £3.37 cheaper in the winter, again your going to go to Manchester, and that's why Birmingham is always losing out to other airports because its not following what other airports are doing, because Birmingham keeps thinking that it's a hub airport like Heathrow when it will never be a hub airport only a small regional.....andyc

I don't see how there can be any doubt the high fees are an obstacle for new routes, especially long haul where margins can be fragile at the best of times, too many different airlines have stated it as a factor for it not to be true, but going by recent articles the money rolls in, shareholders get big bonuses and the boss received a £50k pay rise so I can't see it changing anytime soon.

I can only assume the hard sell is the weak link in the routes team. We hear that they go on plenty of jollies to China, Chicago, the routes events and so on, but so far, all they have mustered up are 3 charter flights to China.

I hope there has been an inquest going on somewhere, nice trips around the world on expenses are great but if there are no results from it then questions need to be asked. The next few months could have been a time of maximum publicity to announce new routes, a chance for BHX to shout to the world that it was about to become a serious player, as it stands we've got a perpetually delayed will they won't they 2x weekly to JFK and three charter flights.

 

[User0001]

Likewise although I'd expected a couple of new routes I had Emirates as a banker to do something, the free publicity they could have received would have been phenomenal.

Emirates have never been shy of publicity. At MAN, they donated a substantial amount to a local charity to be the first to use the 2nd runway.

I hope there has been an inquest going on somewhere, nice trips around the world on expenses are great but if there are no results from it then questions need to be asked

Certainly does need questions! When William Pearson joined the BHX team I honestly thought BHX would have been onto a winner, and initially there was a small flurry of routes announced. Now I think it must be the team, as MAN has never been in a better position new routes wise, yet BHX has stagnated. Sometimes its not about the leader, but the ability of the team, and it seems William Pearson was blessed with a good team at MAN which in turn made him look good too.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Does anyone know how much autonomy the management team has at BHX?

It was widely reported, for instance, that under the Spanish group Abertis regime at Cardiff the airport management had to refer almost everything to Spain that entailed spending more than a bit of petty cash.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Does anyone know how much autonomy the management team has at BHX?

It'd be interesting to know.

I'd hate to be slating Mr Kehoe & Co if their hands are tied from above.

 

[dazzler]

Slightly off topic, and this is aimed at the person from BHX making the quote, not a MAN vs BHX sentiment but:

Intriguingly, Birmingham has opted not to follow the example of Manchester, which it considers has ‘prostituted itself’ by going back to Ryanair to do a deal that might just see Manchester become ‘Stansted North’ if indications on future route growth are cemented.

Michael O'Leary publicly stated he was paying more to use MAN this time around than when Ryanair pulled all but one route last time.

There will be no red lights hanging in the business development office windows.

Its a shame they stooped to such a low use of words. All I will say is, that if they deem this to be their true feelings regarding MAN, then MAN clearly had the last laugh. Not only are they raking in the routes, but also still paying large dividends to the councils, buying STN and raising money for new terminal and airport developments.

Does that sound like an airport that has prostituted itself?

These words are poorly chosen but were they not written almost two years ago ?

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there Ray, if you think, that if Birmingham were to match and offer the same as Manchester does for there fees, then all these airlines would be queing up wanting to fly from Birmingham. But until Keogh wakes and looks and follows Manchesters prime example of attracting business watching it grow from nothing to now 20 million plus, then all Birmingham will struggle to achieve is breaking the 10 million bracket, while Manchester forges ahead with possibly another runway in the next few years, where by its passenger numbers will pass Gatwicks of 35 million a year. Because i can see Manchester really forging ahead with its investment and expansion so much, that in the next 10 to 15 years, Manchester will be scratching at the heels of Heathrow....this is how i think it will be...Birmingham will find it very hard to even handle 15 or even 20 million, because there won't be the airlines avaliable..unless something pretty damm dramatic happens soon.....andyc

 

[Hassaan]

Hi there Ray, if you think, that if Birmingham were to match and offer the same as Manchester does for there fees, then all these airlines would be queing up wanting to fly from Birmingham. But until Keogh wakes and looks and follows Manchesters prime example of attracting business watching it grow from nothing to now 20 million plus, then all Birmingham will struggle to achieve is breaking the 10 million bracket, while Manchester forges ahead with possibly another runway in the next few years, where by its passenger numbers will pass Gatwicks of 35 million a year. Because i can see Manchester really forging ahead with its investment and expansion so much, that in the next 10 to 15 years, Manchester will be scratching at the heels of Heathrow....this is how i think it will be...Birmingham will find it very hard to even handle 15 or even 20 million, because there won't be the airlines avaliable..unless something pretty damm dramatic happens soon.....andyc

Well, passenger numbers have been on the up for two years now so I think 2008's record can at least be matched.

BHX can currently handle 17 million passengers with the current terminal. It's not doing anything near that, though. I do think fees are a factor in airlines not wishing to fly from here but that's one of many.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Hi there Ray, if you think, that if Birmingham were to match and offer the same as Manchester does for there fees, then all these airlines would be queing up wanting to fly from Birmingham. But until Keogh wakes and looks and follows Manchesters prime example of attracting business watching it grow from nothing to now 20 million plus, then all Birmingham will struggle to achieve is breaking the 10 million bracket, while Manchester forges ahead with possibly another runway in the next few years, where by its passenger numbers will pass Gatwicks of 35 million a year. Because i can see Manchester really forging ahead with its investment and expansion so much, that in the next 10 to 15 years, Manchester will be scratching at the heels of Heathrow....this is how i think it will be...Birmingham will find it very hard to even handle 15 or even 20 million, because there won't be the airlines avaliable..unless something pretty damm dramatic happens soon.....andyc

I think there's no doubt that there would be more interested airlines and more routes from existing carriers if BHX lowered fees, all too often it's been cited as a major reason to either stay away (Easyjet) or stagnate (Air Transat etc...) but when all is said and done the airport company is a business and businesses are there to make money, something which BHX appears to do very well. I think TheLocalYokel made the point about how much influence does Mr Kehoe actually have over fees? I don't know, it could well be that those above him set the parameters and he and his team just have to do their best, if so then I think he deserves a big pat on the back. Of course if it's ever revealed that he himself sets the limits then the criticism would be deserved.

Manchester's cheaper fees will no doubt make it 'safer' airport to launch new routes or engage in expansion but that is only one piece of the puzzle. Over the last 30 years or so whilst BHX has been full of bickering and parochial infighting MAN has gone ahead and worked very hard to put in place the infrastructure which it has today and is now reaping the rewards, non more so than this year where they have a phenomenal amount of new routes starting. There is also, as they say, location, location, location. MAN sits in the 'goldilocks' zone not really competing that much with LHR whereas BHX competes with both, and one of those is the busiest international airport in the world. Manchester also has the sizeable cities of Liverpool, Sheffield, Leeds, Bradford whilst BHX has Leicester, Nottingham and Derby, you may also count Bristol and South Wales but London would be just as convenient. To me the MAN catchment area is also more 'realistic' than the BHX one, 3/4 of the population may well live within a two hour drive of Birmingham but for a significant amount of those LHR will be their local and I'd say it's more realistic that someone from the likes of Barnsley would drive to MAN to catch a flight to, say, New York than someone from London would drive to Birmingham to do the same. Basic geography will always give MAN an edge, especially when it come to long haul.

BHX & MAN both made the mistake of stubbornly clinging on to BA shunning the Loco's and we all know what happened. MAN now seems to have realised that this is an area where you can achieve significant growth in a short period of time and, although late, it's now well and truly at the party. Sadly I don't see any signs of BHX arriving anytime soon and going by recent comments about other airports 'prostituting' themselves and the infamous 'rack rate' then it doesn't appear things are about to change.

Shouting from the rooftops about three charters to Beijing is great and it makes the headlines, but there is so much of the basic bread and butter stuff that BHX really needs to improve on, sooner rather than later.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I noticed today that the Thomson check in/bag drop has moved to T2, check in desks 100-114 and Ryanair have moved into T1, desks 24-28. It seems a bit odd seeing as they both use the opposite terminal, it's also quite a reduction in desks for Ryanair but I guess more can easily be opened up when needed.

 

[Brum X]

I noticed today that the Thomson check in/bag drop has moved to T2, check in desks 100-114 and Ryanair have moved into T1, desks 24-28. It seems a bit odd seeing as they both use the opposite terminal, it's also quite a reduction in desks for Ryanair but I guess more can easily be opened up when needed.

To me BHX still feels like a 2 terminal operation.

 

[Ray Finkle]

It does to me also, that's why I still refer to them as T1 & T2.