Birmingham: (BHX) - General Thread

[rollo]

An excellent argument put forward by nwoody with which I pretty much completely agree with but one thing is bugging me is the old chestnut of BHX to Orlando.

Over recent years BHX has had a single summer only weekly service byTUI while Virgin for example operate(d) up to double daily 747s from MAN year round and similar from London so surely they could see a large demand from BHXs catchment yet show no interest at all. Additionally there are/were large operations to Florida from Manchester and Gatwick/ Heathrow by the likes of TUI,TCX plus BA and others who would inevitably also be attracting many Brummies which Virgin would aware of.

I can only assume Virgin are happy with what they have and the fact that so many Midlanders are prepared to travel up or down the motorway for a couple of hours.

 

[Jerry]

Over recent years BHX has had a single summer only weekly service byTUI while Virgin for example operate(d) up to double daily 747s from MAN year round and similar from London so surely they could see a large demand from BHXs catchment yet show no interest at all. Additionally there are/were large operations to Florida from Manchester and Gatwick/ Heathrow by the likes of TUI,TCX plus BA and others who would inevitably also be attracting many Brummies which Virgin would aware of.

For based UK airlines it might be a bit different in that they would have to either base an aircraft or position one in place either via a W pattern or positioning flight whereas the likes of Emirates or Cathay Pacific don't have to do that.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Orlando is the prime example of let the customers travel to us, I refuse to believe that BHX cannot profitably support more than one direct flight per week. Emirates and to a lesser extent Qatar are after large volumes of transit traffic and have the network to support it, they even serve NCL (5mppa) and CWL (1.6mppa). For years we've had interviews at route conferences mentioning demand to such places Hong Kong, Singapore, Bangkok and Mumbai yet we're still waiting. Birmingham was even mentioned as the second biggest unserved market from HKG but a direct flight never happened.

I totally agree about short/medium haul hubs and the data they may bring but I'd argue that they've always been a strong point of BHX? There aren't many places that can boast multiple daily flights with Lufthansa, Brussels, Austrian, Air France, KLM, Swiss, Turkish Airlines, SAS, Aer Lingus, Emirates and Qatar yet despite that BHX has been losing long haul routes not gaining them. It's the loco flights and destinations that BHX seems to lack.

Getting people to choose a longer journey time by making a connection, often paying more for it, over a direct flight from LHR has always been a tough ask. Paul Kehoe said that they were trying to change human behaviour and that is a very difficult thing to do.

 

[JENNYJET]

It has been a while but I think as I always do, independent travel agents are more likely to enable a flight from Birmingham instead of forcing a trip North or South to a more fashionable or profitable departure point. I can understand the chains selling their own seats with parent carrier and sadly, customers swallow the guff and accept it. It is this attitude that led me to Kuoni, they always moved the Earth to get me a flight that was NOT brochured, a phone call and the booking was secured!

 

[Nethercote2019]

I think a lot was down to how much commission was paid !

 

[JENNYJET]

Quite possibly, at the least I did not get a "The computer says no" rather a " Do you have a preference for airline? ".

 

[Matty_85]

I agree we want MAN & London airports to be successful too with airlines but the reality is we don’t want them poaching passengers who would have otherwise flew from BHX. Airlines manage to build a base knowing BHXs catchment will travel to another airport so where’s the incentive to establish themselves here? I really think we need to demand better (by which our airport leaders need to).

Despite covid MAN has managed to replace Thomas Cook US flights in just over a year. Birmingham lost AA, United (I’ve read a proposed double daily Monarch?) and primera air. Yet we couldn’t convince Norwegian, JetBlue, BIMAN (connection route to JFK) & now Aer lingus. I know we don’t have the resources like Manchester but we do have the catchment & potential for a much larger slice of the long haul market (& short haul for that matter)

 

[JENNYJET]

America's finest have been and gone and Britain's finest are not interested leaving the Asian and European operators to open a link accross to pond but the new ultra efficient twinjets have removed the need for staging posts. Not everything modern is good but is fact and we adapt.

 

[HPsauce]

We certainly won't be getting any long distance routes from Norwegian. They have just abandoned all long haul routes. 1100 people losing jobs. They will concentrate on European operations.

 

[JENNYJET]

They, and other operators, will take lessons from this but I think low cost long haul could work. Instead of owning or leasing a shiny new aircraft why not enter arrangements with established airlines and block book sections of cabins for no frills passengers, closed off from full fare with separate boarding so the major operating costs are carried by the airline with the AOC?

 

[Coathanger16]

We certainly won't be getting any long distance routes from Norwegian. They have just abandoned all long haul routes. 1100 people losing jobs. They will concentrate on European operations.

No long haul, but they are focussing more on their European operation, so fingers crossed we may get some Scandinavian routes from them.

Oslo, Stockholm & Helsinki would do well with 3/4 flights a week I'd have thought (once recoveries well underway).

 

[jfy1999]

They, and other operators, will take lessons from this but I think low cost long haul could work. Instead of owning or leasing a shiny new aircraft why not enter arrangements with established airlines and block book sections of cabins for no frills passengers, closed off from full fare with separate boarding so the major operating costs are carried by the airline with the AOC?

Interesting idea. Code sharing between LCCs and “legacy” airlines already works on short haul in a few cases such as with the IAG group of airlines. But in that particular case the economy product on the “legacy” airlines is becoming pretty indistinguishable from a no frills airline anyway. It would likely add extra cost and logistical issues with crew for both companies to keep switching the economy product from no-frills to full service on an ad hoc basis.

I’d say the biggest issue would be that the full service airline would want financial compensation from the low cost carrier to make up for the revenue that the full service airline would otherwise have made selling full service economy tickets. I doubt a full service airline would be willing to let the low cost airline block book tickets below the full service economy rate, in which case the low cost airline would be loss making if it sold on the seats for a lower price.

 

[JENNYJET]

Yes JFY, but if such seats were sold as premium by the low cost outfit then the carrier could match economy accordingly. Whatever arrangements, the tickets would be marketed by the low cost outfit as a cheap offer compared to standard but without the usual benefits of full service such as baggage allowance, alternative flights within the main carrier and booking changes etc.!

 

[IanFarquharson]

Number of Air Transport Movements 14.01.21

LHR = 319

EMA = 122

STN = 96

LTN = 63

BHX = 54

MAN = 44

LGW = 41

BRS = 15

 

[JENNYJET]

Interesting to see BHX ahead of both Gatwick and Manchester, could that be fewer longhaul but more regional movements?

 

[HPsauce]

I suspect that would be down to the many smaller cargo aircraft we get. They have been a bonus in such quiet times.

 

[IanFarquharson]

Interesting to see BHX ahead of both Gatwick and Manchester, could that be fewer longhaul but more regional movements?

Purely down to cargo aircraft which BHX are encougaging but other airports are not !

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there all, so how does Birmingham Airport compete against Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester, Stansted and Luton, to handling 30 plus million passengers a year regularly....AndyC

 

[IanFarquharson]

Hi there all, so how does Birmingham Airport compete against Heathrow, Gatwick, Manchester, Stansted and Luton, to handling 30 plus million passengers a year regularly....AndyC

Andy

In my opinion BHX will never reach 30m pax, the masterplan quoted 18m by 2030 and this was before Covid was known about.

Manchester & Stansted were getting quite close to 30m before Covid but the pandemic as put aviation back years and I cannot see either of them hitting 30m in the next 10 years.

Luton was around 18m and Gatwick 46m.

We have discussed Birmingham at length before and it is simply stuck between a rock (London) and a hard place (Manchester) and most major airlines are always going to serve South and North and not a third airport in the middle.

Birmingham lost a lot of market share by not investing all those years ago when Manchester did build its infrastructure and finally Birmingham was too late with the low cost carriers protecting British Airways.

The rest is history !

 

[JENNYJET]

Okay, we can see why the airlines don't see BHX in the same light as MAN and LHR, so is there a good reason why Birmingham cannot stay as a decent regional with it's premium carriers and low cost mix whilst expanding it's GA offer inviting the world's executive fleet which includes privately owned airliners?

A separate fee structure with onsite maintenance and accommodation could be tempting for visitors of wealth to an expanding city for both business and leisure.