KLM

[LBAYORKIE]

It’s been suggested elsewhere that KLM are aware of the companies other obligations. Let’s not forget that they’ll be contracted to operate the football charters too. The question will be how long are KLM prepared to suffer from network disruption caused by an inability to build resilience into the operation?

As for the crew, let’s be real here the KLM contract goes they go with it. But I don’t see a favourable outcome for their feeder network if it happens, least not at the moment. Last I heard KLM are applying lots of pressure to take over the NWI operation too….

Applying pressure on whom?

 

[Finger66]

oh I really want to say something, but I really can’t.

Feel sorry for eastern crews as it’s not their fault. Who in there right mind sends an over booked E170 into LBA yesterday whilst the E190 went to Newcastle to operate a football charter to Luton.

You reallly couldn’t make this s—t up.

I took feel the same about saying something without being able to. It's really not too nice being caught on the hop

 

[Jerry]

Applying pressure on whom?

Eastern Airways

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Eastern Airways

Thats doesnt sound good. If they have to pressurise Eastern it suggests they arent ready to take on more routes.

 

[pug]

Applying pressure on whom?

As Jerry said above, they’ve been pressuring eastern to take on the NWI flights. I’m not convinced this is just about a pilot shortage or engine troubles - although no doubt this has exacerbated things, but they have such a large network within the U.K. and it must cost a fortune to hotac crew every night, the inability to recruit U.K. based crew must only add to this cost.

Just have a really bad feeling about it all if I’m honest.

Thats doesnt sound good. If they have to pressurise Eastern it suggests they arent ready to take on more routes.

Eastern have apparently been quite frank with them that they can’t establish more bases whilst they don’t even have the crew or capacity to adequately cover their current ones.

You might notice on the dried fruit forum that someone has checked the delays on the AMS services from various U.K. airports, there were quite high incidences of delays/cancellations at non eastern operated airports. Generally HUY and MME seem to be performing quite well when compared to the post covid KLC service. Of course you’ll have issues with tech aircraft which is quite common on the Ejet sadly.

Like I said previously it would be nice if KLM saw reason to buy a controlling share in T3 and run it as an arms length U.K. operation. Makes sense post Brexit if they’re serious about maintaining a large U.K. presence.

 

[LBA4EVER]

One question that keeps coming to mind is why is LBA not a klm mainline airport? Basically what does it take to become mainline, is it all about airport size and klm pax throughput at the airport?

 

[Jerry]

is it all about airport size

It's not about size as Aberdeen has mainline flights and Bristol doesn't. So i expect it'll be about the market of airport itself especially premium traffic.
But also it needs to be remembered that Cityhopper does operate to a lot of the big airports as well including Heathrow.

 

[scottrhino]

Thankfully KL1018 departed roughly on time for my daughter to make her KLM connection to Cape Town today for a business trip. Having read all the previous posts it was a fingers crossed job I won’t lie

 

[LBAYORKIE]

As Jerry said above, they’ve been pressuring eastern to take on the NWI flights. I’m not convinced this is just about a pilot shortage or engine troubles - although no doubt this has exacerbated things, but they have such a large network within the U.K. and it must cost a fortune to hotac crew every night, the inability to recruit U.K. based crew must only add to this cost.

Just have a really bad feeling about it all if I’m honest.


Eastern have apparently been quite frank with them that they can’t establish more bases whilst they don’t even have the crew or capacity to adequately cover their current ones.

You might notice on the dried fruit forum that someone has checked the delays on the AMS services from various U.K. airports, there were quite high incidences of delays/cancellations at non eastern operated airports. Generally HUY and MME seem to be performing quite well when compared to the post covid KLC service. Of course you’ll have issues with tech aircraft which is quite common on the Ejet sadly.

Like I said previously it would be nice if KLM saw reason to buy a controlling share in T3 and run it as an arms length U.K. operation. Makes sense post Brexit if they’re serious about maintaining a large U.K. presence.

In the meantime it sounds like travellers might be best advised to fly from HUY, MME or even MAN.

 

[pug]

In the meantime it sounds like travellers might be best advised to fly from HUY, MME or even MAN.

I couldn’t comment, all I’m posting is opinions based on information gleaned from people within.

What I will say is I used the service ex HUY back end of last year and it was the mainline service I was connecting to and from that had significant delays to the point I thought I’d miss my connection back to HUY. I had to run just to make it. Both Eastern flights on time.

Reason for the delays to mainline were slot problems both ways which knocks on to the operation. In this case it doesn’t matter whether you fly from LBA, MME, HUY or MAN but you’ll still be delayed.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I couldn’t comment, all I’m posting is opinions based on information gleaned from people within.

What I will say is I used the service ex HUY back end of last year and it was the mainline service I was connecting to and from that had significant delays to the point I thought I’d miss my connection back to HUY. I had to run just to make it. Both Eastern flights on time.

Reason for the delays to mainline were slot problems both ways which knocks on to the operation. In this case it doesn’t matter whether you fly from LBA, MME, HUY or MAN but you’ll still be delayed.

We have always been subject to that type of delay, its the additional ones that seem to have cropped up recently that we should be concerned about.

 

[jason1-11]

It was not due to go over to mainline, but the inbound/outbound morning service, was due to be operated by mainline. That did not happen because of covid which has killed off a lot of business travel so I believe that we should be grateful we still have a 3 daily service, even if it is not as good as previously.

Covid and the change in working habits may well have stifled business travel, but it certainly hasn’t affected the general numbers of passengers as the shift to leisure increases.

We purportedly have one of the largest catchment areas in the UK including some very wealthy areas, several top universities, various tourist attractions including a Premier League football team, and we should be grateful to have one full-service carrier being operated by a UK regional carrier. I appreciate the presence of Manchester, but still feel massively underwhelmed by the LBA offering. Let’s hope the new terminal can at least attract some different operators who can at least give KLM a run for their money.

 

[Jerry]

We purportedly have one of the largest catchment areas in the UK

It is though easy to get to other airports from it though. As an example recently my sister travelled to Rome via Heathrow. Her train left Leeds station about 08.30 for a 13.30 flight. She often uses Heathrow for work flights as well and Manchester, she's flying to Helsinki from Manchester later today.

 

[Aviador]

It is though easy to get to other airports from it though. As an example recently my sister travelled to Rome via Heathrow. Her train left Leeds station about 08.30 for a 13.30 flight. She often uses Heathrow for work flights as well and Manchester, she's flying to Helsinki from Manchester later today.

Reverse the journey and you can get to LBA in the same time. It's a pointless argument.

 

[Finger66]

The bottom line here is that we all know the service is not where it needs to be and also not where we would all like it to be. That is unfortunately down to a combination of factors: KLM challenges, T3 challenges and AMS current limitations/restrictions.

I, and clearly some others, still feel the better way KL will more likely do something about it is with competition on the route and perhaps at least 1 more hub alternative for competition.

Now depending on what you believe, KL are clearly aware of the situation, it's more about right here and right now what alternatives do they have? It doesn't appear to be many, if indeed any, but I would still say watch this space......

 

[LBAYORKIE]

The bottom line here is that we all know the service is not where it needs to be and also not where we would all like it to be. That is unfortunately down to a combination of factors: KLM challenges, T3 challenges and AMS current limitations/restrictions.

I, and clearly some others, still feel the better way KL will more likely do something about it is with competition on the route and perhaps at least 1 more hub alternative for competition.

Now depending on what you believe, KL are clearly aware of the situation, it's more about right here and right now what alternatives do they have? It doesn't appear to be many, if indeed any, but I would still say watch this space......

Competition from another hub (with ample connections) is the best hope, but if they don't have the aircraft or crews then it won't make any difference. Also we need to consider that having 2 carriers with hub connections might mean neither is viable.

 

[White Heather]

Competition from another hub (with ample connections) is the best hope, but if they don't have the aircraft or crews then it won't make any difference. Also we need to consider that having 2 carriers with hub connections might mean neither is viable.

We have had two for ages. Dublin is an Aer Lingus Hub offering LBA passengers various links to the USA and Canada. When we had BA to Heathrow, the KLM route still did very well and didn't suffer at all because of the BA/LHR option.

 

[Finger66]

Competition from another hub (with ample connections) is the best hope, but if they don't have the aircraft or crews then it won't make any difference. Also we need to consider that having 2 carriers with hub connections might mean neither is viable.

Whilst it's one obvious and valid viewpoint, competition does generally tend to grow a market, although of course there is a saturation point.

Please excuse the unreal numbers but of course LBA is never going to be handling 30mppa but if they are hoping/expecting to get to 7 or 8mppa then that's potential almost double, so those pax come from somewhere, and those almost certainly currently being lost to other airports.

But if people have choices, particularly with connections, whilst price will talk to some extent, they will be looking for reliability

 

[Jerry]

Reverse the journey and you can get to LBA in the same time. It's a pointless argument.

But LBA isn't Heathrow or MAN where the airlines are already established. This is a challenge all the small airports face unless they have distance or geography in favour. Its easy to get to bigger airports and airlines like BA, Air France, Lufthansa etc know that.

 

[Statto]

Also we need to consider that having 2 carriers with hub connections might mean neither is viable.

Honestly, we really don’t. The market for hub connections is huge and I’m pretty sure I shared the data a few weeks ago.