Potential Routes

[TheLocalYokel]

Thank you again.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

2019 New/Returned routes so far
NEW Dubrovnik TUI starts 2nd May
NEW Naples TUI starts 1st May
NEW Hurghada TUI starts 6th May
Returned Enfidha TUI and Thomas Cook starts 3rd April for Thomas Cook and 3rd May for TUI
Returned Malta Ryanair starts 3rd April

Prior to the Balkan Wars of the early 1990s most UK airports had summer charter flights to the former Yugoslavia, often with Yugotours on IT holidays (pretty cheap but good value I understood at the time although I never went there), and usually more than one a week to various Yugoslav airports. Yugoslav airlines such as JAT, Aviogenex and Inex-Adria were the usual carriers. Dubrovnik was one of several airports used and almost certainly CWL would have had flights to that airport in those days. I can't confirm 100% but it would be unlikely if it hadn't. CWL definitely had a summer Yugoslavia programme then.

 

[geoff]

You are correct TLY, in the 80's Jat used 727's and DC9's, Aviogenex used Tupelov 104's and Inex Adria also used DC9's. They flew to Pula, Dubrovnik, and Split, and were very popular.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

You are correct TLY, in the 80's Jat used 727's and DC9's, Aviogenex used Tupelov 104's and Inex Adria also used DC9's. They flew to Pula, Dubrovnik, and Split, and were very popular.

Many thanks for that confirmation, geoff.

 

[Jerry]

Cardiff Airport is attending World Routes 2018 alongside Visit Wales and Visit Britain.
https://twitter.com/Cardiff_Airport/status/1041643108822265857?s=19

 

[Jerry]

The Welsh government has applied for the previously mentioned PSO routes with Manchester top of the list.
https://www.walesonline.co.uk/business/business-news/new-cardiff-manchester-air-route-15164040

 

[Jerry]

If the UK government refused the Welsh government request for a PSO especially on the Manchester route is there a way the Welsh government could subsidise it itself if they think it's economically important enough?

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Why is CWL-MAN economically important?
It's not much quicker if you take the journey as being from Cardiff.
Cardiff-CWL 30 mins
At CWL for 1 hr
Flight 45 mins
Clear MAN 15 mins
Train into Manchester 20 mins
Total 2hr50 mins

Train from Cardiff central to Manchester Picadilly 3hr8 - 3h24 mins with an hourly service.

 

[Jerry]

Why is CWL-MAN economically important?.

I have no idea! If it is their number 1 target then the Welsh government must believe it would be economically beneficial for South Wales to be connected by air to Manchester.

 

[Jerry]

I am wondering if this has a connection to the rumours of Flybe basing a 4th aircraft as they have 3 routes that are double daily at a minimum Monday to Friday and 3 based aircraft so may want a 4th route they can operate at that frequency to base a 4th. Also Manchester is connected to all their other bases except Cardiff and Doncaster.

 

[superking]

I would like to see a pso to Manchester,but it will never operate as a pso route due to 2 good options. Option 1 is a good train service which is a route with lots of departures daily. Option 2 is a motorway which is just about motorway all the way except the Cardiff end and the Manchester end. The pso routes are checked very carefully for the options rather than a route operated by airlines.Time wise on these routes does not enter into it.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I would like to see a pso to Manchester,but it will never operate as a pso route due to 2 good options. Option 1 is a good train service which is a route with lots of departures daily. Option 2 is a motorway which is just about motorway all the way except the Cardiff end and the Manchester end. The pso routes are checked very carefully for the options rather than a route operated by airlines.Time wise on these routes does not enter into it.

Broadly the EC believes that any competing train route of three hours or less in duration at sufficient frequency would usually prevent an air PSO route being granted. Competing road connectivity seems more flexible in interpretation.

The rail interpretation would almost certainly prevent a Cardiff-London air PSO and Manchester is on the edge of it.

Routes such as Aberdeen or Glasgow, although already operated, could be considered because they are regarded as thin routes and a PSO could improve frequency. What has to be remembered though is that the WG is offering exclusivity on each of the proposed routes for four years (Inverness, Norwich, Humberside, Newquay and Leeds-Bradford are the others). The routes would have to go out to tender and it might be that someone other than Flybe (mentioned in the local press as the likely favourite) would win the tender for, say, Glasgow. That would mean Flybe having to come off the route for at least four years.

There is no doubt in my mind that the real reason for the initiative is to get rid of APD from these routes.

The Welsh Government still as to persuade the UK Government to support their plans and then the EC has to agree. However, the UK Government is publishing a Green Paper in which the future of PSO routes in the UK post Brexit will be considered. The regulations might be relaxed, or tightened or kept as they are. We don't know yet.

 

[Jerry]

The Welsh Government still as to persuade the UK Government to support their plans and then the EC has to agree.

I'd be very surprised if the UK government sent any recommendations on to the EU and it could be down to Brexit that they are applying now especially if the UK government changed the criteria and that makes CWL ineligable in the future?

The routes would have to go out to tender and it might be that someone other than Flybe (mentioned in the local press as the likely favourite) would win the tender for, say Glasgow. That would mean Flybe having to come off the route.

For Glasgow that could be beneficial in that CWL gets 2 daily flights while Flybe could use the slots to increase elsewhere.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I'd be very surprised if the UK government sent any recommendations on to the EU and it could be down to Brexit that they are applying now especially if the UK government changed the criteria and that makes CWL ineligable in the future?

At first sight some of the routes might well meet the EC criteria for PSO. Perhaps the two that might not are the two the WG might particularly want - Manchester and London.

For Glasgow that could be beneficial in that CWL gets 2 daily flights while Flybe could use the slots to increase elsewhere.

If that was the case, wouldn't Flybe be flying them now instead of the GLA if they thought the other routes would be more profitable for them? It might, I suppose, depend on any agreement they have with the airport company as to routes.

 

[superking]

Flybe tried LCY when the severn tunnel was shut. They were getting decent loads,but don't know what the yield was like. As the train tunnel came back into use as the weeks went by the Flybe loads started to drop to a point the yield was not good,so hence route got dropped. It was a shame as I would have classed the London route as a prize route. It was a shame but it answered some questions,and the main question can CWL get a airline to London work,and the answer was no it cant.

 

[Jerry]

Yes LCY was a shame! I think for it to have be sustainable in the long term it would've needed to be like the EXT flight, a positioner for another flight out of LCY.

As for the PSO routes i do think out of all of them the one that might qualify would be LBA.

 

[Jerry]

Cardiffs team is back from World Routes 2018 now in Guangzhou in China. Lets hope it was a productive trip and results in a new airline or two!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1042670213592961025

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Bergen

There is a post on WAF saying that Newmarket Holidays are offering 8-day holidays to the Fjiords of Western Norway next year each month from April to October with direct flights from CWL. I wondered who the airline might be but a check with Newmarket's website shows the holidays are using KLM via AMS. Am I missing something or has the WAF poster got it wrong?

 

[Jerry]

Bergen

There is a post on WAF saying that Newmarket Holidays are offering 8-day holidays to the Fjiords of Western Norway next year each month from April to October with direct flights from CWL. I wondered who the airline might be but a check with Newmarket's website shows the holidays are using KLM via AMS. Am I missing something or has the WAF poster got it wrong?

I believe it's usually a cruise and i think think year Germania operated it the flight.

 

[Jerry]

I believe it's usually a cruise and i think think year Germania operated it the flight.

Maybe i should read the post first!