2018 Predictions & Aspirations

[Dobbo]

My feeling is that MAN want to funnel people to certain destinations (e.g. Tokyo, Rio, Johannesburg) through non LHR hubs in order to establish the figures for these as standalone routes. I think the non LHR is relevant because it shows demand via a non UK carrier.

 

[Dobbo]

I think it's about time there was a slight update to this reflecting news/speculation for 2017:

Hainan are to go daily to Beijing from 1 January 2017 with a second route to Xi'an sometime in 2017 twice weekly.

China Southern are to start Guangzhou at 3x weekly using the B788. No start time yet.

Virgin are to commence to San Francisco at 3x weekly and Boston 2x weekly. Initial plan seems to be seasonal but with an eye on year round. They must also have an eye on Los Angeles. Basing two extra aircraft at MAN would facilitate a major transatlantic expansion.

Thomas Cook looked like they wanted to extend their Los Angeles, Miami, Boston and New York offering. They would also have offered San francisco. Aircraft availability put pay to this, but we understand the aspiration remains.

American and Delta are going all widebody, using the B767 year round. We think that American may have designs on Dallas and Delta Detroit.

Very little movement from United.

Singapore Airlines look like they are taking steps to de link from Munich possibly with the A359. 4x weekly non-stop with the remaining 3x days as current via munich. Aspiration is to go daily non-stop.

So much to report on short haul, and I'm sure I've missed some more that can be filled in.

Whatever could be next...

 

[jfy1999]

Seems like it only took one announcement on Chinese flights for the floodgates to open

 

[User001]

An article showing some stats, and the growth in seat numbers. Stats are based on number of seats offered from April-June 2016.

Manchester fares well. One of the highest growth rates in Europe. Luton came out top for the UK with about 20,000 more seats than MAN.

Cracking stuff.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...et-key-part-of-short-haul-european-gr-424258/

 

[Dobbo]

Good to see. We have an indication of 2017 schedules, but what is the likely timeframe when we find out more information on the airlines plans?

 

[User001]

Fantastic to see Los Angeles on the departure boards tomorrow.

Been a long time coming and the continuation of some great long haul expansion for 2016. Boston, Beijing, Phuket, Aruba, Mauritius, Dubai world central, Goa, Shanghai and Tobago next, as well extra flights to Doha, Jeddah, New York, Orlando, Las Vegas, Barbados and newer equipment on Chicago.

With news of 3 new long haul routes, rumours of several more and expansion on 5 others for 2017 already, it looks like the juggernaut hit set to continue.

 

[Dobbo]

It is great to see the growth continue. I hope in time we can see some competition on the likes of LAX, SFO - like on the JFK route.

How was the load today? I assume as TCX were after 3x weekly next year it is reasonably strong?

 

[Dobbo]

I have spent some time on my list but life gets in the way sometimes. I expect to have it completed in the next couple of days.

Which airlines are yet to announce their winter 2016/17 and summer 2017 plans from MAN? Still a few to go Id guess but don't know who we are expecting?

 

[Dobbo]

As promised, I thought I'd update my recap of where the MAN long haul programme is and where we may see changes to existing routes, the status of confirmed new routes as well as some possible new routes over the next 2/3 years. The original was from around late Feb early March 2016.



Current Routes where changes may occur

JFK - this has seen significant growth over the past year with TCX, DL and AA operating a pretty much daily service. TCX are to go to daily in summer 2017 (early reports put this at 9x weekly which may still happen?) and AA and DL are moving towards offering the B764 product. An option for an afternoon flight would be a positive development here as would year-round widebody service from the US legacy carriers.
Update: I understand that DL and AA are now year round B767, which is a good increase. Regrettably, TCX have struggled with the increases they planned at the time of my last post. Hopefully these plans are on ice and we will see more flights from them. New entrants (like Norwegian) to the market are not impossible in the mid term.

IAD – a seasonal but daily (EDIT: 5x weekly?) route operated by UA. I don’t know what equipment they use although I suspect it will be a B757? It would be good to see this become year round, if less frequent in winter. Prices seem very high (per Skyscanner) so if they are using a B757 they may want to reconsider a B767.
Update: very little has changed. The next logical development would be a B767 year round. It is an existing route for VS (LHR fleet) but I think there are many other routes they would prioritise ahead of this one.

ORD – as with IAD, this is also a daily seasonal route operated by AA (but with only January to March being free of flights). From June to October 2016 this is operated by the B788. Making this year round with a B788 or B767 would be a sold next step before a year round widebody service.
Update: as above. A year round wide body service would be a good development. I doubt any new entrants would joint the market.

EWR – UA operate daily using a B757. Moving them towards the B767 on a year round basis would be a good upgrade. The B764 came in today, hopefully we will see this more regularly.

Update: I think that EWR has suffered at the expense of JFK. I'm not sure what UA can do to arrest the slump, but they are clearly facing a JFK onslaught. Newer equipment might help, but EWR is likely to suffer against the "brand" of JFK.

MIA – operated by TCX and to be increased to 3x weekly. May be a route where more competition could join in time (a VS or TOM route perhaps?).
Update: TCX have dropped the 3rd weekly rotation due to aircraft availability. This would be a target for VS I'm sure, but suspect their focus might be more in DL hubs.

ATL – I would like to mention this, as it is a route that has been performing very well. It will be interesting to see whether the addition of more services to the West Cost and other parts of the US (particularly if a Dallas service begins) will impact this, as I suspect most people on this route will be connecting. This is a daily A333, and there is no immediate way of increasing capacity, unless a B744 is used and these are being phased out. This may be an option for the A351 if VS order as rumoured.
Update: still going strong, no doubt VS/DL will want to test the market with west coast routes and the impact on ATL before further expansion.
LAX – TCX have now started this route using the A330. This will remain at 2x weekly over the winter, and is due to increase to 3x weekly from summer 2017 (this has been removed from the provisional S17 timetable). There have been rumours about VS being interested in this route but there has been no public comment. With luck the frequency increase for 2017 is a sign of what is to come, and options and frequency will increase on this route over the next year or two.
Update: as with MIA and JFK, TCX were unable to increase frequency. We understand that their objective is to go daily to the west cost (e.g. 4x LAX, 3x SFO but may now come under pressure from VS on both routes. I'd be shocked if VS don't launch this if SFO goes well.

HKG – CX have performed superbly on this route and it is expected that the current 4x weekly will be doubled to 8x weekly. It is not known whether the B77W will continue to be used (they do well on freight) or if this will change to the A359.
Update: having prioritised a slot grab at LGW and having crew and aircraft availability issues, I don't expect movement on this until next year at the earliest. That it is realistic for CX to operate 8x weekly using the B77W is tantamount to their success.

SIN – SQ will need to follow CX’s lead at some point, and it cannot come soon enough. De-coupling from MUC whilst continuing to offer a daily service may need the A359 but it has been done in the past with a B772 and CX want to increase, possibly still with the B77W. They need to do something soon because the MEB3 and CX offer a one stop kangaroo route and connecting to SE Asia. SQ offers two stops. Even on the route to their own hub SQ offer one stop – the same as the MEB3 and others. Whilst they continue to have reasonable patronage, they are obviously losing customers to the MEB3 (Emirates in particular) and CX.
Update: SQ seem to have realised they need to do something and have plans in the pipeline. Objective seems to be to retain a daily service but do so using the A359 non-stop. Initially likely to be 4x weekly (3x weekly retaining the MUC tag) but eventually daily.

DXB – EK continues to perform strongly from MAN. It seems likely that either a 4th daily or the conversion of the early morning flight to A380 will be announced in 2016. This will be interesting as the B77W carries far more cargo than the A380. Triple A380 ops may need a dedicated cargo service, which would go against recent trends.
Update: loads remain in excess of 90%. It can't be long before a change is made.

AUH – as with the other members of the MEB3, EY have had a good year. They are at a point where they have a 2x daily B77W service, which are very full, and to increase capacity they are either looking at using an A380 or adding a third daily flight. They have few A380s (although they have indicated they want to bring it to MAN one day, and one of MANs renders of the TP shows an EY A380) so I think that is unlikely for now. Moving to a three daily operation and using more A330s and B789s seems to me to be the most likely next step if they want to increase capacity.
Update: loads are in the high 80s, with a little bedding in a third daily cannot be too far away.

DOH – QR are approaching the point where they use a double daily B77W. They still use a mix of A330, B788 and B77W and either just have or are about to go double daily. They have time to follow the template of EK and EY.
Update: QR continue to add rotations to MAN. Hard to keep precise track due to the different equipment used.

LHE – we are aware of PIA’s current battle, which I think most expect them to win.
Update: Shaeen appear to be doing well. There was talk of an extension to Canada? Quite how, no one seems to be sure. Air Blue seem to have vanished.

Soon to be Served

SFO – TCX seem to have tipped their hand at starting this route in the summer 2017 at 2x weekly using the A330. As with LAX, VS are rumoured to have interest in this route, but there has been no public comment. I should note that TCX have removed SFO from the provisional timetable, but this is not unusual (I am told!).
Update: TCX have postponed the launch but are supposed to retain the ambition as per my comments above. No doubt VS aim to run this year round and increase frequency.

BOS – TCX to commence the route at 2x weekly in May using the A330. This looks like a seasonal route for now.
Update: VS to also start the route at 2x weekly from 2017. May also see Norwegian enter the market.

PEK – Hainan to start this route on 10 June 4x weekly using the A333. This has already been up-gauged from the A332, hopefully a sign of advance bookings. They have stated that they want to make this a daily operation in future.

Update: Hainan to start daily from 1 January 2017.

PVG – Air China are expected to announce this shortly before Hainan start their route. Presume it will use the A330 but no indication about frequency. I think it is reasonable to assume that they will mirror Hainan and start at 4x weekly with an aspiration to go daily.

Update: possible October start. Slots at Shanghai have been in issue.

HKT – TOM to commence this as a fortnightly (i.e. one flight every 14 days) in the winter of 2016 (I am not sure which month?) using the B788. Obviously one flight every two weeks is not ideal, but as a bucket and spade charter type operation as part of a package holiday it probably works.

NEW
CAN - possible new route for China Southern using the B778. 3x weekly from next summer.
XIY - may be a new route for Hainan. 2x weekly. No idea what equipment.

Unserved Routes that may be feasible in the short/medium term

DFW – this is a major hub for AA, primarily for South America. AA have previously tweeted their desire to run MAN-DFW using a B788 so it is a case of “watch this space” although nothing much has changed over a long period.
Update: no update.
DET: new to the list, this is likely to fill down time for VS A333 between vegas flights.

KUL – previously served by MH using the B744 this remains a major market that is consistently in the MEB3’s most popular destinations ex MAN. Had MH been in a better financial position, I think they would be looking at the opportunities at MAN. As it happens, D7 have shown an interest in the past and have recently indicated that they might consider running into LGW. Might this be back on the cards?
Update: despite the arrival of an MH A380, no update. May be one for Norwegian.

BKK – I don’t know if this has been served previously. TG have apparently had their eye on MAN for some time but like MH they are in a poor financial position. A shame, because I think they would do well from MAN with their onwards connections. This is one of the routes where TCX may see an expansion opportunity over the next couple of years.
Update: no update. It was speculated that it could form a stop on a route to Taipei, but that is purely speculation.

CPT/JNB – these have been tried in the past, but SAA are not in a position to return (and may not want to in any event). It is probably an either or scenario, but I strongly think TCX can make MAN-CPT work as a 3/4x weekly operation – particularly as a winter operation. I think they run the route from LGW, so this may be on the cards before too long.
Update: no update.

HND – we know that JAL have been sniffing around, but very little seems to have happened. Rumoured at 4x weekly. They may be waiting to see how Hainan and Air China impact on CX and whether CX up-gauge to 8x weekly.

Update: no update.

DEL – one for Air India perhaps. Understandably their focus is on Birmingham but I would think the wider north would have the population and business connections for regular flights.
Update: no update.

BOM – one for Air India and/or Jet Airways to look at. Understandably their focus is on Birmingham but I would think the wider north would have the population and business connections for regular flights.
Update: no update.

RUH – strong indications that Saudia will start this soon.
Update: no update.


I think that the next decade could be more

Exciting that we think. Assuming LHR and LGW are not expanded, I could see some serious long haul expansion from MAN over the period. Routes previously thought to be unattainable (e.g. Indonesia, South America) may suddenly appear.

 

[Aceshigh]

I have just seen a reuters brief suggesting Air India have set up a code share with Flybe WHY ?

No feed into Heathrow

Very limited feed into Birmingham.

Very high frequency domestic and European feed into Manchester from multiple cities BUT no long haul flight to India

I'm somewhat baffled!

Ideas anybody?

 

[Dobbo]

I'm sure if Air India (or Jet Airways for that matter) were to start a service from MAN they would think about a Flybe codeshare.

In the long run, I see Flybe and MANs partnership developing yet further, and BA will surely ramp down their shuttle operation over the next decade or so as capacity constraints bite and PAX choose alternatives.

Flybe and MAN are uniquely placed to take advantage of this and offer long haul connections to parts of the UK that miss out on the Heathrow Shuttle. Places like Norwich, Exeter, Cardiff, Inverness, Aberdeen, Belfast and a whole range of Non-UK routes could benefit.

Airlines like Singapore could use Flybe, and as it becomes more established some of the previously thought long shots like Thai, JAL, Malaysian could also see Flybe as a big carrot to use MAN.

Do we know how the TP is catering for this?

 

[jfy1999]

What do you mean by "very limited feed at BHX" Aceshigh?

 

[Aceshigh]

Well it's only 3 airports two of which connect every hour into Heathrow.

I wasn't knocking BHX I just couldn't see the point of the code share against a tsunami of competition.

 

[User001]

given how good 2017 is shaping to be so far, I'm having to start off this thread earlier than planned.

The first map, is confirmed and proposed (media release proposing the flights rather than rumours) long haul expansion.

The good news is, all is confirmed barring the extra PEK and Xi'an, which is media quoted as proposed.

Short haul to follow.

 

[Dobbo]

It's difficult to work out what might be next.

Some of the more obvious ones I am expecting include Terhain with Iran Air, but I'm looking forward to seeing what Norwegian long haul would try from MAN. I fancy not all of it will be transatlantic.

 

[Dobbo]

2017 has started off strongly, but there are a number of things worth keeping an eye open for:

Norwegian - just what are they going to do and where? Will it only be transatlantic routes they serve or might we see somewhere more exotic?

India - will this ever happen?

Tokyo - JAL or ANA would be as fantastic as LA, San Fran, Beijing, Shanghai.

Dallas - route to this AA hub would mark a major milestone. Perhaps nothing imminent until the B787 comes online in greater numbers.

West coast - year round competition on both routes from TCX, VS and possibly others??

 

[EGCC_MAN]

India: note that Oman Air offers connections over Muscat to 11 cities in India. Probably not a coincidence re the choice of MAN. One must be careful not to dilute the fledgling service.

 

[Land23R]

User001, Many thanks for the map update.

As you are referring to new services in 2017, are you assuming Shanghai will happen this year? I think October had been mentioned but have those licence/slot issues been resolved?

 

[Land23R]

Picked this up from SSC. It's dated 14 May but I don't recall seeing it previously.

http://www.jet2.com/News/Jet2_com_and_Jet2holidays_Go_BIG_in_Manchester/

 

[Dobbo]

The map already needs to be updated!!