New Start-Up Airline

[Finger66]

I always said that once there seemed to be a serious amount of interest in the potential project then it was time to create its own thread, as was also suggested by xboy999 in the CAA Stats thread yesterday - so here we are.
THE HISTORY
About years ago Finger66 had the first idea of starting his own airline, but at that point had absolutely no idea where to start and generally believed it would be only a dream due to the financial costs involved. He has lots of years experience in the Business Travel industry and also a couple of years working for Capital Airlines. He has always been a big supporter of LBA. So no shortage of passion and knowledge - but they aren't enough by themselves.
WHERE WE ARE SO FAR
About a week ago, following some doom and gloom posted on F4A around potential loss of routes and how best to fill them there was a tongue in cheek comment posted asking if Finger66 would start his own airline. This was responded to saying it was something I would very much like to do and had previously considered. Certain responses from other members to that suggested this may not be a serious project. That was immediately put right. Since then there has been an increasing amount of support for the project and some excellent contributions and advice from many F4A members so thank you all for that. Enquiries away from F4A have also taken place.The general consensus from all of this is:
Use aircraft of 19 seats or less to stay under the higher CAA funding threshold. This also provides an opportunity for higher frequency for the business travel market as not the high numbers required to fill each aircraft.
A minimum of 10 aircraft is needed to make the operation full viable - subject to the routes themselves also being profitable.
Use twin engined aircraft and not single engined
A good suggestion of routes has been made, pretty much all that were on the radar.
Even a potential offer of a crew member has been made.
The mood towards the project has clearly changed, just in the last week, and very much for the better - thank you again.
THE NEXT SHORT TERMS STEPS
Finger 66 is under no illusions about the enormity of the potential task involved.
He is still looking for the required financial backing.
He needs to meet with someone at LBA for their initial input and whether they could accommodate such a venture. I know Darren Peters and have had dealings with Tony Hallwood even though he wouldn't directly remember me.
To start work on a more firm Business Plan.
Any further comments, input, observations would be greatly appreciated.
Any possible leads from anyone to introduce me to anyone who can seriously help me take this project forward would also be appreciated.

I think that just about summarises things for now. Happy reading and posting everyone and once again thank you for the advice, support and contributions so far.

 

[Finger66]

Interestingly enough as I start to create the Business Plan on paper I am googling passenger numbers on certain routes, whether by train or air. Wouldn't of course pull all these away from current modes but a start. Thank you for your additional suggestion too xboy999 as this is further food for thought.

 

[rangieowner]

Finger, you may also consider speaking to Yorkshire Forward in regards to some funding, I believe they were willing to fund the total cost of building of Leeds Arena (before being disallowed by government) as it would boost Yorkshires economy, as perhaps would a Yorkshire based airline!

 

[a300boy]

I am still in touch with the guy who ran Yorkshire European Airlines and is now a B767 captain.
He leased two Embraer 110 Bandeirante aircraft plus a Piper Navajo at the time and served Southampton, Belfast and Aberdeen from Leeds.
I understand that 12 passengers is a Vat cut off point unless that has changed recently.
I am sure he would be able to offer some advice should you choose to proceed.
I have had my own aviation business since 1990 operating in the private and business sector with 6 aircraft at one time and now down to 3 but happy to help in any way once I have crawled out of the woodwork.

 

[White Heather]

Another route that might be viable with a smaller aircraft and therefore lower passenger numbers is London City. Leeds remains the biggest financial sector employer outside of the City of London there must still be a considerable number of people heading up and down between the two cities on a daily basis? It might just work with such a small aircraft?

 

[Finger66]

This is starting to get scary, but in a good way, as this is probably more feasible than I ever thought initially. Do need to get on with a business plan and make it all happen

 

[Finger66]

Assuming I can get this all to happen then it will be turboprobs max 19 seats. Wont be entertaining regional jets. Whilst a flexible approach to scheduling will work for some, knowing when a flight will operate is far more reassuring to the many. Costs in all of this are important and are an equal consideration along with routes, aircraft type, frequency. The basic business plan is starting to take shape but still a long way to go. Once I have all my angles covered I shall start chatting to the right people in more detail. Sorry if I have answered comments from other threads here but the idea of starting this new thread was to keep posts relevant. I really do appreciate all your comments, thoughts and input so please keep them coming. The more food for thought I have the better. And this will be for the benefit of LBA and the business traveller if and when it happens. Something we are all united on regardless of other individual opinions

 

[whoshotjimmi]

If you can get it up and running by September that would be great. Monthly business travel to Bristol for me by then.

 

[Bigman]

How about twice daily Cardiff, with a lunchtime flight to the IOM? That would be nice.

 

[Finger66]

I cannot reiterate enough how much I appreciate all the input and suggestions and it is very interesting that particularly around routes, many others are thinking along similar lines to myself. I have no doubt in my mind this project can work. Whether it ever gets off the ground is going to be down to me to convince the money men to invest. All your thoughts and input are contributions to my ever increasing business plan

 

[White Heather]

Another you might wish to try Finger66 is Exeter. Not particularly a business route but there is demand as Devon is a long haul by road (often up to 6 hours) and by train it is less than pleasant too - and at least 4 hours - possibly more given that the train on that very route takes 2 hours just to get to Birmingham. As you know, Flybe used to operate to Exeter from ABZ/LBA and nobody has done the route since.

 

[Finger66]

Everyone is either second guessing me or can see the contents of my business plan. EXT def a consideration due overland journey. Thank you for the suggestion though white Heather. This feedback remains very encouraging

 

[Tinkerman]

Just seen this thread pop-up on here. I have no real interest in LBA as such apart from a CWL-LBA link which is such an arduous journey by other forms of transport. I've expressed similar wishes of setting up a regional puddle-jumper style operation like this for many years now, and i must say the UK is ideally suited to it.

Infrastructure in the UK is relatively poor leading to long travel times to many parts of the UK, where my initial inspiration came from. I also heard that RUAG were developing a new, efficient 19-seat aircraft similar to the D228 variants etc. which would be great for this style of operation since many of the 19-seat aircraft available are old and are a tad delapitated. I'm happy to help where i can, and i must say that with Social Media as an increasingly popular means of free advertising it's great to get your business out there and relatively cheaply too.

I'd actually like to become involved with this venture in some way if possible, hit me up with a message and i'll see what i can do for you, it may well be that some of your plans align with ones i came up with many years ago. I'm actually quite surprised that no one has done this in the UK recently.

Biggest issue there is with 19-seat aircraft is securing a good yield due to the relatively high seat costs due to only having 19 passengers. However, this can be overcome in a couple of ways. Some of the larger airlines in the UK may actually appreciate this kind of service linking smaller airports with their flights, namely BE, EZY etc.

To note, there are some highly interesting developments out there regarding these 19-seat type of aircraft, which of course currently circumvents the punitive charge of APD also, in addition to a swathe of other regulations including a different CAA operating license which is considerably easier to achieve.

 

[a300boy]

Piggy Back Aoc would be the best way to start until the venture is making money then apply for an in house one.

 

[Finger66]

Has it been a good week seems to be the question? I had it in my mind to provide an update today on how things are progressing anyway. To some degree i apologise in advance if i start to be a little more coy in information provided openly on F4A but suffice to say I have found someone who is very keen to work with me to progress this and we are now communicating privately. Equally that shouldnt mean anyone should be getting overly excited as there is one heck of a long way to go and without any guarantees. Just suffice to say further progress has been made this week with more around progressing a firm business plan. With continued progress if any of you have very specific contributions that can be made then please private message me as its time for those specific plans and progress to retain a certain amount of confidentiality. I hope you can all understand that. The above said anything I feel i can share with you all then you will be the first to know as you are all very keen and seem very supportive towards the project. I really hope this can come to fruition and we dont end up with another false dawn. The good thing here is we are talking very sensible and realistic plans not to become another Richard Branson overnight - or even ever for that matter

 

[leedslad]

Might be worth speaking with Leeds East Airport if business routes... Much faster check in time, possibly free parking and probably much lower landing fees. Guess they'd be delighted to get their first scheduled flights...

 

[a300boy]

I was over there last week and the new airfield manager told be commercial operations were unlikely to happen and the new vision is for a quality business airfield for the area.

 

[KARFA]

Might be worth speaking with Leeds East Airport if business routes... Much faster check in time, possibly free parking and probably much lower landing fees. Guess they'd be delighted to get their first scheduled flights...

Until they install some landing aids I very much doubt any airline would wish to operate from that airport - I don't even think they have PAPI light never mind ILS.

 

[lbaspotter]

Even though your looking for business passengers, The lack of public transport links to Church Fenton wouldn't help matters.
And before anyone has a go at me, I know Leeds/Bradford isn't its self perfect, but it has everything in place and has an history which shows it can sustain UK domestic and short European routes using the right sized aircraft.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

The north is crying out for a business jet airport on the lines of Farnborough, London Oxford, with meeting rooms and other facilities.
I am not sure whether LBA has the parking to expand as a base for private charter jets, it certainly has with the Multiflight business centre a very good base and I am sure if this side expanded we would not have to go to the main terminal to show passports as can happen at the moment.
Like Church Fenton its let down by its links roads, however, this may change for LBA, not CF
Business Jet Charter costs are falling like a stone as charter apps allow the business community to locate the position of jets and give instant Uber type prices and timescales. These programmes are improving the utilization of the aircraft and reducing empty positioning flights.
I hope LBA has the space to allow its business jet market to expand, it could bring in a major revenue steam.