Route Development & Rumours

[IanFarquharson]

The two A318 are very low density and all buisness / first, so they would need kitting out.
Plus they would have to fuel stop Westbound, so not really viable.
But if you believe the rumours we may see more BA in the future ?

 

[ethanegcc]

These A318s are in fully business class configuration which wouldn't work for BHX.

They have a stop in SNN which would not make it any more attractive than any other one-stop option, apart from US pre clearance.

I don't think BA will do this at all.

788s are way too big to operate a BHX-NYC route considering AA couldn't make it work with a 752.

I think the best BHX can hope from BA is these CityFlyer routes. They don't want to take away passengers from their LHR routes by launching BHX to JFK as it is 'close' to LON. Meanwhile, AA has proved MAN has an independent market that can serve three destinations with a BA JV, without affecting their LON services. This is something AA couldn't achieve at BHX this time around, despite proving their is more demand than the UA 752.

 

[TM3]

They are all business, but that is 32 seats, UA have 16 on their 757s and they are nearly always filled.

An A318 in standard config (100+ pax) has a range of 3,600 miles which JFK is within.

Hypothetically BA could go for a low density config even if it meant 50/50 between business and economy which would mean more range than the standard config.

Part of the reason LCY requires a technical stop is because LCY is a short runway and aircraft cannot take off with a full fuel load.

BA could plan in a technical stop westbound only if needed, depending on fuel available, which is what US airlines operating 757s deep into Europe tend to do, but it does require diversions sometimes.

I don't really expect this to be announced but maybe it is something that is viable, there is certainly demand for <100 seats between BHX and JFK, particularly with a BA code, if someone can work out how to service it.

AA filled more seats than this on their service.

 

[ethanegcc]

A technical stop from BHX going westbound would be highly likely though, that 'range' is hypothetical - not real!

A 50/50 config is not viable. You said yourself, UA fills 16 Business Class seats - the current 32 is double that and 50 is near enough triple. Yes, 16 seats may be full but it doesn't mean that they could fill 50?

I don't think they could have the range with a business and economy layout that actually works for the regions e.g. not very premium heavy.

Unfortunately, it won't work.

'AA filled more seats on their service' - this is part of the issue, a fully laden A318 will not have the range to do BHX-NYC and their 788s are too big. The 752 is the perfect aircraft for the route at the moment. Maybe if BA had ordered the 737 MAX then they could make it work with this, but they haven't. Norwegian is the most well poised candidate for a BHX-NYC route on a 737M or TCX with a 332, but only on an extremely low frequency.

 

[TM3]

A 50/50 config is not viable. You said yourself, UA fills 16 Business Class seats - the current 32 is double that and 50 is near enough triple. Yes, 16 seats may be full but it doesn't mean that they could fill 50?

Your maths is faulty here 50/50 would mean 16 business seats not 50. The other half of the space occupied by economy would still constitute a low density config.

Shannon is only 300 miles away from BHX and BA don't operate that leg with a full fuel load so there is some extra to be found here.

 

[TM3]

A technical stop from BHX going westbound would be highly likely though, that 'range' is hypothetical - not real!

Agreed.

 

[User001]

It's funny how the talk of BA has switched to long haul, it's clear to see where the glamour lies.

When this announcement does finally drop through the letterbox, I know a few will be 'underwhelmed'. The same basis of the BHX announcement is also happening at Manchester, and the talk has already been met with 'no big deal' and 'so what', but, we need to remember what the news will represent.

Now, I know said airline now has a tarnished reputation in the UK regions, particularly at MAN and BHX, but, to get them back on European routes, in any form, is quite a coup considering the stance of the airline in recent years.

For Manchester, it's just an addition (said airline runs 2 routes to Europe through its franchise partner so would be an addition), but for BHX this marks 'new territory' for a number of years.

While Paul Kehoe used to do the trash talk against the airline, he has now been clamouring to have them back, through codeshares initially, and now this. Whether us enthusiasts like to admit it or not, the airlines brand is still a strong and important one on the UK, and while this base will just be Thu-Sun for a few routes, it's a start, and from acorns grow mighty oaks.

I know the tradjectory of where all this could lead to, so, like I say, when the announcement does come, celebrate, not berate. The past is the past, it's now time to look to the future.

 

[hammerb32]

It's funny how the talk of BA has switched to long haul, it's clear to see where the glamour lies.

When this announcement does finally drop through the letterbox, I know a few will be 'underwhelmed'. The same basis of the BHX announcement is also happening at Manchester, and the talk has already been met with 'no big deal' and 'so what', but, we need to remember what the news will represent.

Now, I know said airline now has a tarnished reputation in the UK regions, particularly at MAN and BHX, but, to get them back on European routes, in any form, is quite a coup considering the stance of the airline in recent years.

For Manchester, it's just an addition (said airline runs 2 routes to Europe through its franchise partner so would be an addition), but for BHX this marks 'new territory' for a number of years.

While Paul Kehoe used to do the trash talk against the airline, he has now been clamouring to have them back, through codeshares initially, and now this. Whether us enthusiasts like to admit it or not, the airlines brand is still a strong and important one on the UK, and while this base will just be Thu-Sun for a few routes, it's a start, and from acorns grow mighty oaks.

I know the tradjectory of where all this could lead to, so, like I say, when the announcement does come, celebrate, not berate. The past is the past, it's now time to look to the future.

Fully agree, we should also remember which airline off shored everything they could and which kept everything they could in the UK. BA deserve a lot of praise for that and a certain other carrier often lauded as our alternate flag carrier deserve a lot more questioning than they get away with.

 

[David_itl]

If BA were to fully cancel LCY-JFK then it's either (1) bye-bye A318 in their fleet with BA reinstating extra LHR-JFK frequencies or (2) the A318 gets moved to LHR - but I'm pretty sure that there would need to be some negotiation for this.

For BA in the regions, with costs under control then they can now start looking operating out of them. At the moment if they replicate the STN operation, it may look like only a summer weekend "leisure" operation. Whether they could translate that long-term into operating business schedules with the weekend leisure flying is something that could be debated.

 

[thunderchild]

Any new airline launching new routes should only be good news for the airport and if this announcement does turn out to be the return of BA in the form of Cityflyer then I'm all for it - even it is just an E-jet flying a few weekend Sun routes.

Both BHX and BA are both very different from what they were 10 years ago and I just hope lessons have been learned. I'd hate to see BHX throw all their weight behind BA again just for the 'glory' of having them back on tarmac and run the risk of alienating existing carriers or any new operators.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray and all, if regarding the news I have read earlier about British Airways city high flyer could be based at the airport between Thursday to Sunday for some short haul routes ie any cities in the Uk like London City airport, for the capital city of London, orLiverpool or Edinburgh, Manchester, to start with these routes, then expand to Paris, France, or Berlin, Germany, Rome, Italy or even Madrid in Spain, then if the demand is there, then look further. I know other people on this forum have said no way to British Airways again, we don't need London Airways, but I my self and like other people have mentioned, British Airways carriers our national flag as it's symbol, so let's get behind this and hope this grows and grows to as big that we really want it to become.. Andyc

 

[Ray Finkle]

I think it's important not to get too carried away with this, nothing has been announced as yet and we all know that even nailed on routes that are very close can fall at the last hurdle.

This will be an E190 doing 4/5 sun routes making use of the aircraft whilst LCY is closed.

That said I agree that it will/would be great to see BA colours back in Birmingham and I'm sure that they will be popular.

The rumours are definitely there about what this will potentially lead to, some do appear far fetched but a few months ago even the return of BA seemed far fetched. Those rumours are for another day though, firstly, lets get them in, secondly, lets make the routes work.

After that, well who knows

 

[thunderchild]

Amen!

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray and all, why is London City airport closed for... Andyc

 

[Ray Finkle]

Hi there ray and all, why is London City airport closed for... Andyc

From Wiki

Operations are restricted to 06:30 to 22:30 Monday to Friday, 06:30 to 13:00 on Saturdays and 12:30 to 22:30 on Sundays. These restrictions are related to noise

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray, so is this the reason why the BA city flyer might be coming to Birmingham airport between Thursdays and Sundays, if this is the case, then a big gain for Birmingham airport... Andyc

 

[David_itl]

Part of the Capital Markets Day presentation had this

"• CityFlyer growing with flexibility to deploy fleet from several UK airports"

So we can potentially look at them doing BHX, MAN, GLA and EDI routes. As it stands, they have idle assets at LCY with a limited charter schedule in the summer to a few airports which may not generate as high a return as if they were to operate scheduled services in their own right.

 

[Jon Dempsey]

Here is some pure speculation on this.

I read elsewhere that BA is going to axe it's A318 services between JFK and LCY and they are looking for another use for these aircraft, the only A318s they operate.

Given that AA have proven that there is a certain amount of demand between JFK and BHX could BA relocate these aircraft to BHX?

Consider that JFK is a level 3 slot constrained airport and BA may not want to give up these slots.

This route was specifically Canary Wharf/The City -> Wall Street. If that can't pay, it won't work elsewhere at the moment.

 

[Bhx_fifteen]

Norwegian's Irish AOC license has been approved today, meaning they will be more flexible in being able to offer flights from the UK to USA. Following this, they've announced a 50% increase in flights from Gatwick to the USA.

https://www.businesstraveller.com/b...5/norwegian-increase-us-services-50-per-cent/

One paragraph that stood out to me in this article....

"With nine more 787 Dreamliners entering our fleet next year, this will be just the beginning of our UK expansion. Norwegian will continue to grow the number of great value flights to the US and drive down fares to become the UK’s number one airline of choice.”

 

[User001]

There seems to be a Condor flight to Palma showing in Amadeus but not bookable at this time:

DE1053 PMI 0715 BHX 0840
DE1052 BHX 1040 PMI 1300

B757-300 every Saturday from end of May to Sept.