Route Development & Rumours

[Llandudno]

While he may not explicitly say Liverpool, he does say:

"We just have to have the right aircraft and the right economics to be able to serve the smaller cities in Northern England"

"With Manchester, we were flying a [smaller] 757 and we said 'this is doing okay, let's add more business class, more economy class', and so we did it by putting it in a larger aircraft. The next logical step in that would be adding it to another city."

But, smaller cities could equally mean LBA/NCL and at a push BHX as its further north than LHR after all, the point remains he never actually said Liverpool could be added, the headline is probably click bait at best. And that 'add another city to it' line refers to MAN and adding another city to that airport, likely ORD to be honest.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

If you read past the headline, it isn't quite what it seems.

The Vice President of UA didn't actually say Liverpool will be added. What he did say was that all of the UK airports are always under constant evaluation. The reporter, doing so from a Liverpool perspective, has insinuated that it could also mean Liverpool gets added.

What the VP did say that was they go for mature growth and upscaling. So now Manchester was a wide body year round, the next logical step was to start a 2nd route to Manchester. In other words, UA would add a 2nd US city to Manchester, not UA add a 2nd route from Newark to the North West and thus slightly lost in translation there.

So don't dispair, we are not about to see UA add Liverpool, far from it.

You got there before me, Llandudno. I was about to make the same point.

 

[Coathanger16]

But, smaller cities could equally mean LBA/NCL and at a push BHX as its further north than LHR after all, the point remains he never actually said Liverpool could be added, the headline is probably click bait at best. And that 'add another city to it' line refers to MAN and adding another city to that airport, likely ORD to be honest.

To be honest my original point also applies to Leeds and Newcastle.

After Heathrow, Manchester, Edinburgh & Glasgow, are United really considering other Northern cities over BHX?

I was never suggesting that United were actually adding Liverpool, just that I'd hoped that any new route (outside of LHR, MAN, EDI & GLA) would be to BHX rather than an airport half its size...

 

[Angie88]

Were united LF not good at BHX?

Or did BHX management just rock the boat with primera?

I just don’t understand why we are forgotten about!

 

[IanFarquharson]

Were united LF not good at BHX?

Or did BHX management just rock the boat with primera?

I just don’t understand why we are forgotten about!

BHX was often over 90% LF

 

[Angie88]

BHX was often over 90% LF

Well I’m lost then. None of this makes sense

 

[rollo]

The route lasted twenty years 1997 to 2017 originally operated by Continental who quickly upgraded to DC10s for a while and also later operating double daily in summer with 757s for a while. They also saw off the BA service to JFK so presumably the route must have had something going for it.

One of BHXs biggest losses in my opinion, a city like Birmingham should really be able to support a New York service.

 

[Jerry]

Well I’m lost then. None of this makes sense

The aircraft used was a 757, these are not only getting older but the product they had onboard especially the international business class was needed for the transcontinental in the US, which is seeing more and more international business class standard seats and is extremely competitive. I genuinely think that United dropped BHX because they felt they couldn't upgrade it to a 767 and make money like they have done at Manchester.

 

[Angie88]

The aircraft used was a 757, these are not only getting older but the product they had onboard especially the international business class was needed for the transcontinental in the US, which is seeing more and more international business class standard seats and is extremely competitive. I genuinely think that United dropped BHX because they felt they couldn't upgrade it to a 767 and make money like they have done at Manchester.

Surely at 90% LF they could have tested the market with a 767 instead of just dropping it all together without even trying?

I just hope if united are considering ‘northern cities’ for future expansion, BHX is being considered

 

[Jerry]

Surely at 90% LF they could have tested the market with a 767 instead of just dropping it all together without even trying?

I just hope if united are considering ‘northern cities’ for future expansion, BHX is being considered

Depends on what the yields were like or if they thought that they could make more money with the aircraft elsewhere.

 

[nwoody2001]

The above thread of posts is the epitome of why people post “click-bait” ...because people like the above has been completely baited!!!

a northwest business reporter asked a question. The answer was generic enough that the report can concluse whatever they like. Depending on the location of the report, the city in this article could have been replaced with Coventry, Southend and indeed Birmingham.

The VP even admits they don’t have the right aircraft, and if they did, other cities could be explored. Thank you for staying the obvious.

The only thing I can take from this article is positive. Having withdrawn from Bristol, Belfast and Birmingham (do they hate places beginning with a B?) I’m reassured that they have not given up on other cities in the uk outside their existing routes!

 

[Silvercity]

If this happens - then I give up !

Whilst I don't believe this will happen anytime soon, it's not that unbelievable. Liverpool has had links to New York in the past and the city is pretty famous for Americans.

 

[mullion]

Angie I think the problem is yield for BHX, the reason for the Manchester upgrade was because the business clients were demanding more and better business class which the B757 could not provide also a lot of cargo again the B757 cannot do,both of which increase yield by a large margin. which can make a route a net earner agains marginal even with full economy

 

[hammerb32]

Angie I think the problem is yield for BHX, the reason for the Manchester upgrade was because the business clients
were demanding more and better business class which the B757 could not provide also a lot of cargo again the B757
cannot do,both of which increase yield by a large margin. which can make a route a net earner agains marginal even with
full economy

A few years ago my job took me to America on a regular basis, in 2014 I flew 11 times between BHX and EWR, not once was there a spare seat in business or economy plus, fares were on each occasion more expensive from BHX than LHR. On 1 occasion when I couldn't get a seat from BHX I flew LHR to IAD, 1 person in business, load factor was probably about 40% full. I'm not having the yield argument at all.

 

[mullion]

Well unless we work in United Airlines accounts we will never know, what we do know is that many of flights to US from Heathrow are far from full and are slot sitters and are used on a basis of use it or lose it and quite often leased to other operators

 

[Jerry]

Also a lot of the big routes at Heathrow require frequency to be attractive. Hence why many have 3 to 4 daily flights or more from just one airline.

 

[Angie88]

A few years ago my job took me to America on a regular basis, in 2014 I flew 11 times between BHX and EWR, not once was there a spare seat in business or economy plus, fares were on each occasion more expensive from BHX than LHR. On 1 occasion when I couldn't get a seat from BHX I flew LHR to IAD, 1 person in business, load factor was probably about 40% full. I'm not having the yield argument at all.

I’m not buying the yield argument either

 

[nwoody2001]

the reality is, the 757 was the perfect aircraft for the route, but their numbers of dwindling, require a lot of money to upgrade and frankly don't offer the quality people expect on TATL routes. The Big US3 can therefore now make more money using them on shorter domestic flights, which is where many of their aircraft go.

The key to this article is the right aircraft.

I have no doubt their is a decent market for the BHX-TATL routes, but it requires the right airline with right aircraft... This Big US3 maybe are the right airlines due to their bases and connections, but don't have a suitable 757 replacement for long-haul routes. the A321LR is probably ideal for that but the This Big US3 don't use those long-haul yet.

 

[Aviador]

I wont lose any sleep if United don't show up. US destinations might look good in an airport business prospectus or on the departure boards but U.S flights barely ever make any money. Flying to the U.S in mass was a 90s fad that died out and has never returned. On the rare occasion we see a new regional service to the States it invariably fails within twelve months. If we are to see a return, BHX would be the obvious airport after MAN in my opinion.

 

[RichL]

I know you say it's no loss, but for the second city to not have a single flight to America it's a bit of a joke to be honest with you, and not a very funny one at that.