Route Development

[Silvercity]

Yes it's deeply frustrating especially as you say it appears to perform well from Liverpool.

All airports and airlines seem to carry out these route questionnaires asking people where they want to fly to next. You'd think they'd be able to work it out for themselves. People tend to always pick places like New York but in reality how many people actually go there? As an example the business community of Bristol said they needed a New York service but when Bristol Airport scooped Continental Airlines they were eventually given a "use it or lose it" ultimatum. Not too long after, the route ceased.

A general rule I have is if a route can support say two airlines from Manchester, a neighbouring airport should be able to support one as well. If only one airline is serving a route from Manchester, the chances are it wont work from one of the surrounding airports. This isn't a strict rule as there are other factors you need to consider. If one airline is carrying over 200,000 passengers annually from Manchester then obviously one of the surrounding airports has a case to claw back some of their lost passengers. The aviation industry is a dog eat dog business it's an uphill struggle for the smaller airports.

#wherenextliverpool

I believe the aircraft used on LPL-LiS is a Lisbon based machine, so I'm thinking that's going somewhere else, who knows . Perhaps a the route will reappear for 2019 , its long established so I imagine the airport management will be keen to see it reinstated asap

 

[Silvercity]

Yes it's deeply frustrating especially as you say it appears to perform well from Liverpool.

All airports and airlines seem to carry out these route questionnaires asking people where they want to fly to next. You'd think they'd be able to work it out for themselves. People tend to always pick places like New York but in reality how many people actually go there? As an example the business community of Bristol said they needed a New York service but when Bristol Airport scooped Continental Airlines they were eventually given a "use it or lose it" ultimatum. Not too long after, the route ceased.

A general rule I have is if a route can support say two airlines from Manchester, a neighbouring airport should be able to support one as well. If only one airline is serving a route from Manchester, the chances are it wont work from one of the surrounding airports. This isn't a strict rule as there are other factors you need to consider. If one airline is carrying over 200,000 passengers annually from Manchester then obviously one of the surrounding airports has a case to claw back some of their lost passengers. The aviation industry is a dog eat dog business it's an uphill struggle for the smaller airports.

#wherenextliverpool

Of course I think it is a poor decision by Easyjet, not just because it leaves Liverpool without this route and so reducing choice for NW passengers, but by moving this to Manchester , you now have 3 operators there FR, TAP and EZY. Out of the 3 which are most well known in the UK ? TAP is more likely to feel the impact more, and TAP offers more in terms of onward transfers.

 

[mullion]

Carl I don1t think it is quite as easy as that in that TAP serve a different market i:e much
more business/connecting to L/H Ryanair is a different kettle of fish and to a lesser extent
Easyjet which I know do carry a lot of business pax.
I have just had a look back through pax figures to LIS from LPL and MAN
over that last 4 years LPL approx 5000 a month maxed out at 5600 but now back
to 5000 as oppsed to MAN 11,000 in 2014 and 20,000 2018
Figures taken for May of each year
Just gone back another 4 years to 2010, LPL 4000 MAN 2000
Makes quite interesting reading as it looks as LPL has maxed out just about

 

[Silvercity]

Carl I don1t think it is quite as easy as that in that TAP serve a different market i:e much
more business/connecting to L/H Ryanair is a different kettle of fish and to a lesser extent
Easyjet which I know do carry a lot of business pax.
I have just had a look back through pax figures to LIS from LPL and MAN
over that last 4 years LPL approx 5000 a month maxed out at 5600 but now back
to 5000 as oppsed to MAN 11,000 in 2014 and 20,000 2018
Figures taken for May of each year
Just gone back another 4 years to 2010, LPL 4000 MAN 2000
Makes quite interesting reading as it looks as LPL has maxed out just about

It will be maxed out because the planes are full so you can't get any more passenger on the planes provided, Liverpool isn't daily . where as TAP is normally two a day , daily , plus whatever Ryanair does. I fly TAP often, to my mind it is the most important carrier to have operating out of MAN to Lisbon. I just think it's a backward step loosing a Liverpool link for NW passenger and visiters from Lisbon to Liverpool,for the moment at least.

 

[mullion]

But they could have added extra flights and have not so they maybe able to that
they are at the limit and we don`t know what the yield is

 

[Silvercity]

But they could have added extra flights and have not so they maybe able to that
they are at the limit and we don`t know what the yield is

We know the fares are generally high and we know the load factors is 90 % plus

 

[Silvercity]

You seem to be on a vain as if there is no demand for a service from Liverpool to Lisbon. I don't know why all the signs are there very much is a healthy use of this route. The fares are generally high, indeed the last day of operation in October your looking at
£90 something quid one way and over £200 the other.....certainly not low cost, plus the load factors bears this out too. Not forgetting Lisbon is super popular these days. There really is no reason why this route should move, it is after all still covering the NW from Liverpool.

As for adding more flights that's down to aircraft availability and we don't know that.

 

[Aviador]

Of course I think it is a poor decision by Easyjet, not just because it leaves Liverpool without this route and so reducing choice for NW passengers, but by moving this to Manchester , you now have 3 operators there FR, TAP and EZY. Out of the 3 which are most well known in the UK ? TAP is more likely to feel the impact more, and TAP offers more in terms of onward transfers.

Surely with three operators serving Manchester it will ultimately lead to reduce yeilds for all three operators serving there. Who knows why airlines do this. As I've said before, as easy as it is to get to Manchester airport the same applies in reverse.

 

[Silvercity]

Surely with three operators serving Manchester it will ultimately lead to reduce yeilds for all three operators serving there. Who knows why airlines do this. As I've said before, as easy as it is to get to Manchester airport the same applies in reverse.[

 

[Silvercity]

I would have thought the same with respect to yields from Manchester with 3 operators....a race to the bottom.

 

[mullion]

Doesn`t seem to be as a customer I was talking to said it had cost them a fortune,
without having a dig those LPL pax will now have to go via MAN

 

[Silvercity]

Doesn`t seem to be as a customer I was talking to said it had cost them a fortune,
without having a dig those LPL pax will now have to go via

Yes it's unwelcome, hopefully Blue Air or Ryanair will fill the void. A quick look in August travelling 15 to 29 Aug will set you back £ 328 plus bags.

 

[Aceshigh]

The harsh reality is that 50% of the Liverpool catchment is sea and then N Wales
If you are coming from the latter it's as easy to get to Manchester. Likewise if you live to the East of the city its as easy to get to Manchester.

 

[Silvercity]

The harsh reality is that 50% of the Liverpool catchment is sea and then N Wales
If you are coming from the latter it's as easy to get to Manchester. Likewise if you live to the East of the city its as easy to get to Manchester.

Nether the less the airport is doing well. Liverpool's catchment area includes Manchester and beyond. LBA will also attract passengers from Manchester area.

 

[Silvercity]

This is a new thread set up by Aviador called ' route development '....so perhaps suggestions and conversations about that would be more welcome.

 

[Aviador]

In my opinion Liverpool now needs to look beyond easyjet and possibly Ryanair too. I think they have already started this journey with Air Blue. Liverpool airport needs airlines that aren't Manchester centric so it can continue to develop it's route network. Leeds and Sheffield are only two hours away visa versa. Manchester is less than an hour away so the North is your oyster. Get the right airline(s) and it will catapult the airports into the next league.

 

[mullion]

Totally agree, I thought Wizz might have been the one but they are consolidating
so I`m not sure

 

[Silvercity]

In my opinion Liverpool now needs to look beyond easyjet and possibly Ryanair too. I think they have already started this journey with Air Blue. Liverpool airport needs airlines that aren't Manchester centric so it can continue to develop it's route network. Leeds and Sheffield are only two hours away visa versa. Manchester is less than an hour away so the North is your oyster. Get the right airline(s) and it will catapult the airports into the next league.

I think Blue Air an Wizz could be the two to look to for future development, there are plenty of gaps that are available, some mentioned in the ***Links to other Social Media platforms are not permitted***- survey, I'd see Copenhagen and Munich as good destinations for Liverpool both offer plenty for short breaks, plus good inbound potential. Zurich and Athens are two others i could think of ( plus seasonal extra Greek islands links) . I think there will still be additions added by Ryanair and Easyjet but Liverpool needs to look beyond these two incumbents.

 

[Liverpoola380]

Does anybody think Liverpool will be able to attract Jet 2 in the future?

 

[Jerry]

Does anybody think Liverpool will be able to attract Jet 2 in the future?

Probably not likely but you never know if LPL offers them a good deal they may be tempted. I think it all depends where Jet2 see them themselves going as a business. Will they end up more like TUI where they operate from lots of airports or will they just just stay at the ones they are now and say to passengers come to us.