Daily Direct Link from BHX to the US

[A400]

No offence but unless you work for BHX you shouldn't be haggling airlines to fly there we all like in some cases love BHX and Birmingham and the Black Country or the West Midlands and want our often forgotten about part of England to have the best. But unless you work for BHX leave the airlines alone, Delta might be looking at and phoned BHX and found BHX might not be great for there network. You don't know what BHX offers to Delta or other airlines. So leave the negotiation to the experts

There’s no harm in offering a suggestion is there?

I’m sure KJAY wants to see the best for BHX.

 

[DarloPlaneBoy]

There’s no harm in offering a suggestion is there?

I’m sure KJAY wants to see the best for BHX.

So do I but I'm saying he shouldn't really be phoning Airlines to ask them to fly here maybe if we all did Delta would fly here with a 767 they would see there is demand. But it is the Airports Job not KJAY's to be attracting Airlines. It would be like me up Dwight Gayle and asking him to come to West Brom 1 it looks Poor a fan has phoned rather than the club, 2 How do I know if Albion haven't already approached Gayle, 3 does he fit into Albion or do we fit into his plans, or in this Case Birmingham or Delta's Plans. There has to be a reason. If for example Delta had served BHX but pulled it sudden from schedule then I as to would us would have every right to phone them and ask them to return. Like I said to KJAY he probably doesn't know what he is doing him phoning Airlines rather than Birmingham Airport reps just looks poor and would actually probably put them of serving Birmingham as he phoned rather than The Boss of Birmingham or even someone who Delta share codes with Air Lingus say I think who could ask Air Lingus ah what's Birmingham Like we could do a deal with you guys to share codes if we fly from Birmingham to New York or Boston say. There's nothing about about asking them on twitter but just don't phone them that's BHX if they want Delta to join Job. Also if Delta did say yes to him what are BHX do what if the deal goes wrong what do Delta think then, what if Delta do an audit and find no one wants to fly from BHX to JFK and Boston as they travel to LHR or MAN there likely then to boost capacity there. BHX need to phone these Airlines not us. It does look bad if BHX aren't phoning these Airlines not that we know if they are or not. Delta could well be in discussion to fly here and try and make it work or they might have seen UA and AA pull out and think it won't work. But we don't know personally bringing things back on topic Air Lingus UK could work or An Emirates Stopover maybe even Qatar with there fleet trouble they know BHX they could for operational reasons send a Doha to Birmingham Flight say tonight as Standard station it here, then fly another one in bound for New York use BHX's former Monarch Engineering hangar matainence facilities and then send a Dreamliner to JFK. I reckon what we need is either TUI or Jet2 to do seasonal Flights cus New York at Christmas to many is magical to JFK on a 757/767/A321 or 787 or even get Icelandair or WOW Air to fly here and do a stopover. Maybe even SAS or Finnair Finnair could also attract BA Birmingham Flyers being in BA or One world frequent flyer Club to fly from BHX to Finland then onto JFK to get there points up.

 

[Karl C]

The best thing is to let people do what they want to do. Nobody has the right to tell other people what to do....period!

 

[rollo]

KJAY seems to be one of lifes optimists which is fine by me.

If any individual whether a enthusiast, spotterer or whatever contacts an airline suggesting a route to the USA or anywhere else they will receive a polite non committal reply.

Airports or more precisely the route development people will know precisely who to contact and present detailed analysis of demand and what the airport will do to support the airline plus whatever the region has to offer etc. all done out of public view.

They will speak to the decision makers and will have some information on what competing Airports are offering.

The biggest problem for BHX as has been discussed to death previously on here is its location equally spaced as its both in distance and travel time between the giant magnet of LHR and by far the largest regional airport in MAN, its a fact of life.

Its not going to change anytime soon we will struggle to obtain and retain a regular daily service to the USA in my view certainly from the US majors and the likes of BA and Virgin do not want to know. BHX has good connections going West via Amsterdam, Paris and Dublin. Why anyone would think of flying via to say JFK via Helsinki as suggested baffles me.

I'd love to be proved wrong and as you can see I'm more on the pessimistic side than our friend KJAY.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

No offence but unless you work for BHX you shouldn't be haggling airlines to fly there

KJAY is perfectly at liberty to contact airlines with suggested routes. At no point have they stated that they represent BHX or indeed work there. They are simply contacting the airlines as a member of the public. So, carry on KJAY, if that is your interest.

Although, I agree with rollo, that a 'polite non committal' reply will be given as this will be company policy.

Regards

Kevin

 

[Coathanger16]

Why anyone would think of flying via to say JFK via Helsinki as suggested baffles me.

Has anyone actually suggested that?

Finnair have got one of the best networks to Asia, arguably better than the Middle East carriers, so on that basis alone they're still worth pursuing.

 

[Karl C]

Yes...post #82...last paragraph

 

[A400]

So do I but I'm saying he shouldn't really be phoning Airlines to ask them to fly here maybe if we all did Delta would fly here with a 767 they would see there is demand. But it is the Airports Job not KJAY's to be attracting Airlines. It

I get the point that phoning them doesn’t mean they will start flights however I still don’t see the problem with it.

As others have mentioned maybe you should leave others to do as they please rather than telling what to do.

As for Jet2. They use to do New York during the Winter period (mainly for Christmas trips) and as i recall loads were always good.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

OK, lets draw a line under the subject of phoning airlines with suggestions and get back to the thread topic of 'Daily Direct Links from BHX to the USA'.

Thank you.

Kevin

 

[Coathanger16]

Yes...post #82...last paragraph

Sorry, maybe its just my computer but post #82 is just one big long paragraph so missed that one!

 

[DarloPlaneBoy]

I was thinking Helsinki as BA passengers might be fed up of them not guaranteed a flight. In fact I asked In the LHR thread why are BA are using Finnair aircraft response was because of Crew Shortages I was just thinking some BA Passengers who live in Birmingham might get fed up of BA being unreliable Although they were when I flew on them no delays half an hour early arriving back into the UK after a 5 hour 51 minute flight. So might want to still get Oneworld/BA Miles and Ranking Points so Finnair might be an option so then they can have a OneWorld Choice granted it is baffling I was thinking People stop via Iceland why not Helsinki.

Finnair are still someone we should pursue regardless. But what sort of aircraft would suit BHX to JFK or Boston or Toronto. Because maybe the reason American and United didn't work was because of using 757-200's which are obviously older and lesser equipped aircraft. American could have used an A332 less capacity than a 777-200ER, maybe even a 767-300ER. I feel that would be on Passengers minds. It is like me coming home from college I have an NX Daysaver usually anyway but If I didn't I could get the smaller Operator who runs on the same route as NXWM to where I need to go in this case from near Tettenhall to Wolverhampton would I no why there buses are in Plain White, the Interior has rock-hard seats the body panel gaps are woeful and there is barely any Identity to know who they are they could be a fake bus who has picked me up to do whatever. Whereas NXWM have a livery or at least Branding to know who they are. My point being if American flew to JFK on a 757-200 at the same time as a Delta Airbus A330-200 You would fly on the A330-200 if you had no idea about planes why it is bigger and looks more suited to flying transatlantic flights. Would American or United consider coming back, or have they given up in that case could Delta has BHX ever had Delta? Pick up the baton to JFK or Boston or Both and if it works maybe expand to huge network at Atlanta I believe only LHR has Atlanta flights. Or could we get a Qatar/Emirates Stopover

 

[jfy1999]

I was thinking Helsinki as BA passengers might be fed up of them not guaranteed a flight. In fact I asked In the LHR thread why are BA are using Finnair aircraft response was because of Crew Shortages I was just thinking some BA Passengers who live in Birmingham might get fed up of BA being unreliable Although they were when I flew on them no delays half an hour early arriving back into the UK after a 5 hour 51 minute flight. So might want to still get Oneworld/BA Miles and Ranking Points so Finnair might be an option so then they can have a OneWorld Choice granted it is baffling I was thinking People stop via Iceland why not Helsinki.

Finnair are still someone we should pursue regardless. But what sort of aircraft would suit BHX to JFK or Boston or Toronto. Because maybe the reason American and United didn't work was because of using 757-200's which are obviously older and lesser equipped aircraft. American could have used an A332 less capacity than a 777-200ER, maybe even a 767-300ER. I feel that would be on Passengers minds. It is like me coming home from college I have an NX Daysaver usually anyway but If I didn't I could get the smaller Operator who runs on the same route as NXWM to where I need to go in this case from near Tettenhall to Wolverhampton would I no why there buses are in Plain White, the Interior has rock-hard seats the body panel gaps are woeful and there is barely any Identity to know who they are they could be a fake bus who has picked me up to do whatever. Whereas NXWM have a livery or at least Branding to know who they are. My point being if American flew to JFK on a 757-200 at the same time as a Delta Airbus A330-200 You would fly on the A330-200 if you had no idea about planes why it is bigger and looks more suited to flying transatlantic flights. Would American or United consider coming back, or have they given up in that case could Delta has BHX ever had Delta? Pick up the baton to JFK or Boston or Both and if it works maybe expand to huge network at Atlanta I believe only LHR has Atlanta flights. Or could we get a Qatar/Emirates Stopover

If BA passengers to the USA switch to BHX they will most likely travel to the USA on Aer Lingus via Dublin.

I think the only thing that could have kept American and United flying to BHX would have been some extraordinary circumstances preventing them from flying into Heathrow. They used larger aircraft when they flew into Manchester but eventually pulled out, whereas Edinburgh continues to survive with old 757s. There’s clearly a deliberate strategy to funnel all their English traffic into Heathrow.

 

[DarloPlaneBoy]

Yeah clearly but could Delta potentially fly into Birmingham they seem to be different to Birmingham

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Yeah clearly but could Delta potentially fly into Birmingham they seem to be different to Birmingham

Sorry, but I can't understand what you are trying yo say. The sentence makes no sense. Who or what are different to Birmingham? And how?

Kevin

 

[mullion]

Delta are different than United or American because they own 49% of Virgin and Virgin don`t want to do BHX as RB has already said several years ago

 

[RichL]

Think the Branson / Virgin Atlantic thing needs to end. He stood down as CEO in 2001 and chairman in 2012. He is more interested in his space race with Bezos now than whether his (then) precious Virgin Atlantic would ever fly from Birmingham.

 

[mullion]

He still seems to have influence

 

[rollo]

Think the Branson / Virgin Atlantic thing needs to end. He stood down as CEO in 2001 and chairman in 2012. He is more interested in his space race with Bezos now than whether his (then) precious Virgin Atlantic would ever fly from Birmingham.

As much as we would like Virgin or anyone else to start serving the USA from BHX they have never shown the slightest interest in operating from Birmingham and in the past stated as much.

Delta do indeed own 49% of Virgin Atlantic the remaining 51% is owned by Virgin group who in turn are wholey owned by Virgin Group Holdings Ltd who have a single shareholder nobody needs to guess who. The upshot is Branson is absolutely able and entitled to have a major say in Virgin Atlantic decisions including whoever the CEO is.

Like I said yesterday I can't see any of the US majors or BA/Virgin operating transatlantic for the forseable - just my opinion.

As an aside the longest unbroken service from BHX to the US is our old friend Orlando must be well over 30 years and still massively undeserved compared to London and Manchester at three-weekly summer only, four next year by TUI according to a post by Mr Finkle, but we've been down that road before as well.

Good thread this with some interesting points now the nastiness has gone out of it.

 

[Coathanger16]

As an aside the longest unbroken service from BHX to the US is our old friend Orlando must be well over 30 years and still massively undeserved compared to London and Manchester at three-weekly summer only, four next year by TUI according to a post by Mr Finkle, but we've been down that road before as well.

Indeed the TUI product has grown considerably over the last few years. In fact May 2022 saw over twice as many people fly to Orlando than in May 2019 (Melbourne now vs Sanford then). No doubt that is in part due to the limited travel over the last few years, but if TUI are further increasing flights next year hopefully that's a good indication this higher passenger level is sustainable.

Like I said yesterday I can't see any of the US majors or BA/Virgin operating transatlantic for the forseable - just my opinion.

I'd certainly agree with this up to 2025. As for if/when it happens, I still think United is the most likely candidate:

1). They have already served BHX in the past, so have an extensive amount of data on the market

2). This year, they are offering their largest ever TATL network. 25% bigger than 2019, and serving more destinations than every other US airline combined (https://www.businesstraveller.com/b...er-record-transatlantic-offering-this-summer/)

3). Orders for 50 A321XLR due to arrive from 2024. Widely seen as a replacement for the B757 on TATL routes (for all airlines, not just UAL), and should make the route even more viable.

4). Has the largest hub in the NYC area for onward connections.

Obviously the only caveat to that, and something that we will never know, is on what terms United left in the first place. If it was UALs choice then its not a problem, but if they felt forced out because BHX preferred another airline, it'll be harder to get them back again.

 

[rollo]

Indeed the TUI product has grown considerably over the last few years. In fact May 2022 saw over twice as many people fly to Orlando than in May 2019 (Melbourne now vs Sanford then). No doubt that is in part due to the limited travel over the last few years, but if TUI are further increasing flights next year hopefully that's a good indication this higher passenger level is sustainable.



A significant part of the TUI expansion must be down to the fact that Marella an arm of TUI are basing a cruse ship at Port Canaverel requiring around 2,000+ passengers per week or the equivalent of up to 6/7 787 flights from the UK, also the move to Melbourne probably part of it as its nearer the coast, a bit of joined up thinking going on there.