A new airport.... South Yorkshire Airport City?

[Aviador]

DSA fans seemingly celebrating MME is back in profit, and anything can happen now!! and Peels fault DSA never could.... when it is categorically not back in profit, have a read, there is debt still absolute joke how they try spin the press/narrative to suit them.

They won't be able to spin it when their council is losing money hand over fist.

Where is Sheffield council in all this, are they supportive or staying largely quiet?

 

[752]

Mechanic posting a video saying there empty terminal is in better nick then most operational airports.. where are the new security scanner? where is the fuel farm / ILS? where are the fire trucks.. oh wait.. cost a few mill will that to get them up and running.

 

[Aviador]

Mechanic posting a video saying there empty terminal is in better nick then most operational airports.. where are the new security scanner? where is the fuel farm / ILS? where are the fire trucks.. oh wait.. cost a few mill will that to get them up and running.

Bricks and mortar alone don't make a fully functioning airport.

 

[pug]

They won't be able to spin it when their council is losing money hand over fist.

Where is Sheffield council in all this, are they supportive or staying largely quiet?

SYMCA are effectively the gatekeepers for the funding. The graft is being done by the Doncaster Council executive and the legal teams and consultants theyve employed to appoint an operator. Once this is done the Full Outline Business Case must be submitted to SYMCA who will scrutinise it and then decide whether funding is to be released or not. Basically it’ll have to tick all the boxes due to the nature of the funding. I do not believe SYMCA or Sheffield authorities have any hands on role in the work currently being undertaken barring the usual public support with statements on social media and in the news.

A significant investment has already been made in the legal and consultancy work completed. We do not yet know how much has been paid to Peel in rent as this information is commercially sensitive.

The language from Ros Jones updates would suggest the operator will bear the costs after a grace period which old council documents suggest could be up to 24 months. Remains to be seen whether that is what happens in actuality.

 

[Bantamzen]

It’s the #S#SaveDSAAVE Doncaster Sheffield airport Facebook group, always worth a read for a quick chuckle.

Thanks for posting the details, I've just has a nosey for a laugh! The claim from one poster that LBA haven't even got planning permission for the extension, and that they'll have to "tear it down" in particular made me chuckle.

 

[Aviador]

Thanks for posting the details, I've just has a nosey for a laugh! The claim from one poster that LBA haven't even got planning permission for the extension, and that they'll have to "tear it down" in particular made me chuckle.

A bit like the other deluded lot that think LBA need a planning application to serpass 5mppa.

 

[pug]

A bit like the other deluded lot that think LBA need a planning application to serpass 5mppa.

There is a serious point to this misinformation. 20 odd years ago things like Virgin being interested in DSA but being told to go away would have been idle pub gossip. Now it’s a case of someone posting something on the internet that on face value sounds plausible grows legs. I’m not trying to draw parallels with the riots of a couple of weeks ago but it all has the same root cause. Obviously in this instance it’s not going to do any harm at all, but it’s the ability to sway public opinion by sharing a narrative on social media that goes complete unchecked that frightens me. Perhaps that’s a topic for another forum but I’m sure you get my point. I’m in no doubt that at least some of the driving force behind CDC trying to reopen DSA stems from the myths and rumours surrounding the closure.

 

[Snackbar]

There is a serious point to this misinformation. 20 odd years ago things like Virgin being interested in DSA but being told to go away would have been idle pub gossip. Now it’s a case of someone posting something on the internet that on face value sounds plausible grows legs. I’m not trying to draw parallels with the riots of a couple of weeks ago but it all has the same root cause. Obviously in this instance it’s not going to do any harm at all, but it’s the ability to sway public opinion by sharing a narrative on social media that goes complete unchecked that frightens me. Perhaps that’s a topic for another forum but I’m sure you get my point. I’m in no doubt that at least some of the driving force behind CDC trying to reopen DSA stems from the myths and rumours surrounding the closure.

That was Trumps playbook…..if you keep telling the same lies eventually they become taken as the truth!

 

[pug]

That was Trumps playbook…..if you keep telling the same lies eventually they become taken as the truth!

Same could be said for the B word, but that was many years of disenfranchisement - and untruths going unchecked - in the making. To a lay person though, an airport just needs a long runway and it can be an international airport no problem. The issue of demand, catchment areas, competition, airline overheads etc just doesn’t even come into the equation. I’ve even seen people comparing it to supermarkets being close to each other.. Just not comparable.

 

[Snackbar]

Same could be said for the B word, but that was many years of disenfranchisement - and untruths going unchecked - in the making. To a lay person though, an airport just needs a long runway and it can be an international airport no problem. The issue of demand, catchment areas, competition, airline overheads etc just doesn’t even come into the equation. I’ve even seen people comparing it to supermarkets being close to each other.. Just not comparable.

But of course it was all Peels fault the airport failed…..they didn’t want it in the first placed, never spent any money developing or marketing it….Add to that their handling fees were ludicrously high compared to every airport in the world so of course it failed. All they wanted it for was the mineral rights which sit beneath the runway…..I hear there is a rich seem of lithium just waiting to be exploited.
Now it’s in the right hands British Airways, Emirates, Quantas, American Airlines, Delta, Air France, KLM etc., are all waiting to come on board….the airport is going to be eclipse LHR and become the UKs main hub as it only 2 hrs on the train from London!!

Might seem completely barking but this is just some of things which have been said on the #savedsa thr#SaveDSA

 

[pug]

But of course it was all Peels fault the airport failed…..they didn’t want it in the first placed, never spent any money developing or marketing it….Add to that their handling fees were ludicrously high compared to every airport in the world so of course it failed. All they wanted it for was the mineral rights which sit beneath the runway…..I hear there is a rich seem of lithium just waiting to be exploited.
Now it’s in the right hands British Airways, Emirates, Quantas, American Airlines, Delta, Air France, KLM etc., are all waiting to come on board….the airport is going to be eclipse LHR and become the UKs main hub as it only 2 hrs on the train from London!!

Might seem completely barking but this is just some of things which have been said on the #savedsa thr#SaveDSA

Yes it’s a theme for some. The bits I find troublesome are the suggestions Peel didn’t invest in it. Now this may be the case in a broad sense, when other airports are invested in. The problem at DSA was that the growth never materialised so there was no reason to invest, airports are invested in to cater to growth not necessarily to generate growth. Saying that Peel didn’t do it but someone else would is disingenuous, but it’s also false as Peel built the new departure gates with bridges due to the long term agreement they had with Wizz which Wizz reneged on.

Anyone who wants to dress it up as an abject failure by Peel is a fool. They had some great people running the place, some who’d spent many years at Peel developing LPL. They left for brighter prospects elsewhere.

 

[Snackbar]

Yes it’s a theme for some. The bits I find troublesome are the suggestions Peel didn’t invest in it. Now this may be the case in a broad sense, when other airports are invested in. The problem at DSA was that the growth never materialised so there was no reason to invest, airports are invested in to cater to growth not necessarily to generate growth. Saying that Peel didn’t do it but someone else would is disingenuous, but it’s also false as Peel built the new departure gates with bridges due to the long term agreement they had with Wizz which Wizz reneged on.

Anyone who wants to dress it up as an abject failure by Peel is a fool. They had some great people running the place, some who’d spent many years at Peel developing LPL. They left for brighter prospects elsewhere.

As you say Peel spent millions on DSA…..they promoted the airport through TV adverts, sponsorship of Sheffield Utd, Sheffield arena and even the Great Yorkshire Show…how many airports have you heard of doing similar? People seem to have very short term memories or just chose to ignore the facts that don’t support their narrative…

 

[rabbitfoot]

As you say Peel spent millions on DSA…..they promoted the airport through TV adverts, sponsorship of Sheffield Utd, Sheffield arena and even the Great Yorkshire Show…how many airports have you heard of doing similar? People seem to have very short term memories or just chose to ignore the facts that don’t support their narrative…

and they made millions through peel land and property at DSA. how much do you think Barrat paid for 14 acres there, to build 4 bed houses in 2013 as example. and if they had not bought the airport , they would have not made the land deals what have more than covered any loses at the airport. now they are stuck with a land bank that is worthless to them, CDC will never let them build there or their south yorkshire based company either.

 

[pug]

and they made millions through peel land and property at DSA. how much do you think Barrat paid for 14 acres there, to build 4 bed houses in 2013 as example. and if they had not bought the airport , they would have not made the land deals what have more than covered any loses at the airport. now they are stuck with a land bank that is worthless to them, CDC will never let them build there or their south yorkshire based company either.

If they couldn’t make any money from breaking up the land on non-airport parts they would never have built the airport, nobody would. It’s a non-argument only designed to distract. The airport is not part of the wider estate and never will be either. The council would have no choice if the airport doesn’t reopen. The new government have an ambitious house building target, DSA is prime for that.

 

[rabbitfoot]

If they couldn’t make any money from breaking up the land on non-airport parts they would never have built the airport, nobody would. It’s a non-argument only designed to distract. The airport is not part of the wider estate and never will be either. The council would have no choice if the airport doesn’t reopen. The new government have an ambitious house building target, DSA is prime for that.

you could not be more wrong. the council will never let them build there. they do not need building land in doncaster, in fact in all of south yorkshire. they could build 200-300, 000 in south yorkshire in brownfield sites alone. land is one thing south yorkshire is not short of. and the area from where peel sold the land to barrat to the begining of the great yorkshire way will be built on first, and peel do not own that. they could build 100 times more houses just there. so you argument is BS

 

[Aviador]

I find it bizarre #SaveDSA keep attacking Leeds Bradford as if LBA has been the sole beneficiary of the demise of DSA when in actual fact East Midlands has benefited the most followed by Manchester airport.

Looking back through the forum, it's not long since people were saying passenger services at East Midlands had plateaued and the airport would be concentrating on growing its cargo ops. Today East Midlands is embarking on a similar transformation project to that seen at Leeds Bradford with over £100m being pumped into rejuvenating the airport's passenger facilities. Not forgetting that at the same time Manchester Airport is pressing ahead with its own transformational project. Basically all the airports surrounding DSA are investing heavily to ensure they keep their market share.

 

[pug]

you could not be more wrong. the council will never let them build there. they do not need building land in doncaster, in fact in all of south yorkshire. they could build 200-300, 000 in south yorkshire in brownfield sites alone. land is one thing south yorkshire is not short of. and the area from where peel sold the land to barrat to the begining of the great yorkshire way will be built on first, and peel do not own that. they could build 100 times more houses just there. so you argument is BS

It’s not BS, if CDC fail in their attempts to get DSA reopened, Peel will be able to apply for planning permission to build on it if they so wish. In fact it wouldn’t be Peel doing the building, they’d break it up and sell by the lot. As there is a housing shortage you can bet some of it would go towards that. There’s little legally CDC could do to block any change of use if the land is not going to be used as an airport, it wouldn’t be in their interests to block a redevelopment either, because otherwise they would be paying a lease of as yet undisclosed amount to Peel for 125 years with absolutely no return on it. Do you honestly believe that would happen?

Additionally, your points about available sources of alternative revenue hold no weight since the airport doesn’t have much space to expand its real estate, assuming that is the land being leased then it looks to me like it’s just the critical airport infrastructure, terminal, hangars and car park which is part of the lease. So how do you expect the new operator to generate such revenue to ‘cover the costs of the airport’?. Again, just distraction and diversion tactics as per usual.

 

[rabbitfoot]

wrong again. all CDC will need to do is say they have places in plan to build houses, where they are planning infrastructure development schools, surgery etc.. . and peel will not want to have a problem with not only CDC , but the rest of the areas council. even though they are mainly a northwest player, they are the main share holder in the harworth group who own large brownfield sites in south yorkshire through there previous ownership formerly COALFIELD RESOURCES PLC ,formerly UK COAL PLC formerly,RJB MINING PLC.formerly R.J. BUDGE (HOLDINGS) LIMITED the last being who built sheffield airport.

 

[pug]

wrong again. all CDC will need to do is say they have places in plan to build houses, where they are planning infrastructure development schools, surgery etc.. . and peel will not want to have a problem with not only CDC , but the rest of the areas council. even though they are mainly a northwest player, they are the main share holder in the harworth group who own large brownfield sites in south yorkshire through there previous ownership formerly COALFIELD RESOURCES PLC ,formerly UK COAL PLC formerly,RJB MINING PLC.formerly R.J. BUDGE (HOLDINGS) LIMITED the last being who built sheffield airport.

It doesn’t matter, if Peel have alternative plans for the site they would be able to apply for planning on it. If CDC or any other authority blocked it they would appeal and most likely win. They may not build on all of it, but the runway and hard stands would be sold off for hardcore pretty swiftly. As the National Government has an ambitious policy for house building, there wouldn’t be much opposition to such a hypothetical scenario. The Council would be backed into a corner. After all, there is no use paying for acres of land sitting doing nothing. Why do you think they’ve put an early break clause in it? Dont be so naive.

Peel know it’s not viable, but they are giving the Council benefit of the doubt. They are gaining income and retaining influence by playing along with the plan. If it happens to work out as planned then Peel will be happy as it would bolster their plans for the surrounding area, if it fails Peel will be happy as they’ll be able to look for alternative uses of the site with the support of CDC. If it sits doing nothing the only loser will be the local council tax payer if under your scenario the council continue to lease it but do absolutely nothing with it.

 

[rabbitfoot]

wrong again. all CDC will need to do is say they have places in plan to build houses, where they are planning infrastructure development schools, surgery etc.. . and peel will not want to have a problem with not only CDC , but the rest of the areas council. even though they are mainly a northwest player, they are the main share holder in the harworth group who own large brownfield sites in south yorkshire through there previous ownership formerly COALFIELD RESOURCES PLC ,formerly UK COAL PLC formerly,RJB MINING PLC.formerly R.J. BUDGE (HOLDINGS) LIMITED the last being who built sheffield airport.

i do not mean to be seen to having a go at you pug, but as you no i known little about the aviation, but you thinking they will have a legal case to build there is fantasy because you know nothing about the construction industry. who owned the land where the iport was built ? and had was allowed to sell land next to it for houses? on a side note sheffield airport was originally to built on the other side of the parkway