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[Sherburnflyer92]

I believe the graph is a typo error - should be 3x A321CEO.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Still doubtful on CDG as it deviates from strategy and LBA is the only airport with that route now. Would of course depend how viable they see putting extra seats on it when compared to say adding more flights to the Canaries or various Greek Islands which is where their area of focus is. The CDG is a useful space filler for the 300.

The aircraft type doesn't matter as much. As I've said previously the cost of running a 300 to 800 is indifferent however they can suddenly sell 41 more seats and 41 more holidays.

CDG is not a useful space filler - airlines don't do useful space fillers in the schedule. They have to turn a profit and bring in the revenue required otherwise they get chopped. If Paris was just "a useful space filler" I would hazard a guess it would of been chopped leaving a nice turn around between a morning rotation and later afternoon / early evening rotation.

Considering it hasn't been chopped, changes to the 737-800 during the winter months, suggests Paris is turns a good profit for Jet2 to keep operating at LBA when the 737-800 takes over the flying from the 737-300.

The only thing I see changing is the way that they've built the schedules on the 300 fleet changing when going over to the 800. Majority of the aircraft on the 300 fleet do 6 flights for example:

LBA Reus LBA, LBA Nice LBA, LBA Palma LBA
LBA Palma LBA, LBA Paris LBA, LBA Alicante, LBA
LBA Alicante, LBA Jersey LBA, LBA Ibiza LBA.

 

[pug]

The aircraft type doesn't matter as much. As I've said previously the cost of running a 300 to 800 is indifferent however they can suddenly sell 41 more seats and 41 more holidays.

CDG is not a useful space filler - airlines don't do useful space fillers in the schedule. They have to turn a profit and bring in the revenue required otherwise they get chopped. If Paris was just "a useful space filler" I would hazard a guess it would of been chopped leaving a nice turn around between a morning rotation and later afternoon / early evening rotation.

Considering it hasn't been chopped, changes to the 737-800 during the winter months, suggests Paris is turns a good profit for Jet2 to keep operating at LBA when the 737-800 takes over the flying from the 737-300.

The only thing I see changing is the way that they've built the schedules on the 300 fleet changing when going over to the 800. Majority of the aircraft on the 300 fleet do 6 flights for example:

LBA Reus LBA, LBA Nice LBA, LBA Palma LBA
LBA Palma LBA, LBA Paris LBA, LBA Alicante, LBA
LBA Alicante, LBA Jersey LBA, LBA Ibiza LBA.

Airlines absolutely do space fillers and Jet2 do with the shorter sectors. There are less of them now than there were 15 years ago but they do still exist in the network. Like you say CDG will stay on the 800 if there is enough demand for it through the city break market but I certainly wouldn’t be holding my breath on that one. Not every flight makes a profit.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Airlines absolutely do space fillers and Jet2 do with the shorter sectors. There are less of them now than there were 15 years ago but they do still exist in the network. Like you say CDG will stay on the 800 if there is enough demand for it through the city break market but I certainly wouldn’t be holding my breath on that one. Not every flight makes a profit.

Disagree but I'll agree to disagree. Every route needs to make money and turn a profit. That's the bottom line. I agree not every flight makes profit but they won't keep a flights hanging about if it isn't making money. With high volume routes (Tenerife, Palma, Alicante, Dalaman etc) they can consolidate. Other's routes will be dropped.

Paris has to make money for Jet2 otherwise it'll be chopped or already have been chopped. The costs associated with flying aircraft, crew costs, handling costs at Paris, overflight costs on top of contracting hotel rooms must mean it makes profit otherwise they would have chopped Paris ages ago. Amsterdam is not an example to look at, as I've stated, the route is notorious for last minute bookings and the environmental BS over there.

Jet2 was very quick to drop Pula in Croatia before bringing back this summer after a 5 year hiatus. Clearly was not making money and a profit so they got rid of it. Proof, if anything, Paris must make a profit from Leeds as Jet2 will cut the dead wood if making the required base line.

Santoirini in Leeds did not hang around too long out of Leeds - another clear indication it didn't make a profit or the desired profit.

Mykonos as a whole set of routes from all the UK network got cut. Again another indication that it didn't make a profit or the desired profit.

Point I'm making is Jet2 don't mess about. So as a I say, airlines dont have "filler routes" for fun.

 

[pug]

@Sherburnflyer92 the destinations you mentioned that have been pulled rely more on beds than bums on seats now. It’s all very convoluted and I won’t pretend to understand the intricacies.

I’m sure you’re correct in that CDG is popular, but strategically it’s a bit of an odd one out. Seems to me that if Jet2 did decide when the 300’s go to pull it that it would be the perfect route for easyjet to take over. Obviously I could be wrong but given it’s the only base they operate a CDG from and it’s the only base that has 300’s based at the airport it kinda stands to reason that this is why. Not in any way suggesting it’s a poor performer or that indeed that route doesn’t make a profit (but reiterate that sins don’t). The 300’s are employed on a select number of short routes and they need to keep busy…

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

@Sherburnflyer92 the destinations you mentioned that have been pulled rely more on beds than bums on seats now. It’s all very convoluted and I won’t pretend to understand the intricacies.

Leeds was dropped yet Manchester got an increase in frequency. That isn't due to beds as it is the same number of seats going. It was down to the fact that Leeds - Santorini didn't make profit that was desired or at all. Despite loads been varying from 100 one week to 170 the other.

Sadly with loads and LF how much of that is sold as a loss leader is not known. The fact that this route lasted for one season is a clear indication it didn't make it out of Leeds.

The 300's also allow for high frequency on high volume routes (Palma, Alicante and Faro) whilst operating other city routes that will be good on the 800.

Looking way they utilise the 800's out of LBA v the 300 suggests that the 800 priorities are longer routes and therefore limited space for the shorter routes or city routes on the 800 so they go to the 300 along with the high frequency routes. Either way what's coming will be interesting.

 

[White Heather]

Leeds was dropped yet Manchester got an increase in frequency. That isn't due to beds as it is the same number of seats going. It was down to the fact that Leeds - Santorini didn't make profit that was desired or at all. Despite loads been varying from 100 one week to 170 the other.

Sadly with loads and LF how much of that is sold as a loss leader is not known. The fact that this route lasted for one season is a clear indication it didn't make it out of Leeds.

The 300's also allow for high frequency on high volume routes (Palma, Alicante and Faro) whilst operating other city routes that will be good on the 800.

Looking way they utilise the 800's out of LBA v the 300 suggests that the 800 priorities are longer routes and therefore limited space for the shorter routes or city routes on the 800 so they go to the 300 along with the high frequency routes. Either way what's coming will be interesting.

Olbia was another route dropped from LBA but still operatng from MAN (& STN)?

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Olbia was another route dropped from LBA but still operatng from MAN (& STN)?

Was that dropped when they operated it with a stop in Edinburgh? Or when it returned has it quietly been dropped?

 

[Matt995]

Olbia was another route dropped from LBA but still operatng from MAN (& STN)?

and BHX

 

[White Heather]

Was that dropped when they operated it with a stop in Edinburgh? Or when it returned has it quietly been dropped?

As I recall, it was down to operate direct but then quietly axed from the schedules before the summer season even began.

 

[pug]

Leeds was dropped yet Manchester got an increase in frequency. That isn't due to beds as it is the same number of seats going. It was down to the fact that Leeds - Santorini didn't make profit that was desired or at all. Despite loads been varying from 100 one week to 170 the other.

Sadly with loads and LF how much of that is sold as a loss leader is not known. The fact that this route lasted for one season is a clear indication it didn't make it out of Leeds.

The 300's also allow for high frequency on high volume routes (Palma, Alicante and Faro) whilst operating other city routes that will be good on the 800.

Looking way they utilise the 800's out of LBA v the 300 suggests that the 800 priorities are longer routes and therefore limited space for the shorter routes or city routes on the 800 so they go to the 300 along with the high frequency routes. Either way what's coming will be interesting.

Santorini will always be a tricky one. No idea why because I’ve been a couple of times and love it but a lot of people seem to think it’s a once in a lifetime type of place and only good if you have stacks of cash. Couldn’t be further from the truth, maybe tricky to change perceptions though because an airport the size of LBA should be able to comfortably service at least a weekly flight. But if they aren’t filling beds it will be a problem for them, because they have contracted hotels to satisfy and if they aren’t they will end up with hotels having empty rooms which will impact relations with those third parties.

CDG is a bit different, it does have the regular city break crowd of course but it’s also a bit of a legacy from Jet2 as a low-cost seat only airline. Clearly it does well enough to still be served but I’m just skeptical as to whether they’d be able to justify it on an 800 considering the other destinations that could be served using that increased capacity.

I don’t know for sure if course, it’s just my opinion. I do know that if Jet2 did stop serving it then someone wise would step in, think that’s a given!

 

[michael]

A quick look on Google suggests Jet2 B737-800's have 189 seats and Easyjet A320's have 180 to 186 seats. Assuming Easy eventually get rid of their A319's to me there's little logic in saying Jet2 can't (or wouldn't) make money on the route using the 738 yet Easy could make money with the 320 when there's only 3 seats difference.
Granted Easyjet have a base in CDG but that, to me, is the only difference thereby allowing them to use a CDG based aircraft.
And, of course, Ryanair seem to have made their bucks with an all B738 fleet for many years without an issue - different business model I know.
Hopefully Jet2 will stay on the route and prosper.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Santorini will always be a tricky one. No idea why because I’ve been a couple of times and love it but a lot of people seem to think it’s a once in a lifetime type of place and only good if you have stacks of cash. Couldn’t be further from the truth, maybe tricky to change perceptions though because an airport the size of LBA should be able to comfortably service at least a weekly flight. But if they aren’t filling beds it will be a problem for them, because they have contracted hotels to satisfy and if they aren’t they will end up with hotels having empty rooms which will impact relations with those third parties.

CDG is a bit different, it does have the regular city break crowd of course but it’s also a bit of a legacy from Jet2 as a low-cost seat only airline. Clearly it does well enough to still be served but I’m just skeptical as to whether they’d be able to justify it on an 800 considering the other destinations that could be served using that increased capacity.

I don’t know for sure if course, it’s just my opinion. I do know that if Jet2 did stop serving it then someone wise would step in, think that’s a given!

There are other destinations which are resolutely served by -300's which dont rely on 'Jet2 Holiday' input. I fly to Bergerac a couple of times a year and its always full, it should be at least 2 a week. I can only think that given the choice of a 2nd flight to Bergerac or using the aircraft to Alicante they will choose the latter because they make more money from a full load of 'holiday' customers than 'seat only'. If so, is there any future for 'seat only' destinations?

 

[pug]

A quick look on Google suggests Jet2 B737-800's have 189 seats and Easyjet A320's have 180 to 186 seats. Assuming Easy eventually get rid of their A319's to me there's little logic in saying Jet2 can't (or wouldn't) make money on the route using the 738 yet Easy could make money with the 320 when there's only 3 seats difference.
Granted Easyjet have a base in CDG but that, to me, is the only difference thereby allowing them to use a CDG based aircraft.
And, of course, Ryanair seem to have made their bucks with an all B738 fleet for many years without an issue - different business model I know.
Hopefully Jet2 will stay on the route and prosper.

Nobody is saying they don’t make money on it, I did say that some flights have traditionally not been profitable but have held strategic value. Jet2 are moving away from seat only, easyjet are not. It therefore stands to reason that if they are selling a lot of seat only on the CDG and they aren’t making a ton of money on it then they may feel that there is value in redeploying the capacity when the 300’s go. Easyjet therefore being seat only (primarily) would in my view be better placed to serve more than just the city break market with similar sized aircraft because of their business model.

 

[Len Fish]

My son and family are currently on flight LS213 to Antalya. The Captain announced that there is someone on board who has a passport due to expire outside of what is required by the Turkish authorities. They don’t know who it is but have asked all passengers to check their passports. No one owned up and the aircraft is flooded with Jet2 staff checking. It appears they have now found the culprit and have narrowly avoided missing their slot as they’re taxiing out as I write this. Nothing beats a Jet2 holiday!

 

[SierraHotel]

Jet2 cuts winter flight capacity in ‘difficult’ market

https://share.google/GCHRh5KMbF4D4NxgT

 

[White Heather]

Jet2 cuts winter flight capacity in ‘difficult’ market

https://share.google/GCHRh5KMbF4D4NxgT

200,000 seats cut across the entire winter and all bases. Lets hope good old LBA bookings are ahead of the rest and we dont see too many flight cuts. They could always transfer flights back on to the 300s (lol) instead of the bigger 800s if they need to cut capacity.
Shares dropped 20% apparently, but they went up quite a lot due to the bumper summer. What goes up, must come down, including aeroplanes and airline shares.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

The news love this don't they - "doom and gloom". Reality check incoming:

9% increase on seat capacity on the winter previous. Of course a good chunk of this will be driven by new bases at London Luton and Bournemouth. Still it's a good indication of the strength of the company.

It's only 200,000 reduction in seats - this figure is there and back. So a bit of maths:

200,000 seat reduction across a 22 week period - 9,090 seats.
Across the 11 bases - 826 each base. (Discounting LTN and BOH as they are only 1 or 2 based units operating depending on day of week)
Across 7 days of the week - 118 seats a day (barely a 737-800 a day).

A reality check also - looking at where Jet2 operated the A330 last winter it would appear that they are not operating that aircraft for this winter. I'm lead to believe that is gone and is replaced by the A321 (232 seats).

It didn't operate all the week, Thursday to Sunday usually so approximately 8 flights.

A reduction from 327 to 232 = 95 seats.
95 x 8 Flights = 760 weekly seats removed
760 weekly seats x 22 Week season = 16,720 seats removed (8.36% of seats that they have removed are from Manchester that we know of).

So if we 200,000 seats - 16,720 due to the A330 not been used in Manchester = 183,280 seats
183,280 seats across a 22 week period = 8,330 seats
8,330 seats across the remaining 10 bases = 833 seats
833 seats at each base across 7 days = 119
(Or 2 there and back flights withdrawn from each base per week over winter).

Jet2 have launched Luton to Geneva so not all is doom and gloom.

And are we all surprised by the economic outlook - Gilts at a record high (no outrage) and a chancellor (anti Leeds/ anti LBA airport might I also add) completely out of her depth.

 

[pilot_737]

It’s still more seats on sale than last year. Just less than they were expecting. Not sure why it’s worded as is and then obviously the stock market / media have picked up on that and turned in into doom and gloom.

The colleague share save scheme matures next month. It was inevitable the price was going to drop a month before due to some market news! always the way!

 

[GolfFox]

It’s still more seats on sale than last year. Just less than they were expecting. Not sure why it’s worded as is and then obviously the stock market / media have picked up on that and turned in into doom and gloom.

The colleague share save scheme matures next month. It was inevitable the price was going to drop a month before due to some market news! always the way!

Oh bad luck - chance to improve y then??