CAA Provisional Statistics Update

[White Heather]

In response to a question at the last meeting (will LBA increase passenger numbers through more flights or through larger aircraft?), his response was 'both'. There's clearly an expectation of more carriers, more flights but also an eventual increase in the size of aircraft based here, particularly by Jet2.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Larger based aircraft will definitely help.

Jet2
7x Boeing 737-300 replaced with either Boeing 737-8MG's or the new Airbus A320NEO's
10x Boeing 737-800 replaced with Airbus A321NEO's

Ryanair
2x more Boeing 737-800's replaced by Boeing 737-MAX8's or even the MAX10's.

Now as for new stands, when the built.
3x Airbus A320NEO's from either Wizz Air UK or easyJet would be nice. If not I bet Jet2 & Ryanair could easily fill them with NEO's and MAX's

Unfortunately as WH says, it wont be practical to base more aircraft at Leeds even if new stands are built. Growth can only come from aircraft operating between 07:00 and 23:00, so realistically non based aircraft.

 

[lbaspotter]

Unfortunately as WH says, it wont be practical to base more aircraft at Leeds even if new stands are built. Growth can only come from aircraft operating between 07:00 and 23:00, so realistically non based aircraft.

I think you need to re-read white heathers last post.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I think you need to re-read white heathers last post.

I was referring to this:
'LBA cannot expand further via based carriers, the only way of expanding further would be more non based flights'

The quota restrictions mean that any new based aircraft would have to depart after 07:00 and return by 23:00 which isnt an attractive or economical proposition..

 

[lbaspotter]

I was referring to this:
'LBA cannot expand further via based carriers, the only way of expanding further would be more non based flights'

The quota restrictions mean that any new based aircraft would have to depart after 07:00 and return by 23:00 which isnt an attractive or economical proposition..

That's unless of course as "LBA" see it either the Boeing 737MAX, AirbusNEO or Embrear E2's don't count towards the quota.?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

That's unless of course as "LBA" see it either the Boeing 737MAX, AirbusNEO or Embrear E2's don't count towards the quota.?

Yes, LBA with the councils agreement.

 

[White Heather]

Yes, LBA with the councils agreement.

Or the Court's agreement if it comes to that.

 

[Finger66]

@White Heather are suggesting there is a legal challenge already been considered to the vague and antiquated quota that is in place?

 

[White Heather]

@White Heather are suggesting there is a legal challenge already been considered to the vague and antiquated quota that is in place?

No. I'm suggesting though, based on what has been said several times, that the airport may be prepared to challenge the Council if they dont see sense. If the quota excludes turbo prop aircraft, then that has to be noise related. It therefore makes no sense to include new aircraft that are also much quieter just because they are jet aircraft. If they don't exceed the noise levels permitted then they should be excluded from any quota.
Apart from anything else, the airports future growth is, in part at least, jeopardised if the MAX and NEO are not excluded from the night quota. I can't see how LBA can just meekly accept a negative decision , especially if the meaning of the planning consent from 1994 is even remotely vague.
Which it is from what I'm told.

Just my opinion. I'm not in possession of any information on this.

 

[Stagman]

June

Aircraft Movements
2019 3,734
2023 3,964

Terminal Passengers
2019 449,471
2023 447,022

Increase on aircraft movements and pretty much passengers back to normal against pre covid (June 23-June 19).

Passenger wise:
Newcastle is about 47k down, Teesside 10k up, East Midlands 48k down, Manchester 170k down, Liverpool 83k down and Heathrow 205k down.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

The problem with 'Aircraft Movements', is that it does not take into account aircraft size, A much more representative comparison, would be seats available in June 2023, compared to June 2019 and an overall load factor for the months being compared.

 

[Stagman]

When taken into account, each movement brings income into the coffers whether it is a full blown jumbo, a biz jet or cargo flight, it all goes into the pot. A lot of people forget theres more to airports than just public passenger flights.

 

[radar]

The increase in movements vs a drop in passengers is probably accounted for by an increase in bizjets since Doncaster closed.

 

[Finger66]

@radar exactly my thoughts. Was going to post something similar until I noticed you had beaten me to it

 

[White Heather]

The increase in movements vs a drop in passengers is probably accounted for by an increase in bizjets since Doncaster closed.

I think the increase in bizjets started during the recovery from the pandemic rather than due to DSA closing. There was already a significant increase before November 2022. The use of Jet2 737 300s and loss if the 757s will also have had an impact on movements v passenger throughput.

 

[Finger66]

Still in no way takes away the amazing recovery LBA has had though

 

[radar]

I think the increase in bizjets started during the recovery from the pandemic rather than due to DSA closing. There was already a significant increase before November 2022. The use of Jet2 737 300s and loss if the 757s will also have had an impact on movements v passenger throughput.

But the number of 737-300 movements has reduced since 2019, not increased. And I think the 757s left prior to 2019? (Not 100% on that).

Also, take into account the disappearance of smaller aircraft like Dash-8s and Jetstreams since 2019, and the trend should be for fewer movements per pax, not more.

My money is still on the bizjets - there was a noticeable uptick in Multiflight movements when Doncaster closed.

 

[lbaspotter]

The big up tick in bizjets movements at LBA really started once Leeds Utd hit the Premier League and the fact that Covid restrictions remained in place for so long meaning fewer commercial flights were operating.
But since they got relegated it doesn't seem to have effected us too much, so as you say @radar it may also be due to the closure of DSA. It's worth noting we also seem to get quite a few movements to several airports around the London area, so I wonder if the lack of scheduled service is hurting us too?

Come on British Airways, get that Heathrow service restored!

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I think bizjets are the reason. Movements alone are not an indication of an airports success. They have to be placed into a context. I think there was a post of a press release a month or so ago about Blackpool airport, heres an extract which illustrates what I mean:

In 2022, the (Blackpool) airport handled 37,259 aircraft movements (take offs & landings), ranking the airport busier than Teesside International, Leeds Bradford, Coventry, Bournemouth and Southampton.

Shame they had no commercial flights and therefore very few passengers!

 

[White Heather]

I think bizjets are the reason. Movements alone are not an indication of an airports success. They have to be placed into a context. I think there was a post of a press release a month or so ago about Blackpool airport, heres an extract which illustrates what I mean:

In 2022, the (Blackpool) airport handled 37,259 aircraft movements (take offs & landings), ranking the airport busier than Teesside International, Leeds Bradford, Coventry, Bournemouth and Southampton.

Shame they had no commercial flights and therefore very few passengers!

Exactly. It could have been the same aircraft doing circuits all day every day.....!