Bristol Airport - Route News

[Marko1]

Any chance we could have some good news soon? Just seen jet 2 have released a huge range of new routes from Bhx and what has happened to wizz and wow ?

 

[Jerry]

As my main aviation interest is in the economics of the subject I'd be fascinated to know the pros and cons that influenced Qatar in their decision. Unfortunately, I doubt that I ever will.

Yes i think it is interesting and both have their pros and cons and you'd have thought BRS would come out on top but for a change it was CWL! I agree I doubt we will ever know the reason that swayed Qatar to CWL rather than BRS.

 

[BRSregular]

7 hours on an A320? No thanks!

I wonder if it will affect KLMs offering from
CWL at all? Probably not but if it did, there might be some silver lining from BRS. KLM might place larger aircraft on the BRS routes?

Anyway, it's all good for competition and that lowers costs for the passenger in time.
I wonder if Etihad might think about directly competing with Qatar with a BRS route? I know who I'd prefer to fly with...

 

[Marko1]

Anyone know how we got on at routes Europe this week ? We really need a few new airlines don't we ? How will the performance of the new 737max affect ops at brs. Given that tui will have them soon to replace the 757, if there's restrictions on their use that would be of concern. Perhaps it's time to start thinking about that runway again and cargo ops.

 

[ljm104]

I'd be surprised if Qatar really did launch the service with an A320. As far as I know long haul operations with narrow bodies (excluding 757) tend to mostly be premium only cabins, otherwise the numbers don't stack up. An A330 200 or 787 seem more likely.

Whilst I agree that an MEB3 from BRS launching in competition to Qatar is now unlikely, it is not impossible. Eitihad do operate 787-9 and A350s which may be workable. Central Scotlands two airports support at least 5 daily rotations with the MEB3 all in direct competition. I recognise that the populations are larger of course.

I've travelled to the far east 4 times in the last 4 years and have always had to travel via London (and once Newcastle). As it happens I'm about to move to Edinburgh, but have long wished for a MEB3 link from Bristol frustrated by the expense and hassle of London hubs. KLM never seems competitive price wise out of BRS for some reason, and LH (via BMI) is even worse. It's as though KLM have looked at the cost of traveling to London, and adjusted their prices accordingly and adding 'convienence premium'.

Given my move north my use of BRS is probably about to quadruple as I keep in touch with my Bristol friends and family so I'll sustain a keen interest in its development.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I can't think there would be demand for two concurrent MEB3 services from Severnside.

I agree with you about KLM and bmir/LH. When my wife and I fly to Australia each year I always check the prices using the above airlines from BRS but they are never in the game. Fare price, timings, overall journey time all make the consideration a non-starter.

In 2009 our daughter, son-in-law and our two grandsons emigrated to Australia. They lived in Cheshire and found the best price (they flew business class) from MAN was with Lufthansa via Frankfurt (aircraft change) and Singapore (aircraft change), with the last leg Singapore to Melbourne on a Singapore Airlines A380. Just doesn't work that well from BRS.

We flew several times with KLM from BRS via AMS to north America in the 1990s and that worked well, with reasonable fares and good timings. Going east seems hopeless though.

 

[kraktoa]

Would you have expected for Bristol Airport to make some comment about Qatar airways going to Cardiff? Along the lines of .....we are disappointed blah blah but will redouble our efforts blah blah

Or

Just pretend it never happened.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Would you have expected for Bristol Airport to make some comment about Qatar airways going to Cardiff? Along the lines of .....we are disappointed blah blah but will redouble our efforts blah blah

Or

Just pretend it never happened.

Funnily enough, I wondered about that. One snag is that the local news media (telly, radio and newspaper) are not very proactive when it comes to the airport. They rely almost exclusively on airport press releases that are usually reproduced with little if any editing.

I looked at the Welsh media's reaction to Qatar and CWL. it was given considerable prominence. Had Qatar chosen BRS instead the news media here would have waited for an airport press release, reproduced it and probably not done much more.

So unless the local Bristol news media do take a proactive stance for once (which as I've said they usually don't), and familiarise themselves with the CWL/BRS/Qatar situation and then ask BRS for a reaction, we might have no public comment from the BRS CEO.

Despite what I've written, I have a feeling that the local news media might wake up and publish something.

But you are correct. Any airport reply is likely to contain a degree of disappointment with an assertion that efforts are being redoubled to attract a carrier to BRS to compete with Qatar, but we and the airport will know that the likelihood of that being successful is probably zero or very close to it.

 

[tpm]

Don't know why they would make a statement about that, especially since they'll probably not be able to answer any follow-up questions about it due to confidentiality obligations and such. If it was, say, a planning application being turned down, that'd be different and you could say that would add something to the public discourse.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I think the difference between the Welsh news media and that in the West Country is that the former has a country to cover whilst the latter's territory is a region of England that is not a major one. The main Welsh newspaper group has a business editor and other journalists who regularly contribute self-generated articles about CWL, that often involve their own opinions and the views of such people as local travel and business academics as well as other 'experts' on aviation and business. BRS often features as a comparator to CWL.

Had Qatar chosen BRS there can be no doubt that the Welsh news media would have been seeking the views of senior CWL people, other experts as well as giving their own opinions on how they saw it affecting CWL and the Welsh economy generally.

The only self-generated stuff on BRS that the Bristol Post goes in for is the publication of screen shots of the airport website arrivals board when diversions are being made to other airports.

 

[Marko1]

Perhaps they don't want to burn any bridges that have been forged over the past while. Perhaps Qatar will do a Helvetic and hop over to brs later ..

 

[Jerry]

I looked at the Welsh media's reaction to Qatar and CWL. it was given considerable prominence.

It was Radio Wales news headline for most of the afternoon at least and was reported all over social media with a lot of positivity.

 

[Jerry]

Perhaps they don't want to burn any bridges that have been forged over the past while. Perhaps Qatar will do a Helvetic and hop over to brs later ..

I honestly don't think that'll happen. I think this is more than just an airline route. I think this is the start of a trade and financial connection between Wales and Qatar with potential investment from Qatar in projects like the South Wales Metro, Swansea tidal lagoon and maybe even the airport itself.

 

[Kernow Bravo]

The QR CWL announcement has caused this long-time lurker to sign up! Having moved to the area from living within 30 minutes of LHR, BRS is quite a different experience, positive in some respects, not so much in others!

My own view on the CWL situation is that QR will at least start with a single-aisle aircraft. For a 7 hour flight that would not be my preference, even if BRS had won the route! I think that rather than chase a direct MEB3 competitor, BRS should redouble efforts to expand by attracting more connecting traffic (Brexit notwithstanding).

Although KL, LH (via BM codeshare), EI, SN and Wow all currently play in this space, with varying degrees of success, to my mind, bmi regional (or possibly FlyBE) is key to this debate. Almost all long haul far east carriers (CX, SQ, MH, TG etc.) are struggling against the MEB3. They have flights to many European gateways which a regional airline could feed from BRS. Airports like MXP, CPH or ZRH (with Brexit in mind) are prime candidates for feeder traffic which could go a long way to mitigate the QR CWL effect if BRS was to chase that traffic.

Unsurprisingly, the BM CCO has recently argued that building extra runways in the south east is the wrong approach for the UK as a whole, and instead the focus should be on attracting demand away from LHR to regional airports, which are not capacity constrained. This is what BRS wants too, so to me the strategy is obvious - more flexibility of connection points priced competitively to make passengers think twice about making the trip along the M4!

 

[kraktoa]

For what its worth, my sources in Cardiff state that the Qatar flights are going to be mainly business class passengers. How can they guarantee this at this stage?

 

[Sierra3]

I first read on this thread about this at Heathrow on Weds waiting for my flight to Bahrain! Then I read about in (what used to be called a broadsheet) newspaper. That article hinted that investment opportunities in South Wales might be linked, possibly a Qatar Sovereign Wealth Fund investment in the airport itself! but no more than 'hints', no confirmed facts.
QR was the best option (out of the MEB3) for BRS as its One World, with a potential 'cross over' with BA, mostly.
Maybe CWL is reasonably convenient from the BRS area, but from places like Dorset & South Somerset its takes as long to get there as it does to LHR. Coming from further west I really wonder if travelers will do a U turn across the Severn Bridge, they'll probably just carry onto LHR. If they're using train or bus then the options are pretty limited to CWL. Can see it picking up pax from BRS and South Glos but not a lot more areas to the south of the Bristol Channel.

Etihad could conceivably try it at some stage in the future, doubt Emirates could get a 777 into BRS.

Personally having waited decades for a BRS / ME flight, then when it turns up it goes to CWL - most depressing. So its LHR for me in the foreseeable future.

 

[forest1979]

The QR CWL announcement has caused this long-time lurker to sign up! Having moved to the area from living within 30 minutes of LHR, BRS is quite a different experience, positive in some respects, not so much in others!

My own view on the CWL situation is that QR will at least start with a single-aisle aircraft. For a 7 hour flight that would not be my preference, even if BRS had won the route! I think that rather than chase a direct MEB3 competitor, BRS should redouble efforts to expand by attracting more connecting traffic (Brexit notwithstanding).

Although KL, LH (via BM codeshare), EI, SN and Wow all currently play in this space, with varying degrees of success, to my mind, bmi regional (or possibly FlyBE) is key to this debate. Almost all long haul far east carriers (CX, SQ, MH, TG etc.) are struggling against the MEB3. They have flights to many European gateways which a regional airline could feed from BRS. Airports like MXP, CPH or ZRH (with Brexit in mind) are prime candidates for feeder traffic which could go a long way to mitigate the QR CWL effect if BRS was to chase that traffic.

Unsurprisingly, the BM CCO has recently argued that building extra runways in the south east is the wrong approach for the UK as a whole, and instead the focus should be on attracting demand away from LHR to regional airports, which are not capacity constrained. This is what BRS wants too, so to me the strategy is obvious - more flexibility of connection points priced competitively to make passengers think twice about making the trip along the M4!

Welcome...
Most of what you say in terms of strategy fits in with what the CEO has stated as per my post in the general thread. I think they may give up the ME thing for now, focus on connections via hubs with state carriers or code share alliances and try and secure the NYC link again...

 

[Marko1]

The loads on Flybe's scheduled services are not to shout from the rooftops so how can Qatar guarantee high loads for its new service ?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The QR CWL announcement has caused this long-time lurker to sign up! Having moved to the area from living within 30 minutes of LHR, BRS is quite a different experience, positive in some respects, not so much in others!

My own view on the CWL situation is that QR will at least start with a single-aisle aircraft. For a 7 hour flight that would not be my preference, even if BRS had won the route! I think that rather than chase a direct MEB3 competitor, BRS should redouble efforts to expand by attracting more connecting traffic (Brexit notwithstanding).

Although KL, LH (via BM codeshare), EI, SN and Wow all currently play in this space, with varying degrees of success, to my mind, bmi regional (or possibly FlyBE) is key to this debate. Almost all long haul far east carriers (CX, SQ, MH, TG etc.) are struggling against the MEB3. They have flights to many European gateways which a regional airline could feed from BRS. Airports like MXP, CPH or ZRH (with Brexit in mind) are prime candidates for feeder traffic which could go a long way to mitigate the QR CWL effect if BRS was to chase that traffic.

Unsurprisingly, the BM CCO has recently argued that building extra runways in the south east is the wrong approach for the UK as a whole, and instead the focus should be on attracting demand away from LHR to regional airports, which are not capacity constrained. This is what BRS wants too, so to me the strategy is obvious - more flexibility of connection points priced competitively to make passengers think twice about making the trip along the M4!

Welcome KernowBravo. Great to have you posting and we hope for many more from you.

You make the valid point that none of the current BRS routes into the European hubs codeshares with any of the MEB3. I think I'm right I'm saying this; will be very happy to be put right if wrong.

Chasing more connecting traffic in the absence of a direct ME link is probably now the only realistic way to proceed for the foreseeable future.

bmi regional has code share with LH (as you point out) on the FRA and MUC routes. I don't know what percentage of this traffic does use these German airports as hubs to fly on long haul. Perhaps quite a high percentage because bmir's point to point fares are usually very high. bmir already operates to MXP of course but it's almost an inhouse operation for Leonardo (formerly Augusta Westland) at Yeovil, and there is no code share with anyone.

I'm not sure about Flybe joining in. They now have a large presence at CWL and their relationship with BRS has been rocky for a decade or more. On the other hand business is business and if it was made worth their while who knows?

I first read on this thread about this at Heathrow on Weds waiting for my flight to Bahrain! Then I read about in (what used to be called a broadsheet) newspaper. That article hinted that investment opportunities in South Wales might be linked, possibly a Qatar Sovereign Wealth Fund investment in the airport itself! but no more than 'hints', no confirmed facts.
QR was the best option (out of the MEB3) for BRS as its One World, with a potential 'cross over' with BA, mostly.
Maybe CWL is reasonably convenient from the BRS area, but from places like Dorset & South Somerset its takes as long to get there as it does to LHR. Coming from further west I really wonder if travelers will do a U turn across the Severn Bridge, they'll probably just carry onto LHR. If they're using train or bus then the options are pretty limited to CWL. Can see it picking up pax from BRS and South Glos but not a lot more areas to the south of the Bristol Channel.

Etihad could conceivably try it at some stage in the future, doubt Emirates could get a 777 into BRS.

Personally having waited decades for a BRS / ME flight, then when it turns up it goes to CWL - most depressing. So its LHR for me in the foreseeable future.

I agree that many travellers in the more southerly part of the BRS catchment won't consider CWL an option but might have done so at BRS. Those well to the north of Bristol in the Gloucestershire area often look to BHX as their local airport so again perhaps not many will switch to Qatar at CWL unless the offers are exceptionally good. They might not have come to Qatar at BRS either.

For what its worth, my sources in Cardiff state that the Qatar flights are going to be mainly business class passengers. How can they guarantee this at this stage?

Is that people flying business class or business people some of whom will fly economy? The Qatar B787s only have 22 business class seats and the narrow-bodied Airbuses even fewer than that.

 

[Kernow Bravo]

Apologies Forest, I read your post in the General Forum after I had finished typing!

Thank you TLY for your welcome. It seems there is a common view on most likely best strategy for BRS.

My point about connections with far east carriers in particular was to avoid the middle east altogether. There is unlikely to be much O&D traffic CWL - DOH, other than perhaps in 2022(!), so most passengers will be making onward connections at DOH (e.g. VFR traffic such as TLY's annual trip).

I see the opportunity at BRS more for the VFR and eastbound business markets, so rather than (e.g.) CWL-DOH-MEL, there could be (e.g.) BRS-MXP/ZRH-SIN/HKG/BKK-MEL with good stopover options. OK it's an extra stop, but it's a long journey anyway.

I used MXP as a specific example because:

a) it is one of the few large European airports which does not have a 'home' long haul carrrier (notionally this would be AZ, although they are seemingly on the brink of administration again and they only have 3 long haul destinations from MXP anyway)
b) several of the far east carriers offer services at MXP (CX, SQ, TG)
c) BM already has a presence at MXP, albeit as TLY points out primarily for Leonardo (I have used this service on a couple of occasions - at sale fares of course - despite having no connection with Leonardo), but there may be opportunities for additonal codeshares which could underpin a larger aircraft and more palatable fares.

Obviously the Brexit effect is still a major unknonwn and BM is not the only game in town, however their dedicated departure lounge at BRS adds to the experience.

Interesting that BRS sees LHR as the main opposition. With BA seemingly leading the race to the bottom in terms of product 'enhancements', this looks to be a great opportunity for BRS to encourage more passengers who are fed up with LHR/BA to try a better quality alternative, provided that the price point is competitive and layovers not too onerous.

The BRS SWOT analysis would make very interesting reading at the moment!