2019 Rugby Union World Cup

[TheLocalYokel]

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The ninth rugby union World Cup begins in Japan on Friday this week (20 September) when the hosts Japan play Russia. The competition will last until 2 November, the day of the final. The first rugby union World Cup was held in 1987 and every four years since.

New Zealand have won the Cup three times, Australia and South Africa both twice and England once. New Zealand appear to be pre-tournament favourites this time.

Twenty countries will contest the Finals and initially will be divided into four five-team groups with each country within a group playing all the others in the same group. The top two teams in each group will move to the quarter finals with the competition then becoming a knock-out event.

Because of the time difference the games will be played through the mornings UK time with some beginning as early as 5.45am. ITV holds the contract for showing the matches in the UK and every match will be shown live, although ten of them will be on ITV4.

Good luck to everyone for whichever country they support.

 

[Brummiegem]

I am really looking forward to the World Cup.
I would love to be out there in Japan, the experience of just being in Japan would be something.Seeing some rugby would be the icing on the cake, as getting hold of tickets has been difficult and expensive, according to reports i’ve heard.
The last World Cup produced one of the biggest shocks ever seen in World rugby Union. This was when Japan beat a very strong South Africa. I would love to see another shock, as long as England aren’t on the end of it.
I think England will go a long way this time round, although looking at New Zealand, I think they have to be favourites.
Let’s hope it is a fantastic spectacle.

 

[Jerry]

Can't believe it starts tomorrow! I'm glad that it's in Japan even though I can't go as it does help spread rugby! Hopefully in the future World rugby will take it too new countries again and not just keep it in the same old countries.
The Pools are
Pool A Ireland, Japan, Scotland, Russia and Samoa.
Pool B New Zealand, South Africa, Italy, Namibia and Canada.
Pool C England, France, Argentina, USA and Tonga.
Pool D Australia, Wales, Georgia, Fiji and Uruguay.
Top 2 from each pool go through to the Quarter finals and top 3 from each pool automatically qualify for the Rugby world cup in 2023.
Hopefully there will be a new winner of the Webb Ellis trophy this time! Preferably Wales but I'd settle for Ireland with gritted teeth!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Has England got the toughest group on paper? They have two other 'established' rugby countries with them - France and Argentina. I know that Italy is in the group that contains New Zealand and South Africa but they probably haven't got the rugby history of Argentina.

Like the football world cup, things don't usually become interesting until the knock-out stages begin. It would be a surprise if Ireland, New Zealand, South Africa, England, France, Australia and Wales don't make it out of the groups. Perhaps the only question mark is in Pool A where Scotland might have a bit of a battle to finish above the hosts, Japan. Without wishing to be disrespectful to Scotland, it would be a great thing for the host country if their own team made it through to the knock-out stage, and for the competition.

 

[Jerry]

Has England got the toughest group on paper?

Yes I definitely think so. France and Argentina are tough opponents and are capable of beating England.
After that I'd say it was Wales group as Fiji are no mugs.
It will be interesting to see how Japan performs. I think they could be the surprise qualifiers from the pool stages.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Japan 19 Ireland 12

I watched the second half of Japan's victory over Ireland this morning. Great performance by the host nation to overcome one of the fancied countries. The backing from the home crowd was magnificent.

For me this has brought to life what has so far been a low-key competition with the major rugby-playing countries usually comfortably beating the 'lesser' countries (in terms of rugby pedigree) without, in most cases, over-extending themselves.

Japan's performance has thrown this particular group into the melting pot. With only two countries progressing from each group Scotland must now be looking on anxiously as at the moment Japan and Ireland appear favourites to reach the later stages.

England still have it all to do with games against France and Argentina in prospect.

Wales ought to be fine as the only serious opponent in their group is Australia and they play them tomorrow. The victor will no doubt finish the group stage at the top of Group D. Wales have already beaten Georgia, and Fiji and Uruguay are unlikely to 'do a Japan'.

I invariably find that with the rugby World Cup I don't really take a close interest until the knock-out stages when for the most part the competing teams are from the traditional rugby-playing countries.

With nothing against the other countries in their group, I'd love to see Japan progress from it. It would add spice to the competition and put the game of rugby even more into the Japanse nation's psyche. The locals seem to be supporting the World Cup extremely well, and not just in the games involving their own country.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

I agree, Japan played a great game and thoroughly deserved their win. It brought back memories of their phenomenal win over South Africa in the previous world cup.

Kevin

 

[Jerry]

It was a great win by Japan! It definitely shows how far they have come as a team and if they can get into the quarter finals that would be brilliant for rugby as a whole. The group is wide open now and if Scotland lose to Samoa they could be in danger of not just failing to get into the quarter finals but not automatically qualifying for the next world cup and then having to go through the a qualifying tournament/repechage which would have a big impact on their finances.
Although Japans victory is the most high profile shock of this tournament it's not the biggest. Uruguay have that honour when they beat Fiji 30-27 a few days ago. I believe that is Los Teros only second win in the world cup since it started. For a mostly amateur team (i believe they only have 2 professional players) beating Fiji was an incredible feat.
Rugby likes to rank itself in tiers but i do think that the gap between what are considered the top tier 1 teams is getting smaller and with a few teams has been closed despite teams like Georgia struggling to get regular games against top oppostion.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I'm very surprised that one of the major sporting events in the world has no contingency plans for matches that for whatever reason can't go ahead.

England v France has been called off because of anticipated weather difficulties with a draw being awarded to both. As it happens they've both qualified for the knock-out stage but a match between the two would still decide the shape of part of the quarter-final round. It might have been Wales v England and Australia v France instead of Wales v France and Australia v England which will now be the quarter-final matches.

Scotland might actually be a victim if their game against Japan is called off. They need to beat the host nation to progress.

It really is a poor show in my view. Why couldn't spare days be allocated even if the matches took place at the same time as already scheduled games between other countries? Contemporaneous matches happen in the football world cup finals with the last matches in each mini league so that teams can't play tactically wth the next stage of the competition in mind.

 

[Jerry]

I'm very surprised that one of the major sporting events in the world has no contingency plans for matches that for whatever reason can't go ahead.

There was a suggestion they were looking into moving matches but the logistics i believe would've been to much. One game was rumoured that it might be moved 600 miles and they would've had to play behind closed doors because the risk of fans travelling in what is the equivalent of a category 5 hurricane.
In the end the organisers have just chosen the safest option.

 

[Brummiegem]

I agree with The Local Yokel.The International Rugby Union authorities and the Japanese organisers knew that the weather could disrupt matches at this time of year.It is after all the hurricane/cyclone/stormy season in that part of the world.
The fact that no alternate plan is in place is very poor.As Yokel points out, the teams affected will qualify for the next round anyway.It is the order in which they finish the groups that is important.
However if Scotland’s game is cancelled then that could mean they cannot qualify for the next round.It could lead to accusations of match rigging at worst, or poor sportsmanship at best.Afterall,Japan will qualify if the match does not go ahead.

This is not the first time that a sporting event has been awarded to a country where weather or climate conditions have or could effect the events, and possible individual performances.
The recent athletics event in Doha, Qatar was singled out as a poor choice. Did anyone see how empty the stadium was in the first few days. The organisers brought in migrant workers in to make the stadium look a bit fuller to start off with.
The same situation could happen at the World Cup in Qatar in a couple of years. The organisers have moved the competition to later in the year to try and nullify the effects of the heat. This is of course shouldn’t really be allowed as here in Europe, most of the leagues have had to change the formats of their seasons in order to get everything in place for the competition.
Both Football and Rugby Union are winter sports traditionally, players and supporters are well used to wet, windy and cold conditions.It has often led to Wales being criticised for having a roof put on the millennium stadium, but just this once I think I agree in principle with the decision. It does allow matches to be played when weather conditions are considered to be very poor.

I think when a decision about where to hold a certain event is made, all aspects of the bid including local and seasonal weather conditions should be taken into account.I know this may mean that some countries could lose out, but the safety of all individuals, whether participants, fans, and even the local population has to be considered. It should not be all about money.

 

[Jerry]

I think when a decision about where to hold a certain event is made, all aspects of the bid including local and seasonal weather conditions should be taken into account.I know this may mean that some countries could lose out, but the safety of all individuals, whether participants, fans, and even the local population has to be considered. It should not be all about money.

Problem with that is for a sport like rugby you'd never move from a few certain countries. Rugby needs to take it's big competition to new frontiers and there will be challenges that it will learn from. Despite the weather interfering the RWC in Japan has been a massive success. The next one in 2023 will be in France which will have no doubt different challenges but it's probable that the 2027 RWC may well be in a country that may well have extreme weather conditions. Australia, Argentina, Russia and possibly the USA so i'm sure World rugby will learn from this.

 

[Brummiegem]

Problem with that is for a sport like rugby you'd never move from a few certain countries. Rugby needs to take it's big competition to new frontiers and there will be challenges that it will learn from. Despite the weather interfering the RWC in Japan has been a massive success. The next one in 2023 will be in France which will have no doubt different challenges but it's probable that the 2027 RWC may well be in a country that may well have extreme weather conditions. Australia, Argentina, Russia and possibly the USA so i'm sure World rugby will learn from this.

While I agree with the majority of your point, let us not forget that 3 people have already died in the previous weather event in Japan just a few days ago.
A friend and colleague of mine at BHX is in Japan to watch Scotland. I for one will be worried for their safety until they return or at least until the storm has subsided.
The safety of everyone is the responsibilty of the organising body and the host country.If anything happens to any of the teams or fans in particular then many more questions will be raised rather than answered.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Unfortunately money talks - look at the Qatar FIFA World Cup - and Jerry is right about trying to spread the rugby word in countries that are not traditional rugby-playing countries, but I still don't see why games can't be postponed rather than cancelled. Why did not the organisers have contingency plans in place for each match in case weather or something else intervened to prevent it? If a re-arranged match has to be played behind closed door because of the logistics of getting fans to it- although I can't see why that should be the case - then so be it. In my opinion that is far better than cancelling the game altogether and awarding both sides a draw.

It was in relatively modern times that the FA Cup Final still went to a replay after a draw a few days after the final - the last time was in 1983 when Manchester United beat Brighton in a replay at Wembley. Even in 1983 the means of mass travel was not as widespread as it is today but they managed to get 100,000 fans back to a hastily-arranged replay (that had obviously been pencilled in just in case) just a few days later.

What if the Rugby World Cup final is affected by bad weather or something else, or the semi-finals? Will they toss a coin or draw lots to decide the winner, or arrange a rugby version of a penalty shoot-out indoors? If they can re-arrange those matches then they could have re-arranged the group games.

If one of the countries whose game was cancelled goes on to win the Cup there will always be the thought - would they if they had played all their group games and had a different route towards the final that they might not then have reached? To me the 2019 competition has been irrevocably cheapened.

 

[Jerry]

Unfortunately money talks - look at the Qatar FIFA World Cup - and Jerry is right about trying to spread the rugby word in countries that are not traditional rugby-playing countries, but I still don't see why games can't be postponed rather than cancelled. Why did not the organisers have contingency plans in place for each match in case weather or something else intervened to prevent it? If a re-arranged match has to be played behind closed door because of the logistics of getting fans to it- although I can't see why that should be the case - then so be it. In my opinion that is far better than cancelling the game altogether and awarding both sides a draw.

With the group games it could be down to the overall schedule. All teams have 4 group matches with nearly all having 4 day turnarounds at one point which for rugby is a short period, so a game postponed could lead into 3 day turnaround which isn't possible so they get cancelled and a draw registered giving both teams 2 points. With the knock out stages there is a longer turnaround 6 to 7 days and they will be rescheduled.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

With the group games it could be down to the overall schedule. All teams have 4 group matches with nearly all having 4 day turnarounds at one point which for rugby is a short period, so a game postponed could lead into 3 day turnaround which isn't possible so they get cancelled and a draw registered giving both teams 2 points. With the knock out stages there is a longer turnaround 6 to 7 days and they will be rescheduled.

Am I not right in saying that some countries had more than four days between matches? England had eight days between their USA and Argentina matches and a week between Argentina and France.

If the organisers had arranged the matches more evenly spaced they could still have incorporated sufficient time between matches in the event of re-arranged games. I suspect they didn't because of tv pressure where the major games were played at times and on days that would grab the biggest tv audience in the major rugby-playing countries.

England played Tonga on a Sunday, Argentina on a Saturday and would have played France on a Saturday. Only the least attractive England match (USA) was played in mid-week.

.

 

[Jerry]

Am I not right in saying that some countries had more than four days between matches? England had eight days between their USA and Argentina matches and a week between Argentina and France.

Yes but every country would've had a 4 day turnaround i believe. The problem with increasing the space between the games is that it would extend the length of the tournament probably and the time players will have to return to their clubs and the clubs already don't like international rugby as it is.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Yes but every country would've had a 4 day turnaround i believe. The problem with increasing the space between the games is that it would extend the length of the tournament probably and the time players will have to return to their clubs and the clubs already don't like international rugby as it is.

But England already had eight clear days between the USA and Argentina and six between Argentina and France, but only three clear days between Tonga and USA (22 Sept v Tonga and 26 Sept v USA). If they had all become become four clear days (to take into account possible postponed games) and every other group match had the same would that have extended the group stage of the tournament?

 

[Jerry]

If they had all become become four clear days (to take into account possible postponed games) and every other group match had the same would that have extended the group stage of the tournament?

There is no way that a rugby tournament could operate on 4 day turnarounds for every game, the players need rest hence why some teams had a long rest after or before the 4 day turn around period.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There is no way that a rugby tournament could operate on 4 day turnarounds for every game, the players need rest hence why some teams had a long rest after or before the 4 day turn around period.

Fair enough but in my book it's still a shame that they could not find a way of avoiding weather cancellations (or any other cancellations that might have intruded for that matter), and postponed matches instead. Perhaps have five groups of four instead of four groups of five with the group winners and the best three runners-up going through. Variations of that are used in cricket and in some football competitions.

I presume that the knock-out stages have built-in provision for dealing with weather or other interference, or have they?