Route Development & Rumours

[jfy1999]

I'm not going to jump the gun and immediately start speculating, given the rumours have been out there for so long without an announcement. BTW, I love the American accent in the video. "Rowtes"

 

[JENNYJET]

Jenny,

Manchester is happening too. Norwegian isn't shy of competition, far from it in fact.

CEO has direct quotes that BHX, MAN and EDI will see long haul.

Yes, yes but Manchester has the Northern UK Gateway status that Birmingham lacks and as you suggest if not by direct comment, Manchester has nothing to fear from the little neighbours.

What I am trying to impart amongst members of this forum and potentially the Airport company if they read this and other messages is that BHX can fill the regional gaps that Manchester and the London airports do not serve, e.g., BHX services Ashgabat, once served Tehran, Karachi and would welcome Philadelphia, Chicago as scheduled routes even if only seasonal.

I suggested Gatwick was near saturation because of the population they serve, Heathrow needs no comment and Luton is awash with low cost tourism routes excepting the Tel Aviv service operated by El Al. Why are EL AL using Luton? Why not Birmingham?

The West Midlands has a huge Commonwealth diaspora but every one I speak with say BHX is useless for them because no flights go to their home countries and dearly wish they could avoid the London Airports cartel. A friend hails from Vancouver but resents having to haul her brood to Heathrow and refuses to use United/AA connections via New York from BHX. She wants to see Air Transat or Air Canada to serve her home city from her local Airport and so would I.

Remember when a trip to Gibraltar meant a longer trip to London? Going from BHX was a juvenile fantasy until a brave airline thought out side of the box and chose Birmingham and now look at it

Another acquaintance wants to go to Sydney. She says Heathrow is a tortuous experience and whilst using Emirates sounds nice, it still means a significant transfer delay at DXB. She asks why she cannot get a Qantas flight that stops to refuel somewhere without the need to transfer to another airplane, go through immigration as a transfer passenger and board the same or a fresh aircraft but in a different seat? What would a Qantas A380 do for Birmingham? A stopover at DXB or perhaps a Singapore A380 and a stopover there before traversing onwards to Sydney!


I can understand this as I once travelled from Mombasa to Heathrow via Nairobi. It was on Kenya Airways A310, capable of non-stop to London but needed a 'political' stop at Nairobi. We were all removed from the aircraft and put through immigration, and given fresh tickets with new seat allocations, On the same aircraft to London.

I asked to retain my original seat which was rather special as
it was just behind the trailing edge of the wing. I like to watch the flaps and spoilers..HO HUM, just a nerd!! I was required to pay a special fee, in other words a bribe to the guard at the boarding gate.

Now it was my shiny One Pound coin against his AK47 but I got my seat, he got his bonus and I live to tell this tale. However, I feel the glare of the chief moderator for drifting off topic so I shall conclude by suggesting that we all draw up our wish lists of routes to be directly served from BHX regardless of Airlines, invite the Airport Company to respond by challenging the airlines, resident or potential to submit offers based upon an aggregate of suggestions.

It is us, the public that seek to use BHX for any and all destinations, and we need the suits in command to get on top of demand and create the business environment that already exists but remains untapped.

How many times have you all seen a tempting offer, checked departure point and been disappointed or hit by a surcharge or just gave up on the offer?

It is that sinking feeling that needs to be directed at the Airport Company and the travel companies, I have tried but it is always 'the computer says no' and it is Bognor again folks!!!

 

[Ray Finkle]

suggesting that we all draw up our wish lists of routes to be directly served from BHX regardless of Airlines, invite the Airport Company to respond by challenging the airlines, resident or potential to submit offers based upon an aggregate of suggestions.

Short Haul:

Porto (Ryanair, Monarch)
Helsinki (Finnair)
Vienna (Austrian, Eurowings, Jet2)
Stockholm (Norwegian, SAS)
Oslo (Norwegian)
Riga (Wizz Air, Ryanair)
Iasi (Blue Air)
Cluj (Wizz Air, Blue Air)
Lublin (Wizz Air)
Kosice (Wizz Air)
Pisa/Florence (Ryanair, Monarch, Flybe, Jet2)
Valencia (Ryanair, Monarch)
Seville (Ryanair, Vueling)

I'd like to see another based airline, Jet2 would be ideal, with Norwegian and/or Vueling gradually building towards bases. More capacity on the sun routes from the regulars. I think Rome could do with some extra frequencies plus a little more to Germany (Hamburg) and Italy.

Long Haul:

Orlando MCO (Thomas Cook, Norwegian)
Las Vegas (Thomas Cook, Norwegian)
Cuba (Thomson)
Vancouver (Westjet, Air Transat)
Boston (Norwegian)
Chicago/Philadelphia/Washington (American, United)
Mumbai (Norwegian, Air India)
Abu Dhabi (Etihad)
Tehran (Mahan Air)

Obviously Toronto is in need of extra capacity. Hopefully Beijing and/or Hangzhou can be grown in frequency.

Long term I think the USA west coast could be an option should Norwegian start long haul and see it do well. With the uncertainty over the south east eventually one or two of the Asian hubs could become a possibility, even with someone such as Scoot or Air Asia. Very long term then maybe Cape Town.

All dreamland at the moment.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

Another acquaintance wants to go to Sydney. She says Heathrow is a tortuous experience and whilst using Emirates sounds nice, it still means a significant transfer delay at DXB.

I would be very surprised if there is any significant delay, in transiting Dubai from Birmingham to Sydney. In fact, a recent TV series focusing on Dubai airport showed arriving flights from both Birmingham and Manchester being slightly delayed and passengers having to be expedited through Dubai to connect to the departing Sydney flight.
I did that very route, many years ago when it was a single daily A330 (a wonderful aeroplane, which I much prefer to the B777) departure.
Now, we have three daily departures all timed to fit into Emirates major hubs. Looking on the Emirates website, I find the following -

EK40 (A380) departure at 14.20 from BHX gives a 1 hour 40 minute stop at Dubai before departing to Sydney.

EK38 (B777) departure at 21.20 gives a 3 hour 0 minute stopover.

EK42 (B777) departure at 09.40 does admittedly, give a 6 hour 35 minute connection.

Even so, that gives 2 daily departures from BHX to Sydney that are far quicker and much more convenient than travelling to Heathrow.

A return from Sydney can be achieved with a 1 hour 50 minute stopover at Dubai, arriving at BHX at 12.20 on EK39 (A380).

On top of that, Emirates codeshare with Qantas, giving even more connections via Dubai.

A very quick search, also shows Qatar Airways giving a 1 hour 45 minute stopover at Doha, depending on date of travel (remembering that services to/from BHX alternate between morning/afternoon - except Saturdays which has both).

Regards

Kevin

 

[route66]

I would be very surprised if there is any significant delay, in transiting Dubai from Birmingham to Sydney. In fact, a recent TV series focusing on Dubai airport showed arriving flights from both Birmingham and Manchester being slightly delayed and passengers having to be expedited through Dubai to connect to the departing Sydney flight.
I did that very route, many years ago when it was a single daily A330 (a wonderful aeroplane, which I much prefer to the B777) departure.
Now, we have three daily departures all timed to fit into Emirates major hubs. Looking on the Emirates website, I find the following -

EK40 (A380) departure at 14.20 from BHX gives a 1 hour 40 minute stop at Dubai before departing to Sydney.

EK38 (B777) departure at 21.20 gives a 3 hour 0 minute stopover.

EK42 (B777) departure at 09.40 does admittedly, give a 6 hour 35 minute connection.

Even so, that gives 2 daily departures from BHX to Sydney that are far quicker and much more convenient than travelling to Heathrow.

A return from Sydney can be achieved with a 1 hour 50 minute stopover at Dubai, arriving at BHX at 12.20 on EK39 (A380).

On top of that, Emirates codeshare with Qantas, giving even more connections via Dubai.

A very quick search, also shows Qatar Airways giving a 1 hour 45 minute stopover at Doha, depending on date of travel (remembering that services to/from BHX alternate between morning/afternoon - except Saturdays which has both).

Regards

Kevin

I went to Tokyo with Qatar from BHX on its second flight and because we left 30 mins late because of "a security issue" we just had enough time to make our connecting flight. In fact, I wonder whether the time constraint was the reason our luggage didn't reach Tokyo!!

 

[User001]

Apparently, if the Manchester route does well, Oman air will look to further expand in the UK. It didn't give a timescale on such expansion though.

You would have to assume BHX would be in with a shout for a new flight.

 

[JENNYJET]

Thank you folks for indulgences of my pet beef as I do so seriously care about our fine airport.

One thing seriously bothers me and that is 'Why there is no scheduled route to Oslo when we have Norwegian based here?'

My wish list would see the following added to the offerings of our fine airport.


OSLO
ROME
MOSCOW
ST. PETERSBURG
TEHRAN
AMMAN
TEL AVIV
TUNIS
NAIROBI
CAPE TOWN
JOHANNESBURG
DURBAN
VANCOUVER
LOS ANGELES
DALLAS FORT WORTH
WASHINGTON D C
BOSTON
LAS VEGAS
NEW ORLEANS
ACAPULCO
MEXICO CITY
RIO DE JANEIRO
MUMBAI
COLOMBO
BANGKOK
KUALA LUMPUR
PERTH
SYDNEY
BRISBANE
TOKYO
SEOUL INCHEON

Those are the main business routes, the other tourist routes are mainly covered by charter services but could be improved.

MOMBASA? Safari and beach holidays
FORT LAUDERDALE..Space launches?
MIAMI? pretty obvious that one!!
HAVANA? Now seems a good time to cash in before
It changes beyond recognition.

KARACHI
JEDDAH
OMAN
ABU DHABI

Now then, I am not so bothered which airlines operate the routes but if they are brave enough to step outside the M25 and take a look at the potential of a niche airport able to handle any aircraft if the terminal can handle the throughput and it is terminal space that worries me at those times the big stuff lands in a short space of time.

Thank you again Gentlemen and others, I like to spark debate and do not claim to solve problems, just like to offer ideas and watch the debates unfold.

 

[User001]

There's a few routes in there I would find a hard ask

Mombasa: Current Govt advice advises against all but essential travel to that area, so, tourism is a no no.

Rio: currently a LOT of airlines cutting back flights to there. Even the Olympics and the World Cup doesn't seem to be doing enough to stimulate traffic.

Nairobi: Currently Kenyan going throug an identity crisis. It's returns it's B77W's, leasing out its B787's and the terminal situation is dire given the terminal fire of a few years ago and the new one still not ready.

Brisbane: Sydney would be a tough ask, Brisbane even more so.

All the others though, in time, will come. I'd say Tel Aviv, Abu Dhabi, Las Vegas and Tehran most likely. Rome is already served.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Interesting list.

As for Australia, a country in which I have a personal connection and visit every year, I note that you would like routes to Sydney, Brisbane and Perth but there is no mention of Melbourne. Melbourne is Australia's second largest city after Sydney, the nation's sporting and cultural 'capital' and can put up a good argument, that Sydneysiders would no doubt contest, that it is the main financial centre of the country.

Just curious as to your thinking on this particular point.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there the localyokel, I also have a personal connection with Australia, we have friends that emigrated to Perth, some nine years ago, so as well as direct flights to Perth, also as you say, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, these flights would enable Birmingham to make great steps and show that what heathrow can do, Birmingham can hopefully follow as well if that choice was available... Andyc

 

[Ray Finkle]

Oslo, Tel Aviv and Boston should hopefully be available in the next 12-18 months.

Mahan have shown an interest in a return on Tehran-Birmingham but it seems as if Gatwick will be first.

Talks are happening with regard to Canada, I hope it's not just bumping up Toronto and we will finally see the addition of Vancouver.

There are rumours of Etihad for 2017.

Surprisingly neither of us listed Atlanta. With Delta recently obtaining quotes from handlers etc there is a chance for 2017.

Las Vegas and Mumbai should, in my opinion, be very close to, or at, the top of the list.

 

[jfy1999]

Talks are happening with regard to Canada, I hope it's not just bumping up Toronto and we will finally see the addition of Vancouver.

There are rumours of Etihad for 2017.

I know BHX has a "Canada strategy", but what is the source of the Etihad rumours?

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray, well if we can get ethihad on board next year, as well as delta, that would be very interesting indeed, that would give competition for emirates and qatar, then delta giving competition to United and American... we'll just have wait for those announcement when they come... Andyc

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Hi there the localyokel, I also have a personal connection with Australia, we have friends that emigrated to Perth, some nine years ago, so as well as direct flights to Perth, also as you say, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane, Adelaide, these flights would enable Birmingham to make great steps and show that what heathrow can do, Birmingham can hopefully follow as well if that choice was available... Andyc

Australia is a great place to live in my opinion and the more ways of getting there the better. We use Emirates, alas only once from BHX, as the best deals from our travel agent usually means Gatwick, but we'd love to use BHX again as it's really just 'up the road' from us in the Bristol area.

 

[JENNYJET]

Mr. Yokels, I considered Melbourne but my conversations suggested that the political seat of Australia does not have the same draw factor as Sydney or Perth for diaspora reasons and Brisbane is within the tolerable tropical area with close reach of Sydney by air and/or road or rail.

However thank you kindly for the observation.

 

[JENNYJET]

Mr. Finkle sir, thank you but I ignored Atlanta because I could never see a reason to go there!

I included New Orleans for the 'south's as it could open up opportunities to travellers if they used their rental cars intelligently!!

If Delta deemed BHX worthy, I would hope it would be a direct or nonstop service to LAX or SFO since it would be a monopoly route if they get in quickly!

 

[User001]

Atlanta is Deltas biggest hub, and, the busiest airport in the world, it's also surprisingly a very Nice city, also has the Coca Cola museum if that tickles your fancy.

Any initial route from Delta would be to Atlanta of New York JFK.

The outside chances would then be Detroit (their 3rd biggest hub) or Mineapolis (4th biggest hub).

 

[Ray Finkle]

The handling quotes were for a 767 to Atlanta.

Getting quotes is one thing, whether they take it any further is another.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Mr. Yokels, I considered Melbourne but my conversations suggested that the political seat of Australia does not have the same draw factor as Sydney or Perth for diaspora reasons and Brisbane is within the tolerable tropical area with close reach of Sydney by air and/or road or rail.

However thank you kindly for the observation.

Many thanks for that. I think we might have to disagree though on Melbourne's merits vis-a-vis the other main cities.

Having visited most I'd pick Melbourne every time. It regularly features in polls and surveys, along with another of my favourite cities Vancouver, as one of the world's most liveable cities. It's also got more of a European style and grace than the others, apart perhaps from Adelaide (my second favourite Australian state capital city) which although it has a population of a million comes across almost as a large country town.

It will always be a subjective opinion of course and it goes without saying that I entirely respect yours.

 

[thunderchild]

New Orleans???? Seriously??? An airport with only three international destinations, no flights to Europe at all and no major based hub carrier! Interesting that ATL isn't on your wishlist - not only is it the home of Delta but it's also the busiest airport in the world handling over 100 million passengers!