Future Infrastructure Developments

[White Heather]

I'm not convinced it was to do entirely with stands. There were several arrivals and departures in quick succession. The first Ryanair went into the loop and held after landing long, but the one landing behind it went straight to stand. Then a KLM landed and went into the he loop as there were two Jet2s waiting to depart. After the first, another Jet2 landed and joined the KLM in the loop. After the 2nd landed, the Ryanair taxied to stand. There were then two push backs together, a Jet2 and Lauda, blocking access to the stands that would be free. As soon as they moved off the apron the holding KLM and Jet2 taxied to stand.

It seemed to me that it was a combination of factors including a lot of arrivals and departures plus push backs, with a resultant very busy and crowded apron. That said, Friday and Saturday afternoons have, on several occasions, led to a very busy apron indeed with some delays. The first apron extension needs bringing forward if these busy peak periods are not going to cause delays.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

I'm not convinced it was to do entirely with stands. There were several arrivals and departures in quick succession. The first Ryanair went into the loop and held after landing long, but the one landing behind it went straight to stand. Then a KLM landed and went into the he loop as there were two Jet2s waiting to depart. After the first, another Jet2 landed and joined the KLM in the loop. After the 2nd landed, the Ryanair taxied to stand. There were then two push backs together, a Jet2 and Lauda, blocking access to the stands that would be free. As soon as they moved off the apron the holding KLM and Jet2 taxied to stand.

It seemed to me that it was a combination of factors including a lot of arrivals and departures plus push backs, with a resultant very busy and crowded apron. That said, Friday and Saturday afternoons have, on several occasions, led to a very busy apron indeed with some delays. The first apron extension needs bringing forward if these busy peak periods are not going to cause delays.

You would think that the likelyhood of what we could perhaps agree to call 'congestion' is only likely to increase as the airport gets busier.

Hopefully the airport will move to build new stands asap as we really need them by next summer.

 

[oldendays]

A taxiway between A1 and Echo might not be a bad idea while the concrete mixers are turning. Needless to say, that is a more complex project.

 

[EX9]

The issues this afternoon mostly related to late incoming aircraft and ATC slots that had a continuous knock on effect as there are no spare stands during the peak period. Aircraft that missed their slot then got significantly worse slots exacerbating the problem.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

The issues this afternoon mostly related to late incoming aircraft and ATC slots that had a continuous knock on effect as there are no spare stands during the peak period. Aircraft that missed their slot then got significantly worse slots exacerbating the problem.

Yes, but thats a situation thats not going to get any better as the airport gets busier.

 

[radar]

A taxiway between A1 and Echo might not be a bad idea while the concrete mixers are turning. Needless to say, that is a more complex project.

If the council hadn’t cheaped out when they built the tunnel under the runway extension and made it too short, that might be an option. But they did, and it isn’t.

 

[EX9]

Yes, but thats a situation thats not going to get any better as the airport gets busier.

I was purely giving the reason for the aircraft being sat on Echo waiting for stands. The situation is the same every Saturday afternoon.

Fast forward around two hours and the airfield was almost empty.

 

[oldendays]

radar, I agree that the original extension was done 'to cost', to put it politely, but I wouldn't necessarily stick my neck out and say it's not possible to add a parallel taxiway where we'd like it. Costly and far from straightforward but not impossible. Who knows! Where's a civil engineer when you need one ?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

radar, I agree that the original extension was done 'to cost', to put it politely, but I wouldn't necessarily stick my neck out and say it's not possible to add a parallel taxiway where we'd like it. Costly and far from straightforward but not impossible. Who knows! Where's a civil engineer when you need one ?

Well the airports going to be shut on winter nights for the next few years for work on the runway so perhaps thats the opportunity?

 

[oldendays]

I was purely giving the reason for the aircraft being sat on Echo waiting for stands. The situation is the same every Saturday afternoon.

Fast forward around two hours and the airfield was almost empty.

This could be the case at any airport. I've been at Manchester in the morning when the likes of Virgin and United (going back a few years) have had to wait up to half an hour for their designated stand to become vacant. By midday, the place is much quieter and back to single runway ops! I guess the problem is that the availability of stands and apron services - fuel, baggage, catering and so on - is largely dictated by airline schedules. Once flights are running late or dare to show up twenty minutes early, then the sh*t hits the fan.

Well the airports going to be shut on winter nights for the next few years for work on the runway so perhaps thats the opportunity?

A fine idea!

 

[Aviador]

radar, I agree that the original extension was done 'to cost', to put it politely, but I wouldn't necessarily stick my neck out and say it's not possible to add a parallel taxiway where we'd like it. Costly and far from straightforward but not impossible. Who knows! Where's a civil engineer when you need one ?

100 % agree with you there. If Funchal can build an entire runway extension along with a taxiway on stilts I'm sure LBA could build a taxiway. It's all down to costs as you say but, with daytime hours becoming more and more precious the need for more taxiways will become increasingly evident if LBA is to facilitate more traffic during the available hours.

 

[Finger66]

Bit late to the party here but surely taking everything into consideration NOW is the time for new stands. We are getting a terminal extension because it is at or over capacity at peak times and it is clear apron space is similarly suffering. With contractors on site from hopefully next month and winter runway closures to come surely there is no more an ideal time. This should be all part of giving the airlines and their passengers the experience they deserve. Things should not be left at a “stand” still!

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Bit late to the party here but surely taking everything into consideration NOW is the time for new stands. We are getting a terminal extension because it is at or over capacity at peak times and it is clear apron space is similarly suffering. With contractors on site from hopefully next month and winter runway closures to come surely there is no more an ideal time. This should be all part of giving the airlines and their passengers the experience they deserve. Things should not be left at a “stand” still!

Absolutely. They need to be ahead of the game for once

 

[LBA4EVER]

Bit late to the party here but surely taking everything into consideration NOW is the time for new stands. We are getting a terminal extension because it is at or over capacity at peak times and it is clear apron space is similarly suffering. With contractors on site from hopefully next month and winter runway closures to come surely there is no more an ideal time. This should be all part of giving the airlines and their passengers the experience they deserve. Things should not be left at a “stand” still!

Your so correct, it makes total sense for new stands and apron space to be construed over the following months and winter period, thru looking at birds eye views of the airfield the most obvious solution is to take out those grassed areas between the current apron and the old smaller runway to literally double the width of the apron, this gives space for at least 5 extra facing outwards parking spaces.
Come on LBA management lets get things done properly for a change, think ahead into the future!

 

[JRP]

Would stands fit on the grasses area next to the taxiway? It looks tight
What about where stand 21 is and extend taking a bit of the car park towards the runway could prob fit 3 to 4 stands there

 

[EX9]

Would stands fit on the grasses area next to the taxiway? It looks tight
What about where stand 21 is and extend taking a bit of the car park towards the runway could prob fit 3 to 4 stands there

The embankment there is significantly deep, this would require a lot of extra work and cost to build it up in my opinion.

The broken up concrete from the current works on taxiway alpha are being taken to the vicinity of the fire ground to be crushed and used at a later stage. I believe it will be used to create some form of surface dressing that will extend towards the current long stay car park extension.

 

[White Heather]

Where the new stands go is already decided and was shown in the last LBA Masterplan. No doubt the new one, due next year, will do likewise.

The additional stands are Phase 3 of the development scheme, therefore several years away. I'm sure that LBA management have noted the problems with stand capacity at peak times and equally sure LBA ATC have taken steps to inform the management of the issues in case they hadn't.

Unfortunately, money doesn't grow on trees though and the airport might find committing to another major expenditure at the same time as the terminal development is a bridge too far.

Let's hope they find a way. Even just a couple of extra stands this winter , being constructed during the overnight closure alongside runway repairs, would make a difference in the interim until more come later this decade.

Perhaps Aviador could ask about this at the next Consultative Meeting which he has kindly agreed to attend in my absence?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Where the new stands go is already decided and was shown in the last LBA Masterplan. No doubt the new one, due next year, will do likewise.

The additional stands are Phase 3 of the development scheme, therefore several years away. I'm sure that LBA management have noted the problems with stand capacity at peak times and equally sure LBA ATC have taken steps to inform the management of the issues in case they hadn't.

Unfortunately, money doesn't grow on trees though and the airport might find committing to another major expenditure at the same time as the terminal development is a bridge too far.

Let's hope they find a way. Even just a couple of extra stands this winter , being constructed during the overnight closure alongside runway repairs, would make a difference in the interim until more come later this decade.

Perhaps Aviador could ask about this at the next Consultative Meeting which he has kindly agreed to attend in my absence?

Maybe the money could come from the 'ring fenced' £170m !

Seriously though why would they hold back on something as pressing as this? Its starting to look like the limiting factor isnt the terminal capacity- its the number of stands.

 

[White Heather]

Maybe the money could come from the 'ring fenced' £170m !

Seriously though why would they hold back on something as pressing as this? Its starting to look like the limiting factor isnt the terminal capacity- its the number of stands.

As I have previously said, there is no longer any ring fenced money. The airport are now having to finance the entire scheme themselves via a loan. I'm sure they would love to have all the work done at once but financing it may be impossible. We dont know the details if the loan they have secured, or when the funds are released. The airport has just returned to profit but insufficiently to fund major schemes without borrowing.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Yes, it was a tongue in cheek comment. I. Should have used an emoji!