Future Infrastructure Developments

[User0001]

TOMLEEDS

you completely misunderstand my point about the recession. Yes it is real and it has a massive affect as you have stated.

It is the underlying potential of LBIA which is the key issue. Everyone can agree that we dont have 1 seventh of the population of the north west living here in north and west yorkshire. and yet we have 1 seventh of the passengers. WHY? somebody explain to me. Leeds is the busiest rail station outside london and scotland.

manchester airport is a great airport because the people in charge saw POTENTIAL and instead of dithering around they went after it - thats why they have 2 runways - 1 of which is sat doing nothing (and we get a new bus stop!!!!). stop being apologists and start fighting to get this airport into the league it should be.

 

[User0001]

well white heather i do blame the council and i still do for all the allied shambles to do with roads etc.

Trouble is im not convinced (as much as you) with bridgepoint. they have a lost a lot of money in the recession. they have not gone through with their original plans. You need to be a little bit tougher in those meetings. Tell them to grow a pair if they want to make some proper money. Ask them when they plan to sell? Selling at how many pax?

Believe me this airport, which of course we all love, is now massively behind where it should be. More behind than you, tomleeds and many other posters even realise.

Hey i know i annoy you all but you know i have LBIA as the number 1 aim.

 

[User0001]

Leeds is the busiest rail station outside London and scotland

[offtopic]Thats really only half of the story though.
Leeds is the busiest due to only having one main station.
Manchester and Birmingham would be busier if its traffic wasn't spread over 2-3 stations.[/offtopic]

 

[User0001]

but you get the main point user. leeds has massive potential.

 

[User0001]

A couple of interesting posts from the business desk which seem to strike a fair balance.

A MOMENT of great uncertainty over the future of both the domestic and global economy would not seem the obvious moment to invest £11m in airport infrastructure.

And it was clear speaking to Leeds Bradford Airport chief executive John Parkin that the economic outlook had weighed heavily in the minds of airport management and shareholders Bridgepoint before they commited to spending £11m.

But set against that was the simple fact that the main airport building was increasingly struggling to cope at peak times. Or as Mr Parkin described it: "Sometimes it was difficult to tell whether people were queuing for WH Smith or a flight to Malaga."

Leeds Bradford Airport has persistently faced criticism over issues such as its location and transport links.

Click here to see how the terminal will look.

But the investment in the terminal building continues the approach the airport's current management has taken since it was bought from West Yorkshire's councils - to focus on what the airport can change rather than issues beyond its control.

The argument it has made is that thousands of people in Yorkshire are leaving the county to fly from other airports but if Leeds Bradford can offer frequent services to large numbers of destinations and make it as easy as possible to pass through that will convince potential passengers to give up the drive to Manchester or train to London.

So far that strategy has taken the shape of new routes and airlines but Mr Parkin knows the airport also needs to improve the "passenger experience" - in other words make it easier to buy a drink and find a seat - if it is to win new customers and convince more operators it is a serious player.

Leeds Bradford will always have its critics, but the latest investment promises to transform its image and in turn become a far more impressive gateway to the region which has to be good for the business community.

And any company choosing now to invest £11m in its Yorkshire operations should be applauded.

LEEDS BRADFORD Airport is setting its sights on serving 5m passengers a year as it invests £11m in a major overhaul of the terminal building.

Chief executive John Parkin revealed shareholders Bridgepoint have already identified further funds for future growth beyond the latest project which will see a significant increase in the size of the departure lounge and security zone as well as new bars and shops.

The last year has seen passenger numbers increase from 2.5m to 2.9m and the airport is looking to continue that rapid expansion.

Mr Parkin said: "Where I think this airport's natural passenger volume is, is probably somewhere in the five millions, another 2m than we have got now.

"The investments we have been making in the airport, some are obvious front of house or airside works, technical stuff, is necessary but not what people perceive as being the airport offer - that's the passenger terminal allied to the routes, services and airlines they want.

Click here to see images of how the terminal will look.

"If you have the capacity to grow that's a pre-requisite for an airline deciding to come here. No airline is going to come to an airport that is already full.

"This takes our investment to well north of £20m since Bridgepoint took over the ownership of the airport. There is other funds earmarked to facilitate further growth."

The decision to commit to the terminal expansion follows a summer which saw the airport management become concerned that the building was struggling to cope at peak times.

Recent months has seen Jet2.com, Ryanair and Easyjet all launching new routes and the airport has plans to expand that network further.

"We have got over 70 direct services. We want more, we want that to be north of 100. There are some big holes in our portfolio at the moment, probably the biggest is Germany.

"We were very pleased that Jet2 announced Berlin but we would like to see that operating year round and we want other major destinations in Germany which is Yorkshire's single largest overseas market."

Other targets include a twice daily service to Paris and Heathrow as well as services to Frankfurt, Munich and Copenhagen.

Mr Parkin acknowledged the demand from business users for a Heathrow service but said establishing the route faced significant obstacles in the shape of air passenger duty and limits on capacity at the London hub which made it less attractive to operators.

The airport's decision to invest in the terminal was welcomed by Neil McLean, chairman of the Leeds City Region Local Enterprise Partnership.

He said: "This is a great vote of confidence in the city region. Connectivity, particularly for business, is a vital issue and this is part of a broader picture.

"We saw the announcements last week on the electrification of the transpennine line, investment in new stations, we are hoping to have confirmation shortly of transport funding for some major scehmes in the city region. All of those together are about improving the infrastructure of the city region.

"We are starting to unlock the potential we think the city region has."

 

[airforced]

Before I get shot I better mention that I was asked today to find out if there would be any displays relating to the development in the terminal, and the answer is yes - they were going up today. However, they are on the landside, not airside, so upstairs in the cafe area I think. There will also be displays put up on the protection hoardings.

The works schedule was confirmed as:

Terminal development (excluding security screening area) completed May 2012
Walkway development completed June 2012
Security area development completed July 2012.

Thanks White Heather. Time to put the tin hat back on now methinks!!

PS I agree that a covered "bus shelter" type walkway is better than no walkway at all.

 

[White Heather]

well white heather i do blame the council and i still do for all the allied shambles to do with roads etc.

Trouble is im not convinced (as much as you) with bridgepoint. they have a lost a lot of money in the recession. they have not gone through with their original plans. You need to be a little bit tougher in those meetings. Tell them to grow a pair if they want to make some proper money. Ask them when they plan to sell? Selling at how many pax?

Believe me this airport, which of course we all love, is now massively behind where it should be. More behind than you, tomleeds and many other posters even realise.

Hey i know i annoy you all but you know i have LBIA as the number 1 aim.

I don't think you annoy everyone Pete - there are certainly members on here singing off your hymn sheet and if anything, my support for what is happening and annoyance at the constant complaining about Bridgepoint makes me feel like I am the one annoying most people, but like you, I care very much about LBA and I have proved it over the last 30 years by not only supporting the airport on forums, but working my little white socks off to actually support its development and actually help it achieve 24 hour operations, without which it would still be carrying 1.5m pax per year, not close to 3m.

I am hoping your comments about me toughing up at consultative meetings are intended in a humorous way given that you have never been to one of these meetings or seen what I do or say. Lets just say that when I need to say my bit I do, and I have had some major battles over the years with LACAN (who strangely don't come any more!) and local councillors. However, the meetings I attend are to discuss LBA matters, not start firing questions at airport directors as to the intentions of Bridgepoint Capital, who are their employers. The meetings are, in any case, chaired, and questions such as you suggest would be quickly put to one side.

Actually I admire the fact that you are so passionate, and supportive, and that you now recognise that the councils put LBA where it is now - years behind where it should be. My frustration is that you make statements which you cannot support based on information you don't have - unless you work for Bridgepoint!

There is no doubt that LBA is not meeting its potential and it does have a huge catchment area. It also has rubbish access routes (not the fault of Bridgepoint either), no rail station (not the fault of Bridgepoint), serious restrictions caused by the location of the airport and surrounding topography (the fault of Bradford Council in the 1930's actually for insisting it was located there rather than to the East of Leeds where a suitable site was originally identified at Whinmoor) and a runway that is still too short for comfort and pointing the wrong way - also not the fault of Bridgepoint.

LBA has been in operation for 80 years, only 4 of which has been under Bridgepoint's ownership, and yet despite this and the recession, you still feel that in that 4 years, this company should have thrown money at LBA right, left and centre. We would all love that, but that is where reality comes in. You as a LUFC fan, like me, should appreciate that. If Peter Ridsdale was running LBA, he might do that, and in 5 years time the airport would be dependent on being in the Champions League of airports just to survive.

And finally, thanks Airforced - you are welcome!!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

[offtopic]

I agree that a covered "bus shelter" type walkway is better than no walkway at all.

Last year Bristol Airport opened a new £8 million 450m walkway that connects the terminal building at first floor level to eight new pre-boarding zones on the western apron, enabling passengers to walk to and from aircraft instead of being driven by bus. It's really a long, fully enclosed passageway unlike the old draughty bus-shelter type of walkways that access some stands on their eastern apron. The local paper is still full of complaints from punters who whinge about the long walk so whatever LBA does will never please everyone.[/offtopic]

 

[User0001]

White Heather a lot of what i say is tongue in cheek. You have worked tirelessly for the benefit of yeadon with all the actual stuff youve done fighting lacan and the likes and if i knew you id buy you a pint. we are both passionate about the airport and i especially want it to at least get close to fulfilling its potential. That for me would be to keep track with likes of bristol ema ncl and liverpool at 5 million minimum. which after the historic shambles is best i can hope for in my lifetime.

for me if ridsdale were in charge of the airport we'd be going for flights to asia/the americas/oz which would be completely ridiculous. at present the airport is being kept in the 3rd division and we need promotion quick to at least the championship (5 million+). bridgepoint (blackwell) need to act.

i have done a bit to press certain people and you can bet (like i know you wont) i wont give up. even if it is occasionally kicking it off on here.

i have huge respect for all youve done for yeadon and i bet everyone on here agrees.

still think that bus shelter is gunna look awful though. MOT :good:

 

[wawkrk]

You were quite right Heather, I was so furious today about what happened, I came home and wrote several versions of my posting which were far worse than what I eventually posted.
You can blame Ryanair or Servisair about what happened but I know it was not an isolated incident.
The question is, are the management not responsible for the well being of their customers?
Could the airport not have bought some proper second hand airside buses that hold 100 pax or more.
Other airports use well organised buses even for the nearest stands in a very efficient way so you can hold pax who are waiting to board on the bus.
It is positive passenger experience that helps to promote growth. In my opinion, the airport was better 30 to 40 years ago than what it is now.

 

[oldendays]

I'm not sure who has overall responsibility for the pax buses these days. A few years ago, in the days of Airside Operations and LBIA-employed baggage handlers, this department provided the bus drivers for the distant stands and rotten weather incidents. These days, the drivers are Servisair Ramp Bods but I think the buses are still owned by LBIA. So goodness knows who controls them and who has a say in when and where they are deployed. If it's all down to Servisair then there is clearly potential for a conflict of interests as they are not the only handling company on the northside. It might also be worth pointing out that Jet2 (and Servisair with Ryanair aircraft to a lesser extent) are frequently required to tow their aircraft from the remotes to the walking stands, thereby obviating the need for buses. Don't know whose idea this was. Seems pointless having buses sometimes if they don't get used efficiently.

 

[White Heather]

You were quite right Heather, I was so furious today about what happened, I came home and wrote several versions of my posting which were far worse than what I eventually posted.
You can blame Ryanair or Servisair about what happened but I know it was not an isolated incident.
The question is, are the management not responsible for the well being of their customers?
Could the airport not have bought some proper second hand airside buses that hold 100 pax or more.
Other airports use well organised buses even for the nearest stands in a very efficient way so you can hold pax who are waiting to board on the bus.
It is positive passenger experience that helps to promote growth. In my opinion, the airport was better 30 to 40 years ago than what it is now.

wawkrk, strangely enough, about the time you were battling through 50mph winds to fight your way back to the terminal, we were having a discussion about customer service and had the chair not changed the subject just too soon, I was about to point out what was going on out on the apron at that very time. I know that John Parkin is passionate about people complaining to him, so he can investigate and do something about it - I would strongly urge you to do that, but if not, and if you want me to, I would be happy to send a copy of your e mail to the airport with a covering note, highlighting the fact that at that time, yours was about the only flight arrival, and that despite the 3 buses they have at LBA, none were made available. I would think that John would be mortified if he knew what goes on, but he's a busy guy, especially at the moment with the works going on - in fact he couldn't make yesterday's meeting due to another meeting in the terminal building,

Let me know if you want me to send anything to him just as an 'example' of the sort of thing that really upsets his passengers. There is much talk about 'best in class' standards at LBA - and it is going to take a lot to get to that stage - if ever. However, there is a lot they can do to improve the customer perception and the provision of transport in gale force winds is one that could so easily be remedied.

As for the shelter, I agree it does look like a bus shelter, although unlike many bus shelters, it may well go right to ground level so that it is not like a wind tunnel. I would suggest we wait and see what it is like. Another £3m has gone on the original scheme costs, so I would hope for something a little better than loads of bus shelters bolted together!

LUFC Pete - thanks for your last e mail. There is no doubt we both want the same thing - maybe I am a bit more patient and I suppose that having met and got to know the guys running the airport, I am able to see how much they really do care, but also how, like any business, they are having to ensure that what they spend at the moment is necessary and justifiable. Many on here have expressed the view that the terminal work would be cancelled (believe it when I see it was a widely used comment). There is no doubt that could have been the case, but given that LBA has continued to grow steadily, they have, at least, managed to get this phase underway, and they have given an assurance the money for the terminal expansion is ring-fenced for when its needed.

As for that pint - well that is an offer I will put into my memory bank. One day I might get my LUFC season ticket back and you can buy in the pavilion before the match!! :drinks:

 

[wawkrk]

Heather, I would be pleased if you complain on my behalf, your voice carries some weight and mine does not. You know I have complained in the past about similar situations. Like you I have supported LBA for many many years by using the airport and writing letters to the YP and gathering signatures of support etc. and I do not complain without reason.
The extended walkway will help of course but a lot of passengers are now carrying heavy hand luggage.These are people of all ages, some far older than me to have to walk from maybe stand 12 with a heavy bag then up the staircase because there is no escalator to the border control is now quite some distance. It is really not so nice and puts LBA close to the bottom to the league in European airports in my experience and I have flown from a huge number to form an opinion.
If I use Krakow airport as example as this was the flight I complained about, LBA could learn a lot from Krakow. LBA I am sorry to say from the point of view of boarding and disembarking is definitely primitive.The Poles arriving at LBA are shocked as they have a perception that the UK is modern and high tec. I heard many complaints.

wawkrk

 

[Seasider]

Well, I have had to ask my wife to make me a cup of tea due to time taken to read the last 2 days of posts. It is good that this emotive topic can be discussed in a sensible way and I have enjoyed the last 40 mins so would like to add my own "tuppeneth".
I first visited LBA in 1968 and my first flight was in August 1975 and I have flown nearly 50 times since so I have used the airport, as a passenger, as it has developed.
The present terminal is too cramped (at peak periods?) although I have never had a problem in finding a seat. Waiting to disembark aircraft takes too long (at peak periods?) although many times I have been on my way home within 20 minutes of landing. The queues at Border control are too long (at peak periods?) though I have never had to wait more than a few minutes.
I may have been lucky and flown at "quiet times" but I have flown at various times of the day and week. I think the real reason why I differ from a lot of other posters is my level of expectation. White Heather has got it right, in an ideal world we would like a brand new terminal now (even though planning approval would take 2 years) but we have to be positive and agree that the £11m spend is a step in the right direction.
I'm looking forward to my next flight in March when I can see how the improvements are proceeding.

 

[rmac]

Can I add to Seasider's comments as I fully agree with him. My last flight out of LBA was during the ash cloud problem and our initial booked flight was cancelled, but several days later we were re-booked, Ryanair to Palma, 7:15 am I think. Well the terminal was packed out however we had no problem in checking in although a massive queue as the aircraft was full. We had our breakfast and found two seats relatively easily despite the crowds going to places like Alicante,Rome etc and the atmosphere was friendly and pleasant. We left on time and the whole experience was first class.
Nevertheless I was very interested to read up about the terminal improvements, etc and would have loved to see a new building going up along side stands 9 - 14, and then using the old terminal for domestic traffic. But all this costs a lot of money and in these uncertain times economically who wants to commit many millions to a project that might take decades to have a financial return. I think of Doncaster Sheffield - was it £80 million to build ? When opened they said it would overtake LBA within a few years...... now look at it. Therefore I think Bridgepoint and LBA management have been very sensible in committing just (!) £11 million to the next phase which can be accomplished in the time frame allowed before the summer period. The walkway is a great idea and much needed. It would have been nice to see it built in way that future developments could have seen actual gates established with seating for 150+. This would also help the terminal to be less crowded as passengers eventually walk down to their gate.
However, again that is all money, so the walkway proposed will fulfill its primary role.
If the people of West Yorkshire really get behind their airport and use as much as possible, even if at times it might be slightly cheaper or easier to get to MAN, eventually the airport will grow even quicker with better facilities and services.
I look forward to using LBA again, and maybe seeing the new improvements.

 

[tleeds]

I do too rmac!

I am due to be flying out of LBA for a holiday in April and also at the beginning of July, so should see, to some extent, a before and after view of the airport terminal.

 

[Aviador]

I am currently without a propper internet connection so I have spent much of the last week just reading peoples posts. For me the delay was more annoying than anything else. It has taken our "best in class" airport years to pull their finger out to get to this stage. It has got to the point where passengers are calling the airport a "Micky Mouse" airport. Their words not mine.

Now the development has commenced the emphasis of knocking the airport for lack of action will switch to monitoring the quality of the build. It will be an uphill struggle to change the passenger perception of the airport so they need to get it right first time. A couple of week of humid weather in the summer without decent air con will drive passengers across the hill.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It has got to the point where passengers are calling the airport a "Micky Mouse" airport.

I've been reading all the posts on LBA's planned terminal improvements with great interest as I've a close knowledge from a passenger's perspective of the development of Bristol Airport, an airport that has much in common with LBA - and of course there is the Parkin and Hallwood connection between the two airports.

Bristol had its new terminal building constructed over ten years ago and it has since been extended. £50 million-plus of other improvements have also been made since the new terminal opened and the airport now has planning permission for a further £150 million major expansion.

Despite all the money that has been spent on it there are times when the departure areas are uncomfortably crowded, partly because space formerly occupied by public seating has been taken over by retail outlets, as is the case at many airports. I understand fully the economic necessity of airports having to do this as their relationship with airlines has changed and airports have to find money from other sources, but many passengers won't see it this way. They expect to pay bargain prices for fares - and frequently do - but think they should receive top of the range service in return.

Despite all its improvements in the past decade BRS is sometimes referred to as a 'Micky Mouse airport' in letters to the local press so LBA is not alone in this. I suspect that many smaller airports are referred to in this way from time to time by people who think their local airport should have the facilities and range of services of a major international airport.

 

[User0001]

A new terminal terminal and £200 million expansion plan. Huh! That's nothing were getting a new bus shelter.

Patience though, patience. After all were only little old Leeds.

 

[airforced]

It has got to the point where passengers are calling the airport a "Micky Mouse" airport.

[hi-lighty:2spioqdu]Despite all the money that has been spent on it there are times when the departure areas are uncomfortably crowded, partly because space formerly occupied by public seating has been taken over by retail outlets[/hi-lighty:2spioqdu], as is the case at many airports. I understand fully the economic necessity of airports having to do this as their relationship with airlines has changed and airports have to find money from other sources, but many passengers won't see it this way. They expect to pay bargain prices for fares - and frequently do - but think they should receive top of the range service in return.

I won't get too far on my hobby horse at this stage because I suppose we need to wait and see what is actually delivered in the fullness of time. But the point you make about overcrowding because of too much retail and not enough space and seating for passengers at Bristol is pertinent here too. I am praying - as I mentioned in an earlier post - that the 65% increase in space being touted by LBA ends up being passenger space and not just more bloody retail. Mini rant over.