Future Infrastructure Developments

[lbaspotter]

May explain why the main contractor up at LBA is currently advertising jobs for shuttering joiners.

 

[SNOWMAN]

hi all
is lba that short car park space,and there was i thinking some extra stands might come in useful
I still like sentinel off site car parking myself.time to put my tin helmet on :whiteflag:
regards
sm1

 

[scousefowler]

It does seem a bit odd. Especially when you consider that are we not supposed to be considering travelling by other means I.e. Bus & car sharing ect ect? I suppose their must be a good business reason for doing it in terms of return on investment. Hopefully the contractor will be around for a good while concreting lots of the apron and taxiways

 

[SNOWMAN]

hi scousefowler
live in hope die in despair.

 

[White Heather]

hi w/heather
re new stands
was there talk (some years ago) of moving the fuel farm & the fire station to the west side,if so was this for a taxi way or extra stands.
regards sm1

Yes I think the old Masterplan (pre Bridgepoint) had the fuel farm moving over towards the area near the latest a/c stands. It wasn't for a taxiway though - possibly to increase stands. I don't think that is likely to happen now, but who knows what Bridgepoint might decide to do to create more stands? Watch this space I suppose

 

[scousefowler]

Hopefully new aircraft coming into service will mitigate some of the issues with regard to runway length at LBA, and providing a service to the likes of Pakistan. I'm thinking primarily of the 787 and of course the A350 which looks awesome.

 

[User0001]

The A350 is not the saviour of short runways.

It is larger than the current B787-800 and I think B787-900 too. Its more akin to B777-300 size. Its not really a short take off aircraft, its more efficient at carrying larger loads over longer distances (for example, the prime reason Cathay Pacific are waiting to launch Berlin and Madrid with the A350).

That's certainly the situation as I know it

 

[User0001]

hi w/heather
re new stands
was there talk (some years ago) of moving the fuel farm & the fire station to the west side,if so was this for a taxi way or extra stands.
regards sm1

Yes I think the old Masterplan (pre Bridgepoint) had the fuel farm moving over towards the area near the latest a/c stands. It wasn't for a taxiway though - possibly to increase stands. I don't think that is likely to happen now, but who knows what Bridgepoint might decide to do to create more stands? Watch this space I suppose

It is not the old masterplan as Bridgepoint still link to it on their website despite none of it actually being done. It is completely misleading and wholly inaccurate to the good people of Yorkshire.

 

[User0001]

Apparently Bridgepoint have appointed a "senior man" for the building of aircraft parking stands etc.
He was in his twenties when the stands were needed but he sure will be senior by the time they get built!

 

[yorkshire]

your right there!

 

[White Heather]

LUFC Pete, the Masterplan is the old plan that was put together not by Bridgepoint but by the Airport Authority when owned by the Councils - as well you know. None of it was of Bridgepoints making, so you can't hold them responsible for the pie in the sky developments on it. They did not make any commitment to follow that Masterplan when they bought the airport.

Of course it is still on the airport website, as it is still the published Masterplan for LBA, but Bridgepoint are under no obligation to follow it. They have their own plans - its just that rather than publish a list of things that will never happen, they prefer to wait until they know they will happen before going out to the public. Frankly I wish they would hurry up and publish their own Masterplan, as until they do you will no doubt continue to bang on about how terrible they are! This is the organisation that brought us PIA, British Airways, Monarch and Ryanair bases, and SAS, plus a terminal refurbishment costing £12m and your 'bus shelter'. It is also the organisation that took LBA to record passenger numbers against a background of economic downturn. You state (on the General Thread) that LBA is now going into decline. On what basis do you make such a statement? One month with a reduction in passengers (due to the fact Easter is in April and not March) doesn't mean the airport is going backwards. Growth may level off this year, but what airport can grow year on year, ad infinitum? Eventually they all level off.

What I can tell you is that there is an absolute commitment by Bridgepoint to develop LBA to 5m passengers and beyond. They haven't finished yet. So why not just wait and see what they are planning without the constant negativity and 'anti Bridgepoint' comments.

 

[Aviador]

As previously pointed out by myself it is important to also remember that the government of that era wanted airports to make masterplans to give local communities an idea of what kind of developments airports "might" carry out in the future. The masterplans were not meant to be indicative of what will definitely take place. In my eyes, it would be wise for Bridgepoint to continue to include areas previously earmarked for potential future runway extensions and taxiways even if Bridgepoint never plan to fulfil them. At least that way the idea can taken-up by any future airport operator should they decide to carry out such expansion without surprising the local community.

Leeds Bradford Airport Public Safety Zone Runway 32

What is interesting is even if the runway was extended the three hunded metres mentioned in the old masterplan the red Public Safety Zone still falls outside of the build up area. Also worth noting, is much of the housing estate at the end of the runway already falls within the extended Public Safety Zone which wouldn't alter significantly with a future runway extension.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The three main airport in 'my' area (South West England and South Wales) all published master plans about ten years ago in response to the government white paper on aviation in 2003.

Much of all three were no more than wish lists and, BRS apart, very little of the projections have come to fruition and all three got the forecast passenger numbers horribly wrong. According to their master plans BRS should be handling over 8 mppa by 2015 - it's currently over 6.1; Cardiff over 4 mppa - currently 1.1; EXT up 1.9 mppa - currently under 750,000.

So master plans are often little more than window dressing, perhaps more for the airports' own self esteem rather than any serious attempt to accurately plan the future.

 

[User0001]

LUFC Pete, the Masterplan is the old plan that was put together not by Bridgepoint but by the Airport Authority when owned by the Councils - as well you know. None of it was of Bridgepoints making, so you can't hold them responsible for the pie in the sky developments on it. They did not make any commitment to follow that Masterplan when they bought the airport.

Of course it is still on the airport website, as it is still the published Masterplan for LBA, but Bridgepoint are under no obligation to follow it. They have their own plans - its just that rather than publish a list of things that will never happen, they prefer to wait until they know they will happen before going out to the public. Frankly I wish they would hurry up and publish their own Masterplan, as until they do you will no doubt continue to bang on about how terrible they are! This is the organisation that brought us PIA, British Airways, Monarch and Ryanair bases, and SAS, plus a terminal refurbishment costing £12m and your 'bus shelter'. It is also the organisation that took LBA to record passenger numbers against a background of economic downturn. You state (on the General Thread) that LBA is now going into decline. On what basis do you make such a statement? One month with a reduction in passengers (due to the fact Easter is in April and not March) doesn't mean the airport is going backwards. Growth may level off this year, but what airport can grow year on year, ad infinitum? Eventually they all level off.

What I can tell you is that there is an absolute commitment by Bridgepoint to develop LBA to 5m passengers and beyond. They haven't finished yet. So why not just wait and see what they are planning without the constant negativity and 'anti Bridgepoint' comments.

The masterplan shown on the website is completely inaccurate and downright misleading to the general public. I frequently see letters in the papers asking when the terminal will be expanded down the apron or when will the road link be built etc etc as shown on the masterplan. The general public will take this as real plan of intended actions and that has now been proved to be far from the truth, as you well know white heather. It is a publicity stunt in much the same way as there is a big fanfare when the glasgow route changed to faster dorniers but when the route is changed back to slower saabs there is no publicity. Why didn't Bridgepoint state next to that masterplan on their website that virtually none of it would actually happen? They could have easily added a detailed note to the masterplan to state that in actual fact they would only be able to remodel the internal terminal as well as adding a weather shelter. I personally don't see that as being anywhere near enough to what LBIA required from when the airport was bought.

Of course there has been growth at LBIA under Bridgepoint because the airport is literally millions upon millions of passengers behind where it should be right now. So your whole argument of "haven't Bridgepoint done well" is null and void.

I remember white heather when you used to tell us 5 years ago that it was red tape and the planning process that was slowing down the the terminal enlargement that Bridgepoint originally promised us. Last year you told us that Bridgepoint's masterplan would be ready before 2013 was out but surprise surprise we are all still waiting and that is just for the plans. Why should the Yorkshire public "just have to wait" year after year just like we did under the council? Watching our competitor airports get new routes day after day because not even vital aircraft parking spaces on airport property have been able to be built in how many years now?

West Yorkshire and surrounding catchment is huge and yet the airport languishes behind airports in smaller catchments all over the country. All LBIA needs is a company that is able and willing to do the required job which is exactly what was required when the airport was bought. After year after year your excuses on behalf of the airport, white heather, are beyond thin. It is not a masterplan that is needed it is infrastructure ACTION right now. The Yorkshire public are being let down and we do not have an airport worthy of the region as we were promised. Forward thinking manchester are laughing at the inactivity.

 

[dmrodgers]

Well said LUFC Pete for having the guts to come out on here and say what most people on this forum think about the airport and the way Bridgepoint have run since buying it from the councils.

I have two friends who hold quite senior positions at Manchester Airport and the opinion on the other side of the hill is that we are just that little tin pot airport on top of the hill trying to play at aeroplanes. They know we are small fry and can take whatever business they want from us, they even believe they could tempt Jet2 to move their main base over to them if they so wished. God help us if this ever happened, mind you it's already happening with Manchester now being Jet2 main operating base with more routes and more aircraft than us and little hope of expansion due to lack of stands.

As for the terminal well that is a joke, yes £12m on refurbishment, for what, still overcrowded at busy times, I know of many who will not fly from here just because of the terminal. We would have been better saving that money and some cheap plastic and paint and using it towards build a completely new terminal, one that the city and Yorkshire would be proud of. There was and still is land available in front of the terminal to build a new terminal on and then demolish the hotch pot buildings we have to create an enlarged apron with more parking stands. Will it happen, probably not with Bridgepoint running the show. All we need is a new terminal and 300m of extra concrete to have an airport Leeds, Bradford and Yorkshire can be proud of.

It a bit like GFH Capital at Elland Road, lots of promises, get everyone thinking what a wonderful buy out this is going to be, but then delivering nothing.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

I think we should look at the big picture here. This country is slowly emerging from the worst financial crisis it has every endured. All companies are stock piling cash as this is not the enviourment to invest. Investment has increased slightly in the last 3 months but not on a huge scale.
Lba owners are no different to any other business in this country, it is losing money and must be careful to ensure any capital investments earns an immediate return, most companies in the footsie top 100 have decided not sensible to invest in this country at the moment, why should LBA owners be different.
We cant have jam tomorrow, for 50 years I had to fly from another airport other then Leeds. In the last 10 years since Jet2, Ryanair etc I can now fly from my local airport to European destinations great.
If I want to venture further I get a shuttle flight to a long haul hub, again still using my local airport, those who want everything today, should be grateful for what they have. Every holiday travelling from Leeds to gatwick, Glasgow etc with three children was no fun, however, nothing local for those who wanted a seat only not package deal.
I am sure LBA owners are like us, survival is key. Product, people and profit and what every organisation requires, LBA has two, it needs the third, just throwing money into the pot will not solve. For me I would wait until May 2015 before considering capital outlay.

 

[Moo2009]

Some real interesting reads from both sides of the argument we must remember and also thank White Heather for the information she provides to the forum from the meetings, even though it may not we want to hear. I would be real interested to no and I guess only White Heather can answer this is do the directors at the airport actually read or no what people put on the forums regarding LBA, and if they don't it would be good to point this out to them
I am sure the directors feel the same way as most on the forum do , letdown but there is nothing they can do until the cash is there
This is only my opinion but Keith Wakefields comments about a new airport should be looked at seriously he can see we are getting left behind

 

[White Heather]

The directors are aware of the feeling on this forum because I tell them at every meeting Moo2009, and I put letters in to the meeting in advance so they have to answer them. The problem is that there are some on here who think they can run an airport better than those who do it. Those people also seem oblivious to the financial problems that have affected most industries, and aviation in particular. LBA bucked the trend for a couple of years. Now, the industry is slowly picking up and airports that took their turn at standing still are increasing their passenger throughput again. LBA has just had a record year and is yet to get into this summer, yet we have LUFC Pete stating that the airport is going backwards - with absolutely no evidence to support it.

I do agree that LBA did state that the Masterplan would be published by the end of 2013 and it wasn't. That is not my doing and I did log a complaint at the lack of information at the last meeting. I am not making excuses for Bridgepoint LUFC Pete, I am stating what is quite obvious to anyone with any understanding of the current situation. As I have told you many times before, I do find out information and plans about LBA that I am not at liberty to discuss on here. If I ever did, I would expect to not be on the Committee for very long. However, if you consider that the information I provide is simply a list of excuses to support Bridgepoint, then fine - you are entitled to your opinion. You may have noticed I said nothing after the last Consultative Meeting, because your response was very predictable. You did not disappoint me.

I have been considering for some time not reporting on the Committee and now is, I think, the time to do it. My colleague and friend on the Committee died suddenly recently, so now I have to do this alone. I take time off work to attend and frankly I am not prepared to do it and post the information here only to be effectively accused of being in bed with Bridgepoint. The constant negativity astounds me to be honest - we all want LBA to do well, but some need a healthy dose of reality.

 

[SNOWMAN]

hi white heather
please don't stop your feed back theirs a hell of a lot of us LBA supports really look forward to your info on the meetings,i know its a hell of a task but I for one really appreciate your effort on our behalf.
regards
sm1 :hatsoff:

 

[rmac]

Thanks for your excellent reply White Heather and I awaited your comments before I replied to the comments recently posted. I was disappointed at the comments and the tone of LUFC Pete post and totally disagreed with him. Whilst LBA is not my 'local airport', Edinburgh is, I have always retained a great interest in the development of LBA where as a teenager my love for the aviation industry really got going. I personally think Bridgepoint have done a good job, the LBA management also and I have enjoyed using the airport in recent months. It is becoming an airport to be proud of but there is some way to go yet. It will not be done in a few short years and even then it will not be another Manchester. Like it or not Manchester has the prime position in the north and a long history to go with it. I remember my Grandfather arriving from Dundee (we were in Guiseley) and my father driving him over to Manchester for his flight to New York in 1958.
Leeds in my opinion should be an excellent regional and international airport handling around 6 -7 million per year. If in maybe 5 or 6 years we look back and see what has been achieved by Bridgepoint then we can be either critical or give them the praise.
The 2 things that are disappointing is (1) Leeds City Council need to make access to the airport more of a priority. This issue seems to have dragged on for long enough and still no definite proposals. (2) Passenger numbers: The ordinary punter in this large catchment area has been fairly supportive of Jet2 and others for leisure and holidays. But where are the business users? For a city the size of Leeds the Heathrow flights should be well used and there should be no doubts that the service will be retained and grow. Are the Dusseldorf flights well used? What about Berlin, what about Munich? Will Copenhagen be a resounding success, will CDG be twice daily? Will Frankfurt ever happen? I know the management are pressing for these type of flights and it is not easy for airlines to just put on new services. Other cities, such as Edinburgh have daily flights to all of these places, and more (Madrid, Istanbul), sometimes 2 or even 3 per day! So Leeds should have all these services and be well used. It appears to be slow going with these business flights at the moment so how confident are airlines and the LBA management that they will be a success and not lose money. Too many passengers seem content with a trip across the Pennines and if that is the case so be it, then it will not happen at Leeds, that is how the business world operates. Anyway if the LBA experience continues to get better and access to the airport improves then more and more will use the airport. As for Bridgepoint... well would anyone else have done anything different? Doncaster is a reminder of money spent but poor returns (so far)
White Heather: please continue posting on here - your comments are often the most realistic and sensible points made and I for one welcome them each time and find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with you.