Rumours about new destinations or airlines?

[TheLocalYokel]

I concur with world_rep's view on this.

Furthermore, there are reports suggesting that United isn't keen on flying to secondary airports in Europe at all.

It has to be remembered that Continental expanded its UK operations to regional airports that it probably would not otherwise have used when it had no access to Heathrow. It was a policy that was thought innovative at the time and the B 757 was the ideal size for some of these airports.

Now it has its own network from LHR there is clearly less need to spread itself around the UK regions to the extent that it once did. That's not to say it will disappear from all UK regional airports because the likes of Manchester and probably Edinburgh have supported it well in the past though, as has been pointed out, even frequencies to these airports are being reduced.

Belfast seems to be suffering primarily because of the apd which puts it at a disadvantage to Dublin where goverment taxes are being slashed in the Republic though, in truth, in terms of raw passenger figures BFS's EWR route has never been that much busier than the already axed BRS route to EWR.

 

[tleeds]

But I think it boils down to the fact that with Continental and United's joint efforts, a lot of the UK operations from Heathrow will be shut down. They won’t want identical routes, departing at identical times, so operating an LBA route and more regional routes into Europe maybe the answer for them.

They're definitely going to get rid of a lot of aircraft both; to renew with newer ones and getting rid of aircraft they no-longer need, but surely the fact that LS operate shopping flights which are always full (yes they only operate 4 times at Christmas) and the fact that people are constantly shouting for one, shows that there is a market to keep it running year-round.

We have no London route as well, at the moment and not a lot of people want to go to Brussels or AMS for connections, so therefore a direct EWR or NY route maybe the answer for onward connections to the US?!

Finally, with Heathrow virtually packed as well, more and more people want direct flights. The government are saying that no more flights can make it into Heathrow so Regional Airports seems that it is the only way for American Airlines to know make money out of this country.

I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few years, Continental and United end up going back to places such as BRS, because no-one will want to go down to London or pay more to travel to Frankfurt or any other connection airport.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... throw.html

 

[User0001]

But, if Euro-regional ops are the answer, then why cut back on them, only to build them up again?

Like I say, BRS/LGW has gone, BFS looks on the verge, and as I have said, I would not be at all surprised if BHX goes. MAN/EDI down to 1 daily over winter. This means the loads/yields to the USA just arent there at the moment.
I know MAN gets a mention again, but, if CO cant keep 2 flights to MAN over the winter, then why would they run a 2nd flight to LBA, and dilute the loads at MAN, whilst Leeds would be starting at a disadvantage. (2x Half filled B757's versus 1 filled one at MAN).
It needs to be realised, that whilst everybody in the UK supports their local airports (and rightly so), when CO/UA are cutting back, would they suddenly go, ah, an airport 50 miles away, perfect!

Now, with longhaul, I know PIA does MAN/LBA, but, that is beacuse there are large local populations, who visit home regulalrly to support the route, but even LBA was down 35% in the march traffic statistics (Dont know any specifics to say what caused it, but, it goes to show what I mean).
Realsitically, how many people would use a LBA-NYC route on a multiple basis? Theres not the huge VFR traffic that LBA-ISB creates, and, dispite the M62, is the trek to MAN that bad that you would refuse to use a MAN-NYC route?

 

[User0001]

The view from the airport has always been that 2015 to 2020 was the period of time they thought was realistic for attracting routes such as those being targeted under their 'Project America' programme. They were equally clear that discussions with airlines needed to be taking place regularly from an early stage and a number already have happened, so its no surprise that the rumour mill picks up on these from time to time. However early exploratory discussions with an airline is a world away from them signing on the bottom line, but inevitably the phrase "in discussion" can be open to interpretation.
As always, and with all things related to airline planning, there are a myriad of factors including fuel cost, GDP, exchange rates, departure taxes, competition etc etc that can get ideas and plans thrown out completely or brought forward.
The principle of the business case though is not to get an airline to dilute its own business but rather the argument that operating from LBA and MAN will provide a competitve advantage compared to those airlines that choose to just offer MAN only. Any US service will be aimed at connections and therefore LBA-EWR-xxx competes with anyone using MAN-ATL-XXX, MAN-ORD-xxx, MAN-PHL-xxx as well as LHR-xxx and goodness knows what else. It won't happen soon but let's see what the world looks like in a few years

 

[tleeds]

yes, I very much agree there LS16 and also towards the 2015 and 2020 guidelines, the airport visually should and hopefully will look a lot different to what it does now with the expansion plans.

 

[jason1-11]

Leeds needs concentrate on realistic targets like an increased Thomson operation, a Flybe base for routes to Germany, Denmark and Paris etc and of course BMI to Frankfurt .

USA - sorry but no one will entertain it in the next 5 years because of the following:

1; Manchester already serves the region
2; Bristol, Newcastle and Stansted + many other European airports are further up the pecking order
3; The route would not be viable over a 12 month, 365 day period

 

[tleeds]

hmmm, maybe it was just the good-old rumour that was flared up again. :/

On another note, has anyone heard anything about the Spanish Operator that Tony Hallwood was looking for in that YouTube video, to start Spanish City routes?

 

[tleeds]

TOM have had 767's in the past and I think it was the 04/05 season that saw them basing their 762 before they were retired. They operate a series of flights every winter to the Caribbean as well as Florida, but we have none on a permanent basis. It would be great to see some Canadian routes again.
They normally get put on stand 8 - one of the two airbridges but can fit on the newer stands that have been built.
In all honesty I don't think that they would be able to secure such a route, the management team are too focused on LS, FR, EZY, TOM expansion along with the all important London route. I won't deny it would be quite fantastic to secure it - but there's a slim chance of it actually happening I think.

 

[User0001]

management team are too focused on LS, FR, EZY

Dont worry, MAN/BHX/LBA are all doing the same, having turned their backs on loco operators during their emergance! It seems the airports above just didnt expect Loco flights to take over the way they did, and now are playing catch up. LBA is doing well, having LS/FR based, as well as the easyjet ski flights. I still dont think an easyjet base will happen at LBA yet, as Carolyn McCall has said the main focus of growth is MAN/LGW (yes, other airports are gaining easyjet flights too, like LPL/GLA/EDI, but not on the growth scale of MAN/LGW).
Id expect another ski route to GNB from LBA, but, I dont see much more for the time being, as they dont seem to operate many routes in the UK from the foreign bases (eg, flights will be MAN-SXF-MAN, and not SXF-MAN-SXF).

As for the YYZ route, Id have thought a 1 weekly B767, with a low cost base and holiday style cabin wouldnt be so hard to fill, and if sunwing are in expansion mode, surely 1 airline for LBA to be talking to?

 

[tleeds]

Agreed! EZY will only do what they do at BHX with the GNB and GVA routes, but I think FR have still got some expanding to go, if they are fully serious at LBA.

I think that a Canadian route with Sunwing would be a perfect starting point for the airport and their new long-haul programme, but I just can't see it. They are already having difficulty focussing on the new expansion of the terminal - once the arrivals and departures halls are improved, I dont think the current airport structure would be able to cope, it's already having difficulty, with long queues during the summer months.
Maybe once the airport has got a new visual experience, then airlines would be more inclined to test it.

 

[User0001]

Yes, I agree. I think if you look at operators into LBA, you are not that different to BHX.

BHX has FR/WW based, LBA has FR/LS based. Both airports have PIA flights, have a mix of charter/business ops and so on.

I cant knock the enthusiasm on here, whilst I dont always agree with everything posted on here, I admire the support for your local airport. The thing that got me was, BHX has had an easyjet GVA/GNB flight for 4-5 years now, with no further expansion. Easyjet opens 1 route at LBA for the ski season, the same as BHX, and all of a sudden, everybody had easyjet 'basing 2 aircraft' and were expecting the likes of MAD/SXF and so on.

Easyjet is unlikely to base aircraft at LBA, but, I do expect RYR to go up to at least 4 based aircraft. Like you say, depends how serious RYR are about LBA? I know in the comitties LS16 attends RYR affirms its commitment to LBA, but, sweet talk is different to what airlines really think. This time last year, ALC was the best thing since sliced bread to RYR, and now, they have cut the base by 80%. Funny thing, time.

 

[tleeds]

I think the only thing left for LBA to do is; focus on getting TOM back and make sure that TCX are 'secure' at LBA. Then with the terminal being sorted out - we will really be like BHX!

I agree, some LBA enthusiasts are determined on EZY staying and expanding, as am I - but it takes time for the airlines to be sure it’s worth it. LS and FR are big competitors for EZY at LBA. RYR seem everywhere - With LS at EMA and EZY at LPL - Even LS and EZY together at Newcastle with FR sniffing up there.

I agree again. If LBA don’t see a Spanish airline such as Vueling or Iberia which have been called for, then I think FR will definitely go in for the Spanish city market. Also if WizzAir or an Eastern European airline doesn’t start soon, FR will see potential there as well. The problem is that with all the based aircraft - as far as I can work out - there is no room for FR to have based aircraft overnight. Jet2 have taken nearly all the stands and the first 5 are only suitable for smaller aircraft, so if RYR ask nicely they may construct a few more stands - which is in the plans in the expansion. Do you think they could get an advance

 

[User0001]

Vueling would be a fantastic airline for LBA. Being part owned by Iberia, and now BA, they could use any prospective service by Vueling to use as a LBA-MAD 'shuttle' to the south American flights.

Wizz air is a no no. Despite what several rumour-mongers seem to suggest, they are actually very happy at DSA. The ancillary revenue is good, turn arounds generally ok, landing fees are next to nothing, so, in other words, there isnt really anything else they need to entice them away. The polish routes from LBA will be RYR if they ever happen.

LS seem to be a bit dis-illusioned with LBA due to the management letting Ryanair in. Whilst LS has the holiday brand to support them, Ive been told by several people that 2012 will be the quietest year for LS growth at LBA, so, its obviously having an effect.

TOM is the same as wizz, they are very happy at DSA. They basically have free run of the airport, flights are near 90% full every flight, on board sales are constantly at 'bonus' as opposed to 'target' or 'below target'. Also, the base by TCX is off putting too.

 

[tleeds]

Vueling is something that LBA need to focus on. I still think that Wizzair would get something out of LBA - Bradford and Leeds have a high number of eastern europeans settling down now and I feel that they could work together with both airports. DSA is the main area for Wizzair, granted, but I do believe, agreed, that RYR could probably make it work better.

I agree on the LS point too. I think that we will only see one or two new routes each year, as well with the higher frequencies of flights as they utilise their aircraft a lot more.

I unsure as to whether TOM are fully towards DSA, in recent times TCX seem to be interested so coming back to LBA should be just the same as they were before. TOM have shown that the same routes work - I think it's just a matter of higher costs at LBA.

 

[pilot_737]

But I think it boils down to the fact that with Continental and United's joint efforts, a lot of the UK operations from Heathrow will be shut down. They won’t want identical routes, departing at identical times, so operating an LBA route and more regional routes into Europe maybe the answer for them.

Heathrow slots are some of the most sought after in the world, and very hard to get hold of (which is why they are very expensive). I doubt they will flog the majority of their slots just because they have merged. Both these airlines could sustain the same flights before they merged so why not after? Why allow another operator to earn money off a route they already own?
So I would doubt they would cut back at Heathrow and expand to Leeds Bradford!
I would also guess that these spare aircraft that used to op to BFS and BRS have probable already found a new use. There are hundreds of routes to be operated around America!

 

[tleeds]

very true pilot_ben, although if passengers see a better timing from one of the airlines, won't they be more inclined for them all to go for that one flight. I think that some of United/Continental's flights will see a reduced number of pax on them, purely because - everyone will go for that one or two flights that are the most ideal, if they cant get it with them then they will simply shop elsewhere.
Anyhow - they will be restructuring - we will just have to see what goes on in time...

 

[markietg]

Am I right in thinking we won't have a SSH flight next Winter? I would have hoped that Jet2 may have re-launched this flight with Thomson pulling theirs from LBA. Surely a joint TC-J2 flight on a 738 would work?
Anyway, I was laid in bed last night trying to think of 5 "new" bucket and spade routes that could work from LBA...and I was struggling to be honest! LBA needs to get SSH and MIR back but where else? We could do with a Morocco route, RAK or AGA. Would PUY or SPU work these days....im not sure? GIB would be an intresting one, as would NAP. Greek islands, we now have flights to the BIG 5. Can only, maybe see an EFL or at a push JTR. ATH may be a goer...city break, ferry terminal for island hopping etc. Turkey is well served now, even with H4U pulling their 2 flights.

 

[tleeds]

I'm not sure whether the SSH has been dropped by TOM. I agree Markietg - we have just about nearly secured every sun route possible with a few here and there. I think the next step is really: Securing City routes to Eastern Europe and Spain. Spain - to say that it is very popular - only serves around 6 or 7 mainland routes and some in Portugal would be great as well i.e. Porto.
The issue we have with Spain is LS dropped their Valencia, Madrid and Almeria routes relatively quickly after opening them. An airline opening these routes as well as, Santander, Seville etc. would be, I feel, a great success story for the airport.
Greece, Turkey, Italy and France are well covered at the moment but I'm sure some expansion into Germany e.g. FRA would be welcomed with open arms as well.

 

[White Heather]

I agree Tomleeds. I might also agree with you markietg, but I am afraid that in a few instances, you lost me with all those airport codes. Full names would be good for those of us who are not familiar with all the European airport codes. I am OK with most, but what is SPU? Assuming PUY is Pula - distant memories of this in the days of Yugotours! - Is it Split? What is EFL or JTR? Got the rest!

I would like to see Ljubjana back too - always a popular Lakes and Mountains destination in the days of Yugotours. I am assuming the Lakes and Mountains are still there, so now things are settled over there, it seems odd that this is not a destination anyone seems to bother with now, apart from a few operators. I know it popularity is waning a little, but I would really like to see Las Palmas back as a scheduled flight, if only once a week. My family have just been there and had to fly with Monarch from Manchester, which is rediculous. It is the only Canary island not served (apart from the TCX charter). I agree that we need at least one SSH a week, but Jet2 scrapped them from all bases didn't they, so it would be quite a turnaround for them to re-instate them again in 2012.

As for Greece, it would be nice to see some of the less mainstream flights out of LBA, such as Santorini and Mykonos. I can't see it happening though. A few more Corfu flights wouldn't go amiss either - I am surprised the Jet2 flight is only June to September. There's nowt wrong with Corfu in May and I would have thought 2 flights a week would be do-able.

 

[wawkrk]

I agree with you Heather about the airport codes.They drive me potty.You need to be a bit of an anorak to memorise all these.Real names would be better.Sorry markietg, not getting at you, it happens all the time.We all know LBA and AMS LHR etc. but after that it becomes a bit fuzzy because the code does not always give you a clue as to the real name.
However, how about the old Sunseeker routes? They perfomed well until the company had cash flow problems but they proved demand existed when no other company flew to Greece or the islands from Leeds (LBA).