Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[TheLocalYokel]

Planespotters dream house! Also a very nice house!

What life is really like living next door to Cardiff Airport

Gun shots, private jets and aircraft fanatics are just some of things you will experience

www.walesonline.co.uk

A pleasant change from the reaction of many people who buy houses near airports then constantly whinge about the noise.

 

[a300boy]

The airport has a duty to keep noise to a minimum and good relationships with nearby residents is good policy for all airports.

 

[Jerry]

According to the Green party Wales doesn't need an airport!

General election: Wales Green's leader says country does not need an airport

But the party's Welsh leader stops short of calling for Cardiff Airport to be scrapped.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[bluebols]

Slaughter seems an apt name for this Green candidate.

 

[geoff]

Does he want people to travel further to catch a plane, therefore creating more pollution on the roads. This man is a candidate for The Vale of Glamorgan, the home of the airport, does he want some of his constituents to lose their jobs? Those of us who live to the west of the airport, have no desire to drive past our own airport to fly from elsewhere. I hope the other candidates take note of his stance.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

As the Green Party aren't likely to form the government any time soon they can say what they like.

The UK can't unilaterally put a tax on aviation fuel because it's subject to international agreement to which the UK is a signatory.

Notice the use of words here too: 'it (aviation) is one of the biggest increasing contributors to carbon emissions'. Even he doesn't go so far as to say that aviation is one of the biggest contributors of carbon emissions because it's not. It contributes around 2% of the world's emissions. A lot of people will read it as aviation being the one of the biggest contributors which is no doubt the intention of the Green Party. If aviation is increasing its emissions more than other sources it will be in percentage terms with aviation having a miniscule base compared with other types of polluter.

In the summer I had a long conversation with a Green Party member when that party had a stall on Bristol Harbourside objecting to expansion of Bristol Airport. She was pleasant and our conversation entirely polite and civilised, but like so many idealists she failed to take into account the realities of everyday existence.

 

[geoff]

It amazes me that these people pick on aviation as one of the worst polluters, perhaps they should visit Delhi or Beijing where people on the ground have difficulty breathing because of the smog.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It amazes me that these people pick on aviation as one of the worst polluters, perhaps they should visit Delhi or Beijing where people on the ground have difficulty breathing because of the smog.

And he's bothered about CWL expansion when Istanbul's new airport will be able to handle 200 million passengers a year, with China planning to build 200 new airports in the next 15 years and India 100.

It's purely symbolism that goes down well with the climate change lobby. If the UK could be become carbon zero it would have virtually no effect on the world as a whole as long as other countries continue to go their own way. China and India are still emerging economic and industrial powers and need huge amounts of energy. The USA is to withdraw from the Paris Agreement on mitigating climate change because it will adversely affect the US economy. Yet we have Green Party members and others going around trying to restrict the growth of small airports in the UK and thus damage our economy.

 

[geoff]

Well said TLY, I agree with you completely.

 

[Jerry]

Another thing is that an alternative isn't mentioned. He says Wales doesn't need an airport but how are people to travel to and from Wales directly? If you look at the busiest routes from Cardiff there isn't much of an alternative. The train to Glasgow would take 7 hours and to get to Ireland requires a boat. Of course aviation wise there is Bristol and London and Birmingham but all that achieves is just transferring the flights to them not stopping people from actually flying.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Another thing is that an alternative isn't mentioned. He says Wales doesn't need an airport but how are people to travel to and from Wales directly? If you look at the busiest routes from Cardiff there isn't much of an alternative. The train to Glasgow would take 7 hours and to get to Ireland requires a boat. Of course aviation wise there is Bristol and London and Birmingham but all that achieves is just transferring the flights to them not stopping people from actually flying.

They don't look beyond the end of their noses - if that far.

 

[rollo]

Caroline Lucas the green parties one and only M.P. yesterday said that although the imminent climate disaster facing the human race must be the worlds priority unfortunately it didn't apply to her as it is necessary for her to visit family in the United States.

Actually she didn't quite phrase it like that but that is what it amounts to - hypocrite like many of them.

 

[Jarvo]

Flying is a vital part of global infrastructure, connectivity and economy. A journey across the Atlantic can be done in hours as opposed to days. Flying is vital, yet contributes just 2% of global emissions. The fashion industry, however, accounts for 8%!!
Aviation is an easy target for lobbyists as it is a very visual and noisy industry. There is also a great degree of personal responsibility that can be applied to the passengers due to the fact that all the emissions are very much there to be seen up close when flying. In industries such as fashion, where the emissions are belched out in far away lands, loaded on to enormous ships nobody ever sails on and then sent to landfill where no one ever visits, it's very difficult to make the consumer feel responsible for the far greater impact their clothes have created. You'll see plenty of activists outside airports, but you don't see climate activists outside Primark stores. Perhaps they should begin their protests there as I'm sure the scaling down of the fashion industry would make very little difference to people's every day lives.
Would banning aviation make that much difference to global emissions? Not really. Would it DESTROY economies, long-distance relationships and supply chains? Absolutely.

 

[Jarvo]

There have been conversations on here before about the reach of BRS into S.Wales regarding marketing. I just thought I'd add these screenshots of searches on Google.
I live in the South Wales Valleys, what should be a prime target for CWL.

A Google search for flights comes up with Skyscanner first, as I'm sure most will regardless of geographic location. Secondly is a sponsored Google flights advert and booking tool showing Bristol as the airport.

It takes a specific search for Cardiff airport to see any advertisement for the airport... And when it comes up, it's an advertisement for booking car parking.

I'm by no means a marketer, but surely car parking is an add on once you've secured a booking through the airport.

Google is the biggest marketing tool in the world and for advertisements to only appear once you've explicitly searched for Cardiff airport kind of defeats the point of advertising. And then when it does come up, it's for a product that no-one will want unless they've already booked a flight.

Just thought it was a stark difference in marketing clout and strategy, especially in such a crucial region.

 

[Jerry]

Probably down to algorithms. Parking is probably the most searched for thing for Cardiff and sadly Bristol is the most flown from airport for the area and I don't see that changing.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

There have been conversations on here before about the reach of BRS into S.Wales regarding marketing. I just thought I'd add these screenshots of searches on Google.
I live in the South Wales Valleys, what should be a prime target for CWL.

A Google search for flights comes up with Skyscanner first, as I'm sure most will regardless of geographic location. Secondly is a sponsored Google flights advert and booking tool showing Bristol as the airport.

It takes a specific search for Cardiff airport to see any advertisement for the airport... And when it comes up, it's an advertisement for booking car parking.

I'm by no means a marketer, but surely car parking is an add on once you've secured a booking through the airport.

Google is the biggest marketing tool in the world and for advertisements to only appear once you've explicitly searched for Cardiff airport kind of defeats the point of advertising. And then when it does come up, it's for a product that no-one will want unless they've already booked a flight.

Just thought it was a stark difference in marketing clout and strategy, especially in such a crucial region.

Probably down to algorithms. Parking is probably the most searched for thing for Cardiff and sadly Bristol is the most flown from airport for the area and I don't see that changing.

How, why and when BRS became the dominant Severnside airport in terms of passenger market share might almost be a subject for a doctoral thesis.

The when, in terms of raw passenger numbers, is easy to discern from CAA stats. I reproduce the annual passenger numbers for CWL and BRS below going back to 1961 (shown in millions per year) - courtesy of the CAA.

It will be seen that until the mid 1980s both airports were broadly at par each year. 1986 is the last year that CWL handled more passengers than BRS.

The later 80s and 90s saw BRS gradually moving ahead and this trend increased significantly from 2001 after first GoFly and then easyJet (into which Go was absorbed) came onto the scene there. bmibaby's arrival at CWL in late 2002 did little to stem the increasing disparity between the two airports in subsequent years.

The major recession of the 'noughties' hit CWL harder than many other airports. From a record near 2.1 milion passengers in 2007 the airport then saw substantial falls in each of the following five years to the point where it had lost 50% of its 2007 passenger numbers. BRS, on the other hand, fared better than most other UK airports during the recession seing a drop in passenger numbers in only one year - 2009 - although it was a near 10% fall.

Since then BRS has grown every year and is now nearly 60% above its 2009 annual passenger total. CWL, on the other hand, is still 20% below its 2007 record year, although the last five years (including the current part year) have all seen welcome and consistent steady passenger growth.

Those are the indisputable statistics - the when. The how and the why are much less easy to decipher. To be able to do so would need a lot of inside information that would be impossible for one individual or one group to obtain.

Obvious factors include the relative sizes and economic strengths of the catchments; the quality of ownership and senior management; the success of easyJet at BRS which is well beyond either the airport's or airline's original conception.

Those are only simplistic headlines and much research would be needed to demonstrate to what degree they played a part, and what other factors might have influenced the situation.

Year.... CWL.... BRS

1961.... 0.069.... 0.059
1962.... 0.075.... 0.070
1963.... 0.093.... 0.079
1964.... 0.104.... 0.095
1965.... 0.112... 0.106
1966.... 0.139... 0.136
1967.... 0.136.... 0.134
1968.... 0.130.... 0.130
1969.... 0.116.... 0.120
1970.... 0.171.... 0.152
1971.... 0.213.... 0.201
1972.... 0.239.... 0.262
1973.... 0.284.... 0.289
1974.... 0.230.... 0.184
1975.... 0.209.... 0.195
1976.... 0.192.... 0.205
1977.... 0.196.... 0.211
1978.... 0.234.... 0.233
1979.... 0.254.... 0.238
1980.... 0.261.... 0.239
1981.... 0.294.... 0.246
1982.... 0.360.... 0.261
1983.... 0.383.... 0.331
1984.... 0.429.... 0.423
1985 .... 0.387.... 0.402
1986 .... 0.487.... 0.469
1987.... 0.632 .... 0.645
1988.... 0.619 .... 0.705
1989.... 0.696.... 0.838
1990.... 0.593.... 0.774
1991.... 0.513.... 0.783
1992.... 0.653.... 1.026
1993.... 0.764.... 1.112
1994.... 0.990.... 1.276
1995.... 1.025.... 1.430
1996.... 1.001.... 1.394
1997.... 1.124.... 1.586
1998.... 1.230.... 1.814
1999.... 1.303.... 1.966
2000.... 1.500.... 2.124
2001.... 1.524.... 2.673
2002.... 1.416.... 3.415
2003.... 1.900.... 3.887
2004.... 1.873.... 4.603
2005.... 1.765.... 5.199
2006.... 1.993..... 5.710
2007.... 2.094.... 5.884
2008.... 1.979..... 6.229
2009.... 1.625.... 5.615
2010.... 1.398.... 5.723
2011.... 1.208.... 5.768
2012.... 1.013.... 5.916
2013.... 1.057.... 6.125
2014.... 1.020.... 6.333
2015.... 1.158.... 6.781
2016.... 1.344.... 7.604
2017.... 1.464.... 8.234
2018.... 1.579.... 8.697
2019....1.660*.... 8.918*
*12-month rolling total to August 2019

 

[Jerry]

Summer 2020
It looks like this will be how many weekly departures will operate at peak summer from Cardiff Airport
Flybe 58 weekly departures 4524 seats onsale
TUI 51 weekly departures 9639 seats onsale
KLM 20 weekly departures 1844 seats onsale
Eastern Airways 16 weekly departures 464 seats onsale
Vueling 13 weekly departures 2418 seats onsale
Ryanair 9 weekly departures 1701 seats onsale
Loganair 8 weekly departures 384 weekly seats onsale
Qatar Airways 7 weekly departures 1778 weekly seats onsale
BH Air 1 weekly departure 180 weekly seats onsale

183 weekly departures (366 flights) 22,932 departing seats onsale (45,864 seats altogether).

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

How much down on 2019 will this be?

 

[Jerry]

How much down on 2019 will this be?

With Flybe it'll be a loss of 18 weekly departures. Loss of 1584 seats.
TUI is an extra 4 weekly during peak summer. An extra 729.
Vueling is a loss of 2 weekly. Loss of 372 seats
Ryanair a loss of 1 weekly loss of 189 seats.
Loganair is an extra 8 weekly an extra 400 seats.
KLM has extra seat capacity but not departures. An extra 84 seats.
Eastern, BH and Qatar are unchanged.

Overall if I've got the maths right the airport will minus 932 seats (1864) from the airlines that are operating but with Thomas Cook it'll be a loss of 4012 weekly departing seats. Which is 8024 weekly seats altogether during peak summer if July and August.

 

[Scottie Dog]

With Flybe it'll be a loss of 18 weekly departures. Loss of 1584 seats.
TUI is an extra 4 weekly during peak summer. An extra 729.
Vueling is a loss of 2 weekly. Loss of 372 seats
Ryanair a loss of 1 weekly loss of 189 seats.
Loganair is an extra 8 weekly an extra 400 seats.
KLM has extra seat capacity but not departures. An extra 84 seats.
Eastern, BH and Qatar are unchanged.

Overall if I've got the maths right the airport will minus 932 seats from the airlines that are operating but with Thomas Cook it'll be a loss of 4012 weekly departing seats. Which is 8024 weekly seats altogether during peak summer if July and August.
[/QUOTE
I've only glanced at your figures Jerry but based on Ryanair at 189 shouldn't you be doubling the numbers to account for return flights?