Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[mathers_wales_uk]

The airport can never win unless there is a huge influx of new routes and passenger numbers rise above 2007 levels.

The airport have tried to highlight that the information is incorrect as it is baseline figures for ad-hoc/one-off flights however people who think they know everything have already done the damage by spreading inaccuracies and don’t think this will change any time soon

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Local airports can never win with many people who live in their area. Bristol Airport has been mentioned in recent posts in this thread but whenever the local radio station does a phone-in about it many people moan and complain about not being to fly anywhere from Bristol; that it's an airstrip in a field; it's Trumpton International; it has nothing but low-cost airlines; profits line the pockets of its overseas owners; why can't I fly to (insert any far-flung destination) from Bristol instead of having to go to Heathrow?; why can't Bristol have a proper airport? the airport should have been at Filton (perhaps the only valid arguable point). These points crop up regularly in local phone-ins and in the local press when BRS is in the news.

These people seem to think BRS ought to be a mini Heathrow with long-haul flights here there and everywhere, which many appear to believe is actually the case at most regional airports around the country.

On a phone-in about BRS last year someone compared Cardiff Airport which they described as a 'proper airport' (perhaps it was Roger Lewis - only joking). I remember on one occasion someone phoned in to praise BRS and the next person to phone said, "That last bloke must work for the airport".

It's like life in general. If someone has a good experience (not just with aviation) they might tell someone. If they have a bad experience they will be moaning about it to anyone who will listen.

CWL is not alone in being the butt of local criticism.

 

[bluebols]

Looking at the arrival and departure boards makes very sorry reading, I hope the airport gets a break soon.

 

[Jerry]

Unsurprisingly Andrew RT Davies is using the loss of Flybe to score political points against the labour!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1235506957932322816

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Unsurprisingly Andrew RT Davies is using the loss of Flybe to score political points against the labour!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1235506957932322816

Politicians sicken me at times - a lot of the time actually. I have no party political allegiance and so have no interest to declare with this.

I said in an earlier post elsewhere in the CWL forum that I'm no great fan of public ownership of airports but I don't think there was any other realistic choice in 2013 when the WG bought the airport.

What would Andrew RT Davies have done? Let the airport slide further downhill under the previous ownership that clearly had no interest in developing CWL into a thriving airport again? Try to find a private sector buyer when none apparently seemed interested at that time?

Had it been possible to find a private sector buyer there is no guarantee that the airprot would have been in a better position. It might still have been heavily reliant on Flybe as the private sector-owned EXT and SOU were - to a much greater extent than CWL.

 

[Jerry]

What would Andrew RT Davies have done?

I'm pretty sure he did an interview a while back with Aviation Wales and the gist of it was that he'd spend the money on airlines and not the airport and I'm assuming would leave investing in the terminal to private owners which would be no guarantee that the investment would be made. Even with public ownership the airport has had to produce business plans to lay out what any loans will be spent on and a lot of it is infrastructure in the terminal.
The general problem is that people see what seems a lot of money spent but no mass of Ryanair or Easyjet flights in return and I generally don't think if the airport was in private hands or under a Tory or Plaid government it would be better off. In private hands it might even be worse off as they might be reluctant to invest the money into the airport and ironically may well be asking the government for money as well!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I'm pretty sure he did an interview a while back with Aviation Wales and the gist of it was that he'd spend the money on airlines and not the airport and I'm assuming would leave investing in the terminal to private owners which would be no guarantee that the investment would be made.

Watching the meetings of the Westminster Welsh Affairs Committee and The WG Public Accounts Committee showed clearly that most politicians have a very poor grasp of civil aviation generally and locally.

 

[Jarvo]

Welsh Conservatives Release Five Point Plan For Cardiff Airport

The welsh Conservatives have published their 5 point plan for the airport if they were to form a Government in the Senedd. Interestingly it mainly consists of things they slate the current Welsh Gov for doing, such as investing in CWL route development and infrastructure. Even more ridiculously they mention the importance of scrapping APD!!! The inconsistencies from politicians using the airport as a political football is beyond parody.

 

[Jerry]

So basically they'll do the same thing as Labour but say its different!

 

[Jerry]

And what makes them think that they'll be more successful than Labour in getting APD devolved? Surely the same UK government objections would apply!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

And what makes them think that they'll be more successful than Labour in getting APD devolved? Surely the same UK government objections would apply!

A new chancellor might have different views although some believe he is Johnson's pawn. If he did devolve APD to the WG he would doubtless have to do something about short-haul APD in Northern Ireland.

If he is interested in looking at APD generally in the UK he'd have to wait until the end of the transition period on 31 December before anything innovative he might introduce could come into effect because of EU rules.

Would Wales be any better off if, say, short-haul APD was abolished completely in the UK as CWL would not have a competitive advantage in the way it would if APD was abolished in Wales but not in England? Not that it looks as though short-haul APD will be abolished across the UK.

 

[Jerry]

Just a few thoughts of mine on the points they seem to be highlighting.
"It is not, after all, the business of a government – especially one that has failed Wales in so many ways – to own airports.”
Maybe the Tories want to tell the owners of Qatar Airways that! And Ben Houchen the Mayor of Teesside who brought MME back into public ownership.
“It is failing, it has failed to diversify, and most troubling, it has not been supported by the Welsh Labour administration”
“The evidence of seven years’ Welsh Labour Government ownership of Cardiff Airport – our national airport - is compelling.
It's increased passenger numbers to nearly 1.7 million and has attracted a new FBO Global Trek, now operates St Athan and Angelesy and i'd have thought helping to attract Qatar Airways and 10s of millions in loans is support.
“It should also include working with the UK Government to devolve and scrap Air Passenger Duty.
UK government specifically said that devolving APD could harm English airports so why would they do it?
“The airport has needed a bold strategy for some time, and where once it was necessary, it is now absolutely critical, and it’s scandalous that the Welsh government has no plan for the airport.”
Masterplan 2040, surely the WG had some input in that or at least approves it.
“A future Welsh Conservatives Government will publish a comprehensive strategy for Cardiff Airport with the aim of returning it to the commercial sector at the earliest opportunity and at a profit to the Welsh taxpayer.”
Well if the airport is failing why would investors buy it at a price that means the Welsh government gets a profit?
"Supporting route development, prioritising a direct flight link to the USA and to Manchester"
Both targets for Labour so no difference there.
"Developing a new marketing strategy for the airport"
Consisting of what? Why no specifics?
"Improving transport links to the airport to make the airport more accessible by investing in better road, rail and public transport links"
This is an ongoing thing. 5 mile lane has just been upgraded and the Metro should help with public transport.
"Investing in the airport's capital infrastructure to enable the airport to diversify and generate new sources of revenue."
What does that actually mean? The airport has gained Global trek, St Athan and VLY to manage and is improving it's cargo operation through Qatar and the airport has put in a lot of investment into the terminal.

Welsh Conservatives outline five-point plan for Cardiff Airport

Welsh Conservatives outline five-point plan for Cardiff Airport The Welsh Conservatives have outlined a five-point plan for the troubled, state-owned Cardiff Airport.

www.conservatives.wales

 

[aviatorconcorde]

Just a few thoughts of mine on the points they seem to be highlighting.
"It is not, after all, the business of a government – especially one that has failed Wales in so many ways – to own airports.”
Maybe the Tories want to tell the owners of Qatar Airways that! And Ben Houchen the Mayor of Teesside who brought MME back into public ownership.
“It is failing, it has failed to diversify, and most troubling, it has not been supported by the Welsh Labour administration”
“The evidence of seven years’ Welsh Labour Government ownership of Cardiff Airport – our national airport - is compelling.
It's increased passenger numbers to nearly 1.7 million and has attracted a new FBO Global Trek, now operates St Athan and Angelesy and i'd have thought helping to attract Qatar Airways and 10s of millions in loans is support.
“It should also include working with the UK Government to devolve and scrap Air Passenger Duty.
UK government specifically said that devolving APD could harm English airports so why would they do it?
“The airport has needed a bold strategy for some time, and where once it was necessary, it is now absolutely critical, and it’s scandalous that the Welsh government has no plan for the airport.”
Masterplan 2040, surely the WG had some input in that or at least approves it.
“A future Welsh Conservatives Government will publish a comprehensive strategy for Cardiff Airport with the aim of returning it to the commercial sector at the earliest opportunity and at a profit to the Welsh taxpayer.”
Well if the airport is failing why would investors buy it at a price that means the Welsh government gets a profit?
"Supporting route development, prioritising a direct flight link to the USA and to Manchester"
Both targets for Labour so no difference there.
"Developing a new marketing strategy for the airport"
Consisting of what? Why no specifics?
"Improving transport links to the airport to make the airport more accessible by investing in better road, rail and public transport links"
This is an ongoing thing. 5 mile lane has just been upgraded and the Metro should help with public transport.
"Investing in the airport's capital infrastructure to enable the airport to diversify and generate new sources of revenue."
What does that actually mean? The airport has gained Global trek, St Athan and VLY to manage and is improving it's cargo operation through Qatar and the airport has put in a lot of investment into the terminal.

Welsh Conservatives outline five-point plan for Cardiff Airport

Welsh Conservatives outline five-point plan for Cardiff Airport The Welsh Conservatives have outlined a five-point plan for the troubled, state-owned Cardiff Airport.

www.conservatives.wales

It is just complete rubbish and not worth reading. If the Tories were in power or even Plaid, the opposition would be saying similar things.

“Money could be better spent on the NHS” etc etc etc

 

[Jerry]

The Conservatives do seem to be going after the airport. This tweet says it should be sold. If it did go back to the private sector what's to stop any owner constantly getting handouts from the Welsh government instead of investing in the airport themselves. Assuming that they would invest in the airport.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1237407706731950080

 

[Nuffsaid]

Got to love the Tories for always trying to keep Wales as a little subservient English backwater. The problem is judging by the voting at the last election, a lot of Welsh are happy with that.
There is a budget announcement today with much money being invested into infrastructure. You can guarantee there will be little for Wales in it. CWL under the Tories would become a housing estate.

 

[Jerry]

Got to love the Tories for always trying to keep Wales as a little subservient English backwater. The problem is judging by the voting at the last election, a lot of Welsh are happy with that.
There is a budget announcement today with much money being invested into infrastructure. You can guarantee there will be little for Wales in it. CWL under the Tories would become a housing estate.

For many of them the airport is a good stick to beat Labour with especially no matter how it does they can brand it a failure somehow as it doesn't have the routes or is ever likely to that many of them consider is needed for the airport to be successful and a proper international airport.
For a lot of them, I'd say the more fanatical it's about ideology. They see the airport as nothing more than a bucket and spade airport for Cardiff and not the national airport for Wales because many don't see Wales as an actual country and i'm sad to say many of those people say they are supporters of the airport as well.

 

[Jerry]

The airport was debated in the Senedd yesterday. I haven't listened to it all but it starts around 2 hours 46 minutes.
http://www.senedd.tv/Meeting/Clip/1...576a467a2c?inPoint=00:00:00&outPoint=08:50:35

 

[Pontyboy]

250 million GVA to Welsh economy. How can Labour shed more positive light on ownership? Without the airport how would the Welsh economy shrink? How many Job losses? BAMC is diversification is it not? It seems all politicians are pretty bad at getting the public on side.

The airport needs to be bold in the short term....I think money should be spent on wet leasing a low number of Airbus A220's after EU regs no longer apply and get the airport and the economy properly connected to cities that help business flourish....not bucket and spade routes.

 

[Jerry]

not bucket and spade routes.

The problem is that bucket and spade routes pay the bills. Airline strategy wise it's probably a case of engage with Ryanair, TUI and Vueling to add the bucket and spade routes and engage with Loganair and Eastern to add domestic and Scottish frequency and reconnect with Ireland and personally i'd try and get a carrier like Air France onto Paris but even without the coronavirus Cardiff isn't going to be a priority for airlines wanting to replace Flybe and no doubt it'll take quite a while just to regain Dublin, Belfasr and Paris.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I think money should be spent on wet leasing a low number of Airbus A220's after EU regs no longer apply and get the airport and the economy properly connected to cities that help business flourish....not bucket and spade routes.

How would they do that?