Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Jerry]

This is the problem, they have to rely essentially on trusting people to self isolate and i imagine many won't.
I actually wonder if they would be better off focusing on countries with high death rates rather than cases especially if the travel industry is going to recover.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

This is the problem, they have to rely essentially on trusting people to self isolate and i imagine many won't.
I actually wonder if they would be better off focusing on countries with high death rates rather than cases especially if the travel industry is going to recover.

It's still not a panacea but testing inbound passengers when they arrive in the UK, as many in the aviation industry have been calling for, might be a better option than self-isolation with all its pitfalls. The snag is that test results might not be instant leaving passengers to roam the UK whilst infected.

If a system could be devised where bulk test results were instant then that might be a way forward.

I don't see how this suck-it- and-see situation where countries come and go from the quarantine list can continue indefinitely. Airlines and airports would be in an impossible situation and some would eventually fail.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Crete holidaymaker may stay in Bristol to avoid 'joke' quarantine

'I'll just stay there and live my life as normal'

www.bristolpost.co.uk

This Cardiff resident who is on holiday in Crete is considering putting up in a hotel in Bristol when he returns to the UK to avoid the WG's quarantine regulations.

 

[Jerry]

Crete holidaymaker may stay in Bristol to avoid 'joke' quarantine

'I'll just stay there and live my life as normal'

www.bristolpost.co.uk

Crete holidaymaker may stay in Bristol to avoid 'joke' quarantine

'I'll just stay there and live my life as normal'

www.bristolpost.co.uk

This Cardiff resident who is on holiday in Crete is considering putting up in a hotel in Bristol when he returns to the UK to avoid the WG's quarantine regulations.

Except he won't be as he's a Welsh resident as soon as he steps into Wales he'd be required to self isolate.

 

[Jerry]

I don't see how this suck-it- and-see situation where countries come and go from the quarantine list can continue indefinitely. Airlines and airports would be in an impossible situation and some would eventually fail.

Someone mentioned elsewhere that with changing the quarantine all the time that the Welsh government are essentially undermining their own airport and that there would be no airlines left flying from Cardiff. It's feared in particular that Ryanair will have enough and leave Cardiff because Portugal has been reinstated to the list. Personally with reported loads in their 20s I'm surprised Vueling is still operating.

 

[superking]

With airlines and holidays it makes you wonder where all this is going to end up. Not helping the buisness traveler either.With airlines making staff redundunt ,its all very frightening,and we must not forget the airports either.

 

[Jerry]

It doesn't give the industry much stability.

 

[geoff]

Tailor Made Travel went into administration, last Thursday afternoon, Hays Travel was approached by the administrators on Friday and purchased all twenty stores, and retained all 100 staff. This puts Hays Travel in a very strong position in South Wales having already bought all the Thomas Cook shops, let's hope it brings more trade to CWL. Do Hays Travel operate any inclusive tours or flights on their own behalf?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Tailor Made Travel went into administration, last Thursday afternoon, Hays Travel was approached by the administrators on Friday and purchased all twenty stores, and retained all 100 staff. This puts Hays Travel in a very strong position in South Wales having already bought all the Thomas Cook shops, let's hope it brings more trade to CWL. Do Hays Travel operate any inclusive tours or flights on their own behalf?

As far as I'm aware although Hays is the largest independent travel agent in the UK it uses tour operators to provide package holidays for its customers.

Slightly surprising that Hays is expanding in this way because only last month the company announced nearly 900 redundancies. Now it's taking on 100 staff from Tailor Made.

Hays Travel 'devastated' as it cuts almost 900 jobs

The firm says new travel restrictions have triggered hundreds of thousands of holiday cancellations.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[geoff]

I've since checked and they hold an ATOL licence (no,5534) for over 7000 passengers in their own right. I thought I had read it somewhere before, most of their passengers must have been in the North East, as their HQ is in Sunderland, I don't think they had a presence in South Wales prior to the Thomas Cook collapse.

 

[geoff]

The consultation on redundancies at Hays was with 344 trainee travel consultants, and 534 foreign exchange staff,

 

[Jerry]

A row is breaking out over state aid which could have an effect on Cardiff Airport in the future.
Welsh and Scottish governments are insisting its a devolved matter so the powers should be returned to Cardiff and Edinburgh. UK government insists its not and want the powers returned to London but wants to put it on the reserved powers list which the Welsh and Scottish governments say is them acknowledging it is! The UK internal market bill gets released tomorrow! That's going to be interesting!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I know that not all F4A members read every forum so there might be some followers of this thread who are unaware of events at BRS that might have an important bearing on CWL.

At the beginning of this year North Somerset Unitary Authority rejected a BRS planning application to expand its facilities and at the same time increase its planning cap to 12 million passengers a year from the current 10 million limit. The councillors took this decision against the advice of their own planning officers who recommended approval.

Until COVID intervened BRS projected that their 10 million limit would be reached by the end of next year. They had gone though 9 million in the rolling 12 months at the beginning of this year.

This would mean that airlines wanting to increase their BRS presence or set up a new presence would have to look elsewhere if they were looking at south west Britain, with CWL and EXT the obvious alternatives.

The Welsh Government and its airport company recognised this as both formally objected to the BRS planning application saying that there was unused capacity at CWL that could be used without the need for further BRS expansion.The EXT owners and managers did not object formally.

The BRS owners announced in recent weeks that they would lodge an appeal against their local authority’s rejection and last week formally submitted it. The English Planning Inspectorate is the body that will deal with the appeal. A planning inspector will be appointed to look into all aspects and, because of the nature of the application, it will be subject of a public enquiry. Any interested party can submit evidence and if desired can do so in person at the enquiry. It remains to be seen how the Welsh Government and its airport company will present their case (as presumably they will).

The appointed planning inspector can make the final decision and allow or dismiss the appeal, but with an application of this nature it’s highly likely that the Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (Robert Jenrick, MP for Newark) will ‘recover’ the appeal to make the final decision himself. He will take into account recommendations made by the appointed planning inspector following the public enquiry but is not bound by them.

Clearly it is in the interest of the Welsh Government, its airport company and Wales in general for the BRS appeal to be dismissed. If that were to happen BRS would be stuck with a 10 million passengers per annum limit (mppa) for the foreseeable future, a limit it would have reached by next year but for the pandemic.

Although COVID has blunted all airport growth for the time being, within the next few years it’s still likely that BRS will have reached its 10 mppa limit.

 

[Jerry]

I'm sure that the WG and airport will both put in evidence against expansion at Bristol but i expect that their biggest concerns now and in the future will be stopping the loss of routes and flights and airlines and start to regain them and the lost routes. Bristol will no doubt reach 10 million but having them capped won't help Cardiff if they have no airlines and very little routes.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I'm sure that the WG and airport will both put in evidence against expansion at Bristol but i expect that their biggest concerns now and in the future will be stopping the loss of routes and flights and airlines and start to regain them and the lost routes. Bristol will no doubt reach 10 million but having them capped won't help Cardiff if they have no airlines and very little routes.

Isn't the point that if BRS is permanently capped at 10 mppa its inability to grow further will lead airlines to look for alternatives which would mean CWL and, probably to a lesser extent, EXT? That would be a way of getting more airlines and routes into CWL and has to be part of the rationale of the Welsh Government's opposition to BRS expansion.

BRS is often cited as a brake on CWL development. If it's effectively closed to further business that brake will have been released.

The only thing that has altered is the possible timescale. Before the pandemic struck it looked as though CWL might be 'in business' by 2022 by which time BRS would have been 'maxed out' at its current 10 mppa limit. Airlines looking to grow in south west Britain would have been aware of BRS's looming barrier during 2021 and would have been making other arrangements to serve this segment of the country from 2022.

The pandemic has pushed back this obstacle (to BRS) for perhaps three or four years which also gives BRS more time to try to overturn its expansion plans rejection.

 

[Jerry]

BRS is often cited as a brake on CWL development. If it's effectively closed to further business that brake will have been released.

It is i think it stops it or makes it harder for it to grow past the 2 million passengers mark as for that I think a 2 to 3 aircraft base for a LCC would be required and the 2 biggest candidates already base at Bristol. Also maybe partially responsible for the Flybe base closure in helping to keep yields low on many routes and maybe for loganair dropping Cardiff but KLM were growing nicely, Vueling and TUI and Qatar Airways as well and of course we had Ryanair expanding which may have been the result of competition at Bristol.
The one problem as well with relying on Bristol being capped is that there would be the threat of it being lifted and all the airlines dumping Cardiff to focus on Bristol again.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

It is i think it stops it or makes it harder for it to grow past the 2 million passengers mark as for that I think a 2 to 3 aircraft base for a LCC would be required and the 2 biggest candidates already base at Bristol. Also maybe partially responsible for the Flybe base closure in helping to keep yields low on many routes and maybe for loganair dropping Cardiff but KLM were growing nicely, Vueling and TUI and Qatar Airways as well and of course we had Ryanair expanding which may have been the result of competition at Bristol.
The one problem as well with relying on Bristol being capped is that there would be the threat of it being lifted and all the airlines dumping Cardiff to focus on Bristol again.

If BRS was permanently capped at 10 mppa the likes of Ryanair and even easyJet would have to look at CWL if they wanted to add capacity in south west Britain.

Although at the moment when we look at the pandemic it's easy to think that the aviation sector will never be the same again, the truth is that since commercial aviation began it has grown and grown with periodic obstacles placed in its way that halted growth for a while such as a world war, recessions, terrorism effects, volcanic eruption and now the coronavirus. The industry has always overcome such obstacles and resumed its growth path. South West Britain won't be left out of the industry growth when it resumes and airlines will want to be part of it.

If BRS loses its appeal it will largely be the result of environmental issues. That argument is unlikely to disappear until aircraft are powered by fuel that does not pollute in any way, so a capped BRS would be likely to remain so for a long time. Looking at it from a BRS perspective it would be a tremendous burden: running a company that wants to grow and is capable of growth but is prevented from doing so by external forces.

It's likely to come down to a political decision which if it goes in favour of the airport will be challenged in the courts by opponents as far as they possibly can.

 

[Jerry]

If BRS loses its appeal it will largely be the result of environmental issues. That argument is unlikely to disappear until aircraft are powered by fuel that does not pollute in any way, so a capped BRS would be likely to remain so for a long time. Looking at it from a BRS perspective it would be a tremendous burden: running a company that wants to grow and is capable of growth but is prevented from doing so by external forces.

It's likely to come down to a political decision which if it goes in favour of the airport will be challenged in the courts by opponents as far as they possibly can.

I'd expect it will be a long process with appeal after appeal. I wonder if these things go to the Supreme court?

If BRS was permanently capped at 10 mppa the likes of Ryanair and even easyJet would have to look at CWL if they wanted to add capacity in south west Britain.

I suppose that is the hope especially from Ryanair.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I'd expect it will be a long process with appeal after appeal. I wonder if these things go to the Supreme court?

It might well take a couple of years from now to get through the public enquiry, a subsequent decision by the planning inspector or, more likely, by the secretary of state, and legal challenges thereafter.

My understanding is that the route for a challenge would be via the Administrative Court of the Queens Bench Division with an appeal against that court's decision lying with the Supreme Administrative Court, although the latter court will first look to see if grounds exist for an appeal to it before acceding to such a request. It's obviously to stop the Supreme Court's time being wasted by spurious appeals. Decisions of the Supreme Administrative Court are not subject to appeal.

 

[Marko1]

Personally I think Cardiff should not rely on the chances of a failed planning application by a nearby airport as a source for growth. Cardiff should try to earn that growth by its own means. If Ryanair thought there was a market at Cardiff they would be there already as would easyJet or jet2. A capped Bristol would be more a gift to the London airports than Bristol and that could work in Bristol’s favour.