Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Foxlimayankee]

The North-South train link will soon be covered by newly refurbished trains with catering on board, providing I think a 2hrly direct service from Holyhead to Cardiff. It may well be 4 hours+ in journey time vs a 45min flight, but throw in check-in time, between 30mins up to 1.5hours before depending on when you want to arrive, journey time to/from the Airport at both ends, especially as many arriving in the North may not actually want to go to Holyhead, it could be Bangor or even further East and South. Journey time won't then be as bad as originally thought.
The Air Link continues being promoted as connectivity, and yes it certainly does enable some day trips to be done for work purposes, but since covid and less demand for face to face meetings it does put into question the viability of the route, especially with over £1m a year in funding for a maximum of 38 people per day in each direction.
The train journey leaves Holyhead at 0530 and arrives at 10am, and the return journey can be done at from Cardiff at 1712, arriving in Holyhead by 2145. Not that many people will be doing a day return every day, so that kind of day return can still be done occasionally, in the comfort of a train.

 

[Jerry]

Potentially if the Anglesey service does get scrapped could we see the end of Belfast as well with Eastern as the aircraft is at CWL to operate the PSO.

 

[geoff]

If the newer trains were to run from Holyhead to Swansea, instead of terminating at Cardiff it would encourage more people to use it, but if it remains at one journey each way I don't think it will encourage more passengers. At least with the plane, one days business can be carried out and return home in the evening. One days business on the train at the present time, means being away from home 3 days.

 

[Llandudno]

If the newer trains were to run from Holyhead to Swansea, instead of terminating at Cardiff it would encourage more people to use it, but if it remains at one journey each way I don't think it will encourage more passengers. At least with the plane, one days business can be carried out and return home in the evening. One days business on the train at the present time, means being away from home 3 days.

But realistically, how many business passengers are there? For those in North Wales that don’t work in North wales will do so in North West England or Birmingham.
Once again, I think some are vastly over exaggerating the importance of north-south links over civic pride.

As someone born and bred in North wales, with multiple family still in north wales, I can assure any south Walians that the north isn’t as integrated or reliant on the south as some would have you believe.

most business, VFR and leisure links from North wales are in England, not South Wales. And I’m sorry if that bursts any bubbles.

most of north wales views Cardiff and the south the same way those in the North west of England view London and the south, which is mostly with disdain.

 

[Jerry]

most of north wales views Cardiff and the south the same way those in the North west of England view London and the south, which is mostly with disdain.

No doubt there are and I expect that that in many ways there political leanings dictate how they see Wales in general but there are a lot of people from the north who don't feel that way and want better links and there are plenty of people in the south who don't give a crap about the north and see it as practically a foreign country. Reality is though we are one country and should look at ways of improving and investing in better internal transport infrastructure and links.

 

[Nuffsaid]

But realistically, how many business passengers are there? For those in North Wales that don’t work in North wales will do so in North West England or Birmingham.
Once again, I think some are vastly over exaggerating the importance of north-south links over civic pride.

As someone born and bred in North wales, with multiple family still in north wales, I can assure any south Walians that the north isn’t as integrated or reliant on the south as some would have you believe.

most business, VFR and leisure links from North wales are in England, not South Wales. And I’m sorry if that bursts any bubbles.

most of north wales views Cardiff and the south the same way those in the North west of England view London and the south, which is mostly with disdain.

The nation of Wales still needs decent transport links and if an air service provides that link for the time being until a quicker, more suitable and cheap form of transport is in place then so be it.
Setting aside the north south divide which you appear fixated with, the Welsh Government has for all its faults has at least tried to make the divide less obvious. If it was left to Westminster, Wales would still be connected by horse and cart and nobody would cross the beacons between north and south. If you want to remain divided then you will remain subjugated by your conqueror.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

If the newer trains were to run from Holyhead to Swansea, instead of terminating at Cardiff it would encourage more people to use it, but if it remains at one journey each way I don't think it will encourage more passengers. At least with the plane, one days business can be carried out and return home in the evening. One days business on the train at the present time, means being away from home 3 days.

Not really. The first train out of Holybead gets in to Cardiff Central at about 10 am before the plane even lands at Cardiff Airport, then whack on probably an hour travelling to Cardiff or Swansea and its practically lunchtime. The last service then leaves Cardiff Central at 1712, an hour after the flight had departed. Bearing in mind you'll need to be at the airport before 1530, so leave the city by 1430. That means if flying you get 2-3hrs in the city. By train you get around 6 hours of work time. There are also more options of travel on the train, not just the first and last ones. So if you need to do a good few hours work and avoid staying over, the train wins. If you need to pop down for an hours meeting that can be arranged at a convenient time, the plane wins, these days most will opt for an online meeting for something so short.

 

[Jerry]

Welsh Affairs Committee will be holding a one off session looking at the future of Air Passenger Duty tomorrow at 14.30. Roger Lewis and Simon Hart will be giving evidence.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1407795185497554948

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Welsh Affairs Committee will be holding a one off session looking at the future of Air Passenger Duty tomorrow at 14.30. Roger Lewis and Simon Hart will be giving evidence.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1407795185497554948

I thought that this committee had already recommended that the tax should be devolved.

 

[Jerry]

I thought that this committee had already recommended that the tax should be devolved.

Yep it did.

 

[Llandudno]

The nation of Wales still needs decent transport links and if an air service provides that link for the time being until a quicker, more suitable and cheap form of transport is in place then so be it.
Setting aside the north south divide which you appear fixated with, the Welsh Government has for all its faults has at least tried to make the divide less obvious. If it was left to Westminster, Wales would still be connected by horse and cart and nobody would cross the beacons between north and south. If you want to remain divided then you will remain subjugated by your conqueror.

I think you’ll find I’m not the one fixated with the North/South divide. Others are more so given they seem to think the North is reliant on South Wales business links, when it isn’t.
If the south wanted the North to prosper, then its rather funny that it’s the Sennedd on the verge of cancelling a major road project that would link North Wales better with Liverpool and Manchester, and thus would do 1000x more for business links than any North/South connection does.

but, the Sennedd can’t do any wrong can it? as long as we get our ‘faux independence’ based on ‘civic pride and showing those Westminster monsters’ than and real world business and development data, then nothing else matters really.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I thought that this committee had already recommended that the tax should be devolved.

Yep it did.

I wonder then why they feel the need to have another meeting. I can't imagine that there is an impetus amongst committee members to change their minds and reject the idea of APD devolution.

I wonder too how the WG would justify reducing/axing APD if, as it and its airport company seem to believe, the result would be more flights from CWL, given the emphasis on climate change brought into the spotlight again this week with the current road policy.

 

[Jerry]

I wonder then why they feel the need to have another meeting. I can't imagine that there is an impetus amongst committee members to change their minds and reject the idea of APD devolution.

I wonder too how the WG would justify reducing/axing APD if, as it and its airport company seem to believe, the result would be more flights from CWL, given the emphasis on climate change brought into the spotlight again this week with the current road policy.

UK government was supposed to be looking at changing APD domestically at least so maybe the committee wants to see how that would impact Wales and whether UK government might change it's stance?
It would be interesting to see what they'd do if it was devolved.

 

[Jerry]

I wonder then why they feel the need to have another meeting. I can't imagine that there is an impetus amongst committee members to change their minds and reject the idea of APD devolution.

I wonder too how the WG would justify reducing/axing APD if, as it and its airport company seem to believe, the result would be more flights from CWL, given the emphasis on climate change brought into the spotlight again this week with the current road policy.

Just to add I notice there's no one officially attending from the Welsh government or the airport itself. Roger Lewis of course is the former chairman.

 

[Jerry]

Hopefully this will be good news for the travel industry and the airport and that these destinations will stay green!

Balearics, Malta and some Caribbean islands added to green list

But caution remains as most additions also appear on green ‘watch list’

travelweekly.co.uk

 

[Jerry]

Welsh Affairs Committee will be holding a one off session looking at the future of Air Passenger Duty tomorrow at 14.30. Roger Lewis and Simon Hart will be giving evidence.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1407795185497554948

Watching the playback of this at the moment and it's very interesting to hear Roger Lewis talk especially concerning overall strategy for the airport in trying to get subsidy free in working with industry expand the non passenger side of the business. He didn't mention specifics as he said stuff was ongoing he described it as 'hot' but he mention how it was in relation to BAMC, aviation fuel and the St Athan site. Another thing that has been mentioned so far is about ownership especially the for many controversial Welsh government ownership and how he prefers a public-private ownership model and he has mentioned MAG, Liverpool, Newcastle and Birmingham in that regard but also he stated that 10 airports in the UK are publicly owned with Luton being the biggest and that public ownership is the norm around the world, in the USA for instance only 3 airports are privately owned.

 

[Jerry]

Roger Lewis has proposed that APD for airports below 2 million passengers be abolished to help smaller regional airports and UK connectivity. Maybe a change of tact? Can't get it devolved to Wales so get it scrapped for small airports UK wide and by default Wales?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Roger Lewis has proposed that APD for airports below 2 million passengers be abolished to help smaller regional airports and UK connectivity. Maybe a change of tact? Can't get it devolved to Wales so get it scrapped for small airports UK wide and by default Wales?

I wonder how that would have worked with an airport such as Southampton:

2016 1.947 mppa
2017 2.069 mppa
2018 1.991 mppa

 

[Jerry]

I wonder how that would have worked with an airport such as Southampton:

2016 1.947 mppa
2017 2.069 mppa
2018 1.991 mppa

I suppose that's part of the fine print that would have to be ironed out. It could instead be part of a band system so even though APD is charged it's lower than what it is now.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I suppose that's part of the fine print that would have to be ironed out. It could instead be part of a band system so even though APD is charged it's lower than what it is now.

There would have to be some sort of safety net or airlines and airports would not know where they stood when approaching 2 mppa after previously being given APD dispensation. Perhaps keeping the dispensation for, say, three years after reaching 2 mppa might be one way, although there could still be problems if an airport was on the border of that passenger level and was below it one year, above it the next and below it the year after that, as SOU was. Even that would not be impossible to resolve.

Applying APD rates according to size of airport has been suggested before. It was looked at by Westminster as one option several years ago but it was thought then that EU state aid rules probably excluded the idea.