Cardiff Airport - General Thread

[Jerry]

There doesn't seem to be anybody in the Welsh Government at the moment with any interest in the airport, and placing the transport portfolio in with the Climate Change department was a big mistake.

It was definitely Carwyn Jones pet project. I'm sure the WG will back the airport but may not want to appear to close to it in case it effects their Green credentials! It'll be interesting to see if the £1 million a year resumes to Qatar Airways for the flight to return considering its a long haul flight and transport is under climate change.
Another thing I wonder is if with the banning of all new road construction and the suspending of the new business park whether any hope CWL did have for a significant cargo operation has now been scuttled by the WG and VOG Council.

I'm surprised they are only forecasting 1m passengers. I would've thought the seat offering for 2022 would be well in excess of 1m.

Make a low prediction so it looks good when they actually do better next year?

 

[Jerry]

During Politics Wales this morning which had a climate change and COP26 theme, the Deputy Climate Change Minister Lee Waters was asked about Cardiff Airport and asked if it was a contradiction that the Welsh government owned the airport considering it's climate change agenda and with COP26 the route from Cardiff to Scotland was mentioned and whether domestic flying should be available, as a reply the Minister said people would just go to Bristol and Manchester and choose too fly. It does annoy me a bit when people bring up flying domestically without questioning why people choose it over the train especially price wise and you don't have all day to travel. The Minister also did mention about long haul flying being very environmentally damaging which makes me wonder if this government would refuse to renew the marketing deal with Qatar Airways and if that would effect Cardiff's chances of seeing Qatar Airways return.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The deputy minister came up with the obvious explanation when it comes to the dichotomy between the WG owning and wanting a growing and prosperous airport and its environmental responsibilities. If CWL is prevented from growing passengers will simply go elsewhere. It's an argument used by Bristol Airport to justify its application to be allowed to handle an extra two million passengers a year.

The airport CEO told the committee that the airport is in regular dialogue with Qatar Airways and he expects them to return to CWL, although he said it might be a 'slow burn'. Perhaps that means it won't be next year.

 

[Jerry]

The deputy minister came up with the obvious explanation when it comes to the dichotomy between the WG owning and wanting a growing and prosperous airport and its environmental responsibilities. If CWL is prevented from growing passengers will simply go elsewhere. It's an argument used by Bristol Airport to justify its application to be allowed to handle an extra two million passengers a year.

That's is the reality, if the WG closed the airport it wouldn't stop people from flying they'd just go elsewhere taking money out of the welsh economy with them.

The airport CEO told the committee that the airport is in regular dialogue with Qatar Airways and he expects them to return to CWL, although he said it might be a 'slow burn'. Perhaps that means it won't be next year.

Didn't someone here say that the airport thinks 2023 is more likely?

 

[mathers_wales_uk]

2023 is the aim at the moment subject to change as ever.

 

[geoff]

With the CWL-VLY route under review, I wonder if the CO2 emissions of a diesel train doing a 3 to four hour journey between Cardiff and Holyhead, are more than a J41 doing a 50 minute trip, perhaps a member with more knowledge would know the answer.

 

[Foxlimayankee]

With the CWL-VLY route under review, I wonder if the CO2 emissions of a diesel train doing a 3 to four hour journey between Cardiff and Holyhead, are more than a J41 doing a 50 minute trip, perhaps a member with more knowledge would know the answer.

I think the point is more that you can fit 200+ people into a train whereas the VLY route is capped at 19. Send the J41 on 10 round trips and compare the emissions to a train then.

 

[geoff]

But the point I was trying to make is that if the train did the same 10 round trips, what would be the emissions then.

 

[Tinkerman]

I think you’re missing the point there Geoff … In terms of CO2e per passenger, the train will always beat the plane.

In this day and age, I can’t find any reason (at all) for a CWL-VLY service, and that’s before the carbon agenda comes into the equation.

 

[A400]

But the point I was trying to make is that if the train did the same 10 round trips, what would be the emissions then.

More than the train.

If around 200 people wanted to get from Cardiff to Anglesey. The train can easily carry all the them in one go.

Eastern airways Jetstream 41 has a total of 29 seats. If they had to get all 200 to Anglesey by plane it would be at least a few trips there and back.

 

[geoff]

Surely if the plane or the train are only carrying a couple of people each, the emissions from the plane and the train for each journey would be the same. I wasn't really interested in the numbers carried, I was trying to find out the amount of CO2 emissions for one journey, whether full or empty.

 

[Tinkerman]

A train journey from Cardiff to Holyhead has a Carbon Footprint of approximately 10kg CO2e per passenger, whereas the same person using the CWL-VLY service would generate approximately 40kg CO2e.

To top that off, the train is operating a whole route so therefore utilises a greater deal of passengers on the intermediate stops, as opposed to CWL-VLY being merely point to point.

When calculated as a whole entity, the carbon production from someone flying CWL-VLY is far greater than someone taking the train, hence with my carbon critical hat on I can’t see the Welsh Transport Ministry allowing this to continue (Even moreso when you consider the fact that Transport sits within the Climate Ministry).

 

[geoff]

Thanks for the info Tinkerman, I can't see it being maintained either, I was just thinking about the people in Holyhead who might lose their jobs.

 

[KARFA]

I fyou

A train journey from Cardiff to Holyhead has a Carbon Footprint of approximately 10kg CO2e per passenger, whereas the same person using the CWL-VLY service would generate approximately 40kg CO2e.

To top that off, the train is operating a whole route so therefore utilises a greater deal of passengers on the intermediate stops, as opposed to CWL-VLY being merely point to point.

When calculated as a whole entity, the carbon production from someone flying CWL-VLY is far greater than someone taking the train, hence with my carbon critical hat on I can’t see the Welsh Transport Ministry allowing this to continue (Even moreso when you consider the fact that Transport sits within the Climate Ministry).

but if you remove the flight everyone isn't going to just move to the train instead, so the whole comparison is flawed.

 

[fly4gigs]

Sure and the train actually takes you to the centre of places, not an awkwardly placed airbase with poor public transport connections.

 

[KARFA]

Sure and the train actually takes you to the centre of places, not an awkwardly placed airbase with poor public transport connections.

Why do you think at the moment some people choose the plane over the train?

 

[bluebols]

Uncertainty hangs over the future of Cardiff Airport | UK Aviation News

ukaviation.news

 

[bluebols]

This is not going to help attract any future business or airlines. The Welsh Government have shown their hand here, even if they try and offload the airport, it will be not be attractive to any possible purchasers as the policy is to hammer aviation in Wales.

 

[Nuffsaid]

How can anybody in the Senedd now expect the Welsh economy to grow? Airports are drivers of economic growth. It’s no wonder investment does not get beyond the Severn bridge from England.

 

[Jerry]

Interesting comment from Lee Waters. Even with a more green agenda I'm not sure any Welsh government would let the airport close down but they just might be more financially prudent and not willing to provide essentially route development money. Where that leaves Qatar Airways is anyone's guess but it's quite possible that the airport itself might have to provide any funds for any marketing deal.
The comment does give the anti Cardiff Airport and anti Welsh government owing Cardiff Airport brigades fuel though. I'd also be wary of anything politicians say around this COP26 because there all trying to score political points against each other while actually doing very little.