Doncaster Sheffield - General Thread

[pug]

The FARRRS project has been awarded yet more public money in the form of £2million from the LEP. I can imagine meetings between the LEP, councillors and Peel Airports in which Peel are asking for more public grants 'or it wont go ahead'...

It seems LPL is also to see some reductions later in the year. Its not looking good for Peel Airports at the moment.

[ Post made via Android ]

 

[Jordan-34092]

It's a shame really but the airport is always going to struggle a bit, what with the likes of LBA and EMA so close if it hadn't been for thomson and now wizzair the airport would have shut a while ago.

[ Post made via Android ]

 

[Aviador]

It's a shame really but the airport is always going to struggle a bit, what with the likes of LBA and EMA so close if it hadn't been for thomson and now wizzair the airport would have shut a while ago.

[ Post made via Android ]

That's the trouble though. There's really no guarantee that Thomson's or Wizz will stay. I guess you could say that about Jet2 and Ryanair at LBA but the airport up the road is always going to be more attractive with it's core catchment right on it's doorstep.

 

[Jordan-34092]

True, even if they Jet2 and ryanair did leave LBA and new airlines came into the yorkshire area, 90% of time they will choose LBA over DSA because of its location, they only really choose DSA as an alternate.

[ Post made via Android ]

 

[Aviador]

I agree but it must be extremely frustrating for people in the Doncaster catchment area who do want to use the airport but can't because so few operators use the airport.

 

[Jordan-34092]

More than likely it will be.

[ Post made via Android ]

 

[pug]

But people in Doncasters catchment seem to still happily use flights from the likes of EMA, LBA and MAN. People and airlines vote with their feet.

I tend to think TOM and Wizz are happy at DSA, but then when they start asking for better deals (like eastjet at LPL) we may well see more commitment at those other airports.

[ Post made via Android ]

 

[airforced]

Thinking back to when the airport was about to open it was good news all round when Easyjet said they were going to operate from there followed quickly on by Thomson. The future seemed very bright indeed. A new terminal, car parking at a reasonable price close to the terminal and plenty of room once you got inside - what could go wrong?

I don't know what has gone wrong but things certainly have taken a nosedive since those early very promising days which is a great shame considering the many millions of pounds that have been spent on infrastructure in and around DSA. What has happened with Easy? They can't have been suited with something. Talk of Thomson moving now might just be the final nail in the coffin.

Is the problem Peel? They do seem to have a knack of buggering up airports don't they? Discuss.

 

[pug]

Is the problem Peel? They do seem to have a knack of buggering up airports don't they? Discuss

80% of their growth projections upon opening were based on attracting passengers away from other airports. I would have thought that was a huge risk to take, and clearly hasnt paid off as intended.

Even if the passengers are there, the airlines at EMA and LBA, those that DSA needs to attract, havent been enticed. Easyjet have operated from the airport twice, firstly to Geneva where (I seem to remember) load factors didnt exceed 60% (they need at least 70% to make a profit). When they returned, despite some pretty good LF's on some of their less frequent routes, the AMS route was stuck at around 50% LF or less, which dragged the average load factor across the entire DSA operation to below 70%. Put simply the passengers didnt come out to support it. Some could blame the poor AMS timings for the lack of support, but it also acted as an important positioning flight, and surely if easyjet believed they could make the operation work they would have done so, bearing in mind at the time they did not operate from any airport east of the Pennines.

I seem to remember FR were hotly tipped to open a base at DSA, but they instead opened one at EMA and later LBA too, which means DSA will always play second fiddle. KLM were offered a good deal to move away from HUY, and thus far havent, agreeing long term deals with HUY twice since DSA opened. WW were in discussions regarding a base at DSA not so long ago, but chose BHD instead due to the proximity of Doncaster to EMA. BE have dropped their regular BHD flights this year. The only airlines that seem committed to DSA at the moment are TOM (who have negligable offerings from LBA and none from HUY) and Wizz.

Is the problem Peel? I wouldn't have thought so as at the time of opening, Peel were known for offering exceptional deals to the two main low-cost airlines at LPL. Could it be Vantage buying the majority stake in Peel Airports, and trying to plug the holes in the money sieve? Possibly, but then it was said that WW were offered a 'hard to refuse' deal by them to open up a base at DSA.

 

[airforced]

Is the problem Peel? They do seem to have a knack of buggering up airports don't they? Discuss

Is the problem Peel? I wouldn't have thought so as at the time of opening, Peel were known for offering exceptional deals to the two main low-cost airlines at LPL. Could it be Vantage buying the majority stake in Peel Airports, and trying to plug the holes in the money sieve? Possibly, but then it was said that WW were offered a 'hard to refuse' deal by them to open up a base at DSA.

I suppose the question I should have asked was "Is the problem Peel or Doncaster?" Something is wrong somewhere when you have a brand new terminal with a good long runway that can handle anything anyone can throw at it yet it is turning out to be a total flop. Easy are pretty adept at making things work and so are Ryan for that matter but neither of them have stuck around for too long. Shedloads of money has been spent on access, which I agree wasn't perfect at the start, but I don't think there is much of a problem now. So it ought to work but clearly doesn't.

My questioning of Peel really stems from their unsuccessful, in terms of airport operations at least, goes at making Sheffield City and DTV viable operations. There is a fairly substantial groundswell of opinion that says both failed (I know DTV is still alive - but only just) because Peel were in it for the land and not as a long term airport operator. I'm not totally convinced of that argument but I can see where the proponents of it are coming from.

Whichever way you look at it DSA should have been able to pull traffic from LBA and HUY but they have failed to do so. I don't know why. I would fly from there rather than LBA given the opportunity as both DSA and DTV are more convenient for me but as things stand LBA is going to continue to get my custom.

 

[pug]

My questioning of Peel really stems from their unsuccessful, in terms of airport operations at least, goes at making Sheffield City and DTV viable operations

Sheffield City Airport never had a future under Peel, I'm not sure how you think otherwise? MME was an attempt by them at applying the low-cost model used at LPL by attracting Bmibaby. All that happened is that MME lost most of its charter network it had taken years to build up, only for bmibaby to then pull out due to lack of patronage. It could be said they had the same ethos when they built DSA (boosted by considerable EU Grants). It hasnt worked, the DSA market is too small when you take into account the nearby airports, the only loser it seems being HUY, which could have easily offered what DSA is currently offering (and more with KLM and Eastern) had DSA not gone ahead. DSA has simply brought nothing new to the region, and has instead stagnated dragging HUY with it in terms of passenger traffic.

You mention the long-runway. That became a soundbite during the early days of the airport. In reality who will need to make use of the runway (exactly the same length as EMA, with I think a slightly shorter TODA/LDA) with the exception of the odd ad-hoc freight movement?

Whichever way you look at it DSA should have been able to pull traffic from LBA and HUY but they have failed to do so.

I dont see why it should have? TOM scaled back at LBA and HUY, so I suppose in that sense it did. HUY found replacements quite easily prior to the recession, and actually had one of its busiest ever years in 2006! LBA has continued to grow, EMA has returned to growth, DSA will likely see more reductions in passenger numbers this summer.

 

[airforced]

From reading your post Pug I think you may be agreeing with me in a round about way in that we are both saying that Peel are not very good at running airports.

Problem solved. DSA will eventually go the way of Sheffield City and DTV and the bindweed will once again take over and we will be able to call it Finningley again! 😆

 

[Jordan-34092]

Planning application in for Robin Hood Airport link road

DONCASTER’S long awaited Robin Hood Airport link road has taken a significant step closer - with a planning application submitted for the scheme.

Doncaster Council has confirmed the document has now been lodged with the planning authorities, although a date for it to be heard by councillors has not yet been set.

The road is known as the Finningley and Rossington Regeneration Route Scheme, or FARRRS, and will run between junction three of the M18 and Parrots Corner on the A638. From Parrots Corner, drivers will take local roads to the airport.

It will also link Rossington to the motorway and provide access for the planned inland port, near the former pit town.

Experts also believe it will reduce journey times into the borough along Bawtry Road, which is currently one of the main bottlenecks for traffic in the borough.

The submission of a planning application comes after the Free Press last week reported that regeneration bosses from the Sheffield City Region Local Enterprise Partnership pledged a further £2 million towards the £18 million project from its Growing Places fund.

Source

 

[pug]

It has been posted elsewhere that the business case for FARRRS has changed due to the route having gone from; direct to airport dual, down to having overtaking lanes, down to single carriageway terminating at Parrotts Corner with resulting bottkleneck, from where the existing roads will be used for around 2 miles. It is said that the travel time to the airport will not be much different, therefore the costs cannot be justified in that sense. It is therefore being built to increase access to employment sites for developers and workers.

A link below to the information leaflet.

http://www.doncaster.gov.uk/Images/FARR ... -83357.pdf

 

[White Heather]

I have to say that this is an interesting read. The thing is that what has happened to DSA is exactly what was predicted by the then LBA director, and others, and formed part of the objections to the airport at the public enquiry. It was, as I recall, stated that the only way DSA could succeed was if it could entice passengers away from MAN, EMA, LBA and HUY, but that it could be doomed to fail because of its relatively remote location, which is too far away from its major catchment area - Sheffield. As posted earlier by Muddycoffee, Sheffield folk can reach EMA quicker, especially those living to the South of the City. Those living to the West can easily get across to MAN, and those to the North can get to LBA reasonably quickly too.

Had Tui not take a policy decision to try their luck at 'minor' airports such as Bournemouth, Coventry and the new DSA, I suspect Donny would already have failed completely. After a bright start, it has been downhill steadily since and the fact that Thomson are now showing signs of heading back up the A1 to LBA (still in a minor way, but nevetheless a complete change in policy with routes to Palma, Corfu, Dalaman, Sharm el Sheikh, Enfidha and Paphos), the situation appears to be rather bleak.

What has happened though is what the directors of the surrounding airports said would happen. So can DSA succeed in the longer term? Personally I think it is battling too many competitors, all within reasonable travelling time of Doncaster and Sheffield. MAN is growing again, EMA appears to be pulling out of a dodgy period and LBA is poised to grow rapidly after its terminal development. DSA is too reliant on charter work - always a volatile market and the first to suffer from consolidation when the times get tough - which is what has happened to DSA over the last 2 years or so, with their based TOM fleet shrinking year by year. With the exception of Wizz, every other scheduled service has failed . That, I fear, is DSA's real Achilles heel. Airports in this country rarely succeed if they can't hold down a reasonable number of scheduled services.

 

[Carnage]

It has been posted elsewhere that the business case for FARRRS has changed due to the route having gone from; direct to airport dual, down to having overtaking lanes, down to single carriageway terminating at Parrotts Corner with resulting bottkleneck, from where the existing roads will be used for around 2 miles. It is said that the travel time to the airport will not be much different, therefore the costs cannot be justified in that sense. It is therefore being built to increase access to employment sites for developers and workers.

A link below to the information leaflet.

http://www.doncaster.gov.uk/Images/FARR ... -83357.pdf

You clearly know nothing of the local area. The link road WILL reduce journey times from the M18. the current route takes you through Lakeside from junction 3 which is an absolute bottleneck. The new plans are for dual carriage way initially reducing to single carriage way. From the ending junction, current roads are to be used, however this would add maybe two minutes on to the journey time if it had not been dual carraige way all the way to the terminal.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

According to a poster on 😛lums: new routes and cargo development at DSA are to be announced in a few weeks.

It seems the 'information' had been picked up on other web site forums. There seems to be some scepticism about such developments.

Probably something like the 'send reinforcements we are going to advance' morphing to 'send three and fourpence we are going to a dance' by the time the tale is passed down the line.

 

[pug]

Who are you trying to fool 'carnage'? There may be some improvement in travel time, but the shareholders clearly dont see any massive improvement to business.

By the way, I know the area well.

Still waiting for this route news..

 

[Aviador]

Two of the Vulcan Bomber engines were destroyed in the incident the other week. According to the YEP it was caused by human error after silica gel bags had been left in one of the aircraft engines.

Will it be possible to get the aircraft flying again, I mean do we have spare Vulcan Bomber engines lying around?

 

[ryan]

Will it be possible to get the aircraft flying again, I mean do we have spare Vulcan Bomber engines lying around?

I believe there are a number of spare engines which were included when the aircraft was obtained from the RAF.