Doncaster Sheffield - General Thread

[White Heather]

It is great that the Vulcan can be repaired and I understand it will be back at displays mid summer. I would imagine whoever left the silica gel in the engine has done his last days work on the Vulcan though.

 

[Aviador]

It is great that the Vulcan can be repaired and I understand it will be back at displays mid summer. I would imagine whoever left the silica gel in the engine has done his last days work on the Vulcan though.

Yes I suspect you're right Heather. I guess it could have been fatal had the aircraft managed to get airborne prior to the engine exploding, a harrowing thought and thankfully it didn't happen. Still, it will be good to see this beast mended and back in the air as soon as possible. I keep promising myself I'll pay a visit to Doncaster to see her.

 

[stars&sids]

Pug, I'm wondering how often you travel from M18 J3 to the airport?
White Rose Way to Lakeside, fine, but then negotiating Lakeside, Asda traffic & Dome traffic is never a quick job on 30 mph roads full of traffic light junctions & roundabouts. From there, it's along Bawtry Road, 40mph, single carriagway with pelican crossings, traffic light junctions & junctions to residential streets. That part of the journey , from M18 to Parrots corner, on my regular run is usually 20 - 25 mins.
Farrs, with it's initial 2 mile Duall carriageway at 70 mph, then 1 roundabout then another 1/12 miles of single carriagway at 50mph is going to save, in my opinion, at least 10 mins.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

 

[pug]

No doubting it will save ten minutes. Coming from the north I usually use the A614 where I believe there will be little time saving. Clearly from the south travel times will be improved. The question is will this result in any significant new airline business? My response was to Carnage, who in turn was responding to my post regarding the business case for the scheme having been changed, which is confirmed in the document released by DMBC last week.

From Sheffield, EMA is just as easy to access, MAN a bit less so but it is still likely to trump DSA on the sheer number of flights and the flexibility and cost saving this can provide.

I may be far wrong, but I dont think there are airlines waiting in the wings for FARRRS to open. Just like I didnt think there was a freight operator waiting for the nightime noise restrictions to be lifted.

 

[Carnage]

I'd be more worried of DSA losing any more airlines than gaining new ones. These new Thomson flights from LBA add more fuel to the rumor that their DSA flights will be ditched.

I'd be very surprised if DSA gained any new airlines over the next few years. In fact I would be surprised if they ever did in the future.

 

[pug]

Not DSA, but I believe relevent.

http://hhgrahamjones.blogspot.co.uk/201 ... e.html?m=1

I need say no more.

 

[lysander]

I am new on here but have taken an interest in my 'local'airport since...whenever. I was looking through some consultants reports I acquired whilst researching a book detailing the 'saga' of aviation in Sheffield and South Yorkshire. I think the admission made at the Public Enquiry that "There was no pressing aviation need [for DSA] but that development would create several thousand jobs"...sums it all up.

 

[pug]

I think often Lysander, the South Yorkshire region has been over-egged by many as being some vastly under served megatropolis. The truth is quite the opposite.

The current blame on DSA stalling (note I dont say failing) is on uncompetitive pricing by the current operators and lack of link road. The lack of cargo flights was originally blamed on the night time noise restrictions, which have since been lifted.

Firstly, the link road. Whilst it may cut ten minutes off the journey time from Sheffield, the sheer choice offered by the likes of MAN and EMA (themselves in much bigger markets) means that Sheffield passengers will continue to be swayed by price and felxibility over conveniance. How the link road will make a slight bit of difference in that respect is beyond me, unless easyjet come in and give it a go again. In order for the airlines to cut their prices, there would need to be a significant increase in both the number of flights, and the number of operators using the airport. Where are they coming from? More importantly, where are all the passengers coming from? There were 9.4million O&D's in the entire Yorkshire and Humberside region during 2010, the majority within West Yorkshire. With that in mind, and considering the Midlands and North West, not to mention West Yorkshire being much larger economies, where would you as an airline choose to setup?

I may be guilty of a bias towards HUY. However it has always been my understanding that HUY served a relatively small niche market, and that people were prepared to pay a premium to use the airport. It was never going to be a low-cost hub. Now there are two airports, both vying for that very same passenger (as is evident by Thomson and their prices at DSA), neither airport has the right market, nor financial clout to be able to compete with the major players.

There may well be some good news for DSA before too long (possibly), if there is I would genuinely be happy. If I ever believed that the airport had the potential to reach its goals set out in its masterplan then I would be behind it 100%, not only as a paying customer as I have been a number of times since 2005.

I'm often accused by some of looking hard to find the negatives, thus far I have not had to look too hard if that is what people want to believe.

 

[lysander]

Peel actually bought the whole of the Finningley site for £11 million ( source FoIA request to MoD)...the actual cost of the project ( uncertain whether this is just the airport or the whole site and its infrastructure) is stated by the Lend-Lease Corporation ...who managed the whole project to have been £81 million. Against this the ERDF made an initial grant of £10,034,184 and , somewhat later, an additional £4,707,001 for infrastructure, DMBC added a futher £2.9 million as well as reducing business rate by £39,000. There may well have been more grants( David Kirkhope MEP claimed that the project had received more European money than any other comparable airfield development)

All of this was to support the airport and the promised 000's of new jobs it would create, The FARRRs road scheme will not just benefit the airport but, more importantly, its Business Park, Housing and other associated developments ( including a nursery costing £1.2 millio) but also the 'deprived' and isolated ex mining community of Rossington with its planned inland freight terminal.

Will the new owners, Vantage, be prepared to invest any more...I don't know but leaving a stretch of unimproved 'country lane' seems short-sighted. Perhaps Vantage with their expertise in managing and servicing airports around the world...including several in Canada with far less traffic than DSA...may be more enlightened...Who knows?

 

[muddycoffee]

...Firstly, the link road. Whilst it may cut ten minutes off the journey time from Sheffield, the sheer choice offered by the likes of MAN and EMA (themselves in much bigger markets) means that Sheffield passengers will continue to be swayed by price and felxibility over conveniance..

I have personally recently lived through my own period of austerity for 3 years, due to a career change and having to start again at the bottom of a new ladder. At last I'm able to contemplate foreign holidays and city breaks again like I used to do.
I have been a notional "supporter" of DSA from the start, but I have never flown from the airport as in the past my partner and I have never wanted to go to a destination served by the airport, or it has been more expensive than an alternative airport.
However, still keen on geting good value for money I spent a while researching the differences between the costs of our cheap holiday to Lanzarote and found that DSA was the cheapest when comparing to MAN, LBA, LJL, EMA and others. We travel light and never usually take any hold luggage but I also noticed that DSA was the cheapest in this respect too.

So there you are, all being well I am at last going to use the airport as a passenger and I found the deal from there the best value of all local airports. This, as far as I am concerned is a very good situation, and long may it continue.
😆

 

[Aviador]

Reading comments about DSA trying to expand reminds me of reading the sort of comments people used to write about Leeds Bradford airport back in the 80's and 90's. Leeds Bradford Airport has had a hard struggle over the years to get where it is today and it seems Doncaster Sheffield airport is having the same struggle today. It is difficult to see how things can change while the economic climate is still poor. The aviation industry is completely different nowadays compared with when LBA was developing. LBA was expanding during relatively good times and the constraints were local restrictions such as night time flying availability, not the lack of passengers willing to use the airport.

As I frequently say about airports, market forces will ultimately decide whether DSA expands further.
There are certainly enough air passengers originating from the South Yorkshire region currently flying from other airports. To allow Doncaster airport to develop the airport needs to go back to basics. They need to move away from using statements such as "longest runway in the country" and start concentrating on building a firm passenger base that use the airport time and time again. This is more likely to provide a base platform to put to airlines that might be looking to expand or base at the airport.

 

[pug]

So there you are, all being well I am at last going to use the airport as a passenger and I found the deal from there the best value of all local airports. This, as far as I am concerned is a very good situation, and long may it continue.

I have used the airport a few times since it opened, I supported easyjet when they were flying from DSA and got a reasonable deal to do so. No matter what I say about the place it will always be my first choice after HUY due to the travel time compared to EMA and LBA. My gripe is that easyjet tested the market, and throughout the summer season they saw average load factors of below 70% for their overall operation. That is not good. Yes, the AMS flights were poorly timed, however easyjet will know their passengers, and subsequently they will know where they can fly to to get good loads and yields. They havent appeared to show any interest in developing an operation at DSA despite having no base at any airports on the M1/A1 corridor for miles around. The 'easyjet arent interested in UK growth' argument is flawed due to their recent SEN base opening, and that is a ten year deal..

Therefore, either easyjet do not see a market at DSA, or DSA management are not prepared to offer a reasonable deal to attract them. Whilst not directly DSA related, it is interesting to note that LPL is easyjets worst performing airport after Madrid.. It wont be long before there are more significant cutbacks there I suspect.

 

[lysander]

I am pleased muddycoffee found DSA cheaper. My own son is flying to Palma from LBA simply because the cost for 2 adults and 3 children is much cheaper by Ryanair than by Thomson. His friend, with a similar sized family, who lives just 15 minutes from DSA is actually driving up to Glasgow to save money ( including the cost of the drive)on the equivalent from his very, very local airport.

I suppose it's all down to the individual case but cost ( and usually convenience) will, I suggest, always win!

 

[Seasider]

Driving up to GLA seems extreme, it must put at least 5 hours, each way, on the journey time.

 

[lysander]

Absolutely, but it is, apparently, worth the trouble for the savings he will make. It would seem that Glasgow schools go back earlier than they do in Doncaster!

 

[Aviador]

Driving up to GLA seems extreme, it must put at least 5 hours, each way, on the journey time.

It took four hours for me to get back to West Yorkshire from Glasgow on Friday. You'd have to be a die hard to travel so far to go on holiday to the Mediterranean in my view. It's not a bad drive but I think most people will give it a wide berth on the majority of occasions. Imagine a three or four hour flight from the Med followed by a four or five hour drive home?

 

[lysander]

I absolutely agree with you... I would need a £1.00 flight to be travelling, with young children that far... but, then again, we are, as they say, all very different. 😆

 

[Seasider]

Lysander
Can you find out what he thought of the journey to/from GLA, when he comes back?

 

[lysander]

He did something similar last year so I can only assume he has a sadistic streak! 😆

 

[muddycoffee]

The trouble with people driving or doing things for hours, to avaid paying for something slightly more expensive, is that most of the time they are failing to take any account of the value they should be giving to their own time.

If you are working, then most probably you are earning over the minimum wage of £6.08 per hour. If you can afford to take flights abroad, then you are likely to be earning twice this figure!. If you have driven to glasgow and back, then at minimum wage x 10 hours you are talking about having sacrificed £60 of your own value. On top of that is the fuel and other expenses for such a journey.
If you have any passengers in the car of working age, then you must also add their hours at minimum wage too.

Only when you start adding these things up can you understand the trouble you are putting yourself to, in my opinion.
I know that If I decided to take my girlfriend up to Glasgow for a flight, we would be tired and annoyed by the time it was boarding time, especially in the summmer. After such a drive I would be wanting a wash and a clean shirt on even if I had driven a new car with the best climate control. I speak as a man who has driven to Glasgow dozens of time to do a work job, when I used to be a field engineer.