Manchester: General Airport Discussions & Updates

[User001]

Your telling me Jerry. I know some routes have seasonal reductions, but, the trajectory is still very much towards growth.

If this is what being hit hard looks like, then roll on any good times!

 

[Jerry]

Your telling me Jerry. I know some routes have seasonal reductions, but, the trajectory is still very much towards growth.

If this is what being hit hard looks like, then roll on any good times!

MAN as an airport is doing very well and can only get stronger. Just wonder if MAN would consider a 3rd runway in the future?

 

[User001]

I don't see a need for a 3rd runway in my lifetime, as the 2 are adiquate for 50million pax.

It's terminal space and stands that need to be increased, and as we know, it's all in hand.

 

[Dobbo]

I suppose the only thing that may wish to consider is placing any new infrastructure so as to not get in the way of any future airfield developments within our outside of the current footprint.

as an aside, what could they do to increase the hourly movement of aircraft?

 

[ethanegcc]

http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjourn...exit-is-changing-u-stravel-to-london-and.html

Seems the American journalists still don't get how the UK works.

'United have pulled its Washington-Manchester route' Erm, no they haven't. It's gone seasonal, but not pulled.

In talking about a new route:

'Even hard hit Manchester claimed a post Brexit victory'.

Hard hit? No routes cut, new routes to San Fransisco and Houston, extra fligts to Boston, New York and Orlando, extra capacity to New York.

Yep, suffering all the damaging cuts there!

Wow. The US media definitely know how to use hyperbole. It's obviously not helping UA's MAN-IAD route if media outlets continue to report it as 'pulled', when realistically it simply has a shorter season. 'Hard hit Manchester'. Laughable. The US are persuading themselves that Brexit is bad for Britain, as we have seen, yes British airports have cut back operations to the US but all of these cutbacks have been made by UA/AA/DL. Don't see VS or TCX making any cutbacks, in fact, quite the opposite.

 

[David_itl]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...rn-tourists-flock-to-manchester-because-it-i/

Doubling of tourists fron Saudi Arabia and Kuwait in 5 years. 9000 from Kuwait so not quite ready for a non-stop service on KU.

 

[User001]

But when you look at 9000 O&D along with connections, enough for a 3 weekly flight at least (KU seems to look into lower frequency ops than their MEB3 neighbours).

Then, if a member of the Royal family ends up in Manchester, you are definately in business (remember their B747 sent in a few times to pick the son up from University!).

 

[David_itl]

Often wondered what would be the criteria to starting a longish haul route. I was thinking along the lines of 10,000 O+D passengers to start a bit of analysis to 15,000 O+D passengers getting down to the planning - it's just the connections available that is the unknown factor and if they had better timings to attract numbers.

 

[Dobbo]

Hi David - does the file below answer your question?!

(It's 14,701 in case it cannot be accessed)

 

[Dobbo]

As an aside, I was thinking about benchmarking a number of aspects of MAN against other european airports in similar situations if people think it would lead to an intersting discussion?

For example, DUS, is in a similar position to MAN and a fair comparator. Another slightly different one would be Stockholm.

What do you think, and what do you think would be worth comparing?

 

[Dobbo]

Dusseldorf (DUS)

Bio:
DUS has a number of similarities to MAN, in the sense that it serves a dispersed conurbation, is the third largest German airport and its flag carrier ceased long haul operations for economic reasons. There are a number of interesting issues that MAN may have their eye on at DUS...

Pax Figures (2015):
22,476,685 (2.9% increase)

Runways:
2x parallel runways. 3,000m and 2,700m.

Future plans:
The terminal buildings are reasonably modern, and I cannot find any plans in the public domain to expand. There are plans to extend the second runway to 3,000m but face local opposition. Continuing the similarities to MAN, they also are in the process of developing an airport city.

Notable routes/operations:

Air Berlin - have a major hub operation at DUS which is a step along from TCX's operation at MAN which is largely split between the short haul market and the long haul offering with a Flybe feed. This may be something TCX can seek to achieve in time.

Newark (LH) - flown in a "W" pattern from MUC (MUC-EWR-DUS-EWR-MUC) similar to VS operation, this is perhaps something for BA to look at at MAN.

Tokyo (ANA) - what MAN would give for a daily route to Tokyo... It is a similar flight time so aircraft frame use would be near identical, but it cannot be too long before MAN is looked at by ANA or JAL.

Moscow (Aeroflot) - the missing european capital. Despite the current tensions, a frequent service to LHR and LGW exists.

AliItalia - offer services to Rome and Milan. They would probably struggle against Ryanair, Easyjet, Jet2 and Flybe. Together with Iberia this is a missing link in the "full service" european network.

Commentary:

DUS and MAN are similar airports with broadly similar route networks. DUS comes on top with its network into the old eastern bloc on those nation's flag carriers, and it also has the blue ribbond daily route to Tokyo. MAN has a significantly larger network to North America and the Middle East, with greater frequencies that continue to increase. Both have a good service from SQ and CX, although MAN is more developed in these markets which is something I expect will continue.

DUS have Bangkok, India and Shanghai on its wish list. All of which are familiar routes to those of us on this forum.

 

[ethanegcc]

Yes, I think the major worldwide lead DUS has is ANA. Oh how I long for a route to Tokyo! We definitely come out on top when you look at SQ and CX though, a more established market. The only major difference otherwise is that CA operate their PEK service whereas ours is HU - not sure of the frequency though.

You would think Aeroflot would launch a MAN-SVO service - a wealth of onward connections also.
Great comparison! I have long said that DUS and MAN are exactly the same position with one major separation - ANA!

 

[User001]

It's worth pointing out DUS now has a 4 weekly CX A359 flight and 3 weekly SQ flight (it needs to be remembered that while MAN is 5 weekly B777 shared with IAH, the DUS flight is purely SIN-DUS-SIN so all the capacity is theirs.).

They then have the Beijing and Tokyo flight, but one area that MAN stands out is the ME capacity.

MAN still has one of the highest ME service levels in Europe, with more capacity to come, so, it's a great accolade to have.

What DUS does have over MAN in the main part, is a small hub operation from the flag carrier. It has one long haul route and the Eurowings operation, to which MAN doesn't have a BA equivilent.

 

[Dobbo]

Yes, the SQ flight is 5x weekly shared with IAH-SIN traffic, but it is on a larger aircraft and from MANs perspective is 10 weekly departures rather than 4 (at least that was my rationale).

With CX, it is a larger aircraft and the route is more established. I don't think many of us are expecting it to remain 4x weekly at MAN for long.

The two standout areas in MAN's favour are the Middle East carriers and the USA. In DUS's favour is the hub operation from Air Berlin.

 

[ethanegcc]

Yes, LH puts BA to shame operating from an airport that isn't their base. I presume UA also operate from DUS so nothing to do with a JV? And they have the EW subsidiary which ANA have used to connect to NRT (MAN is one of these, along with EMA and other UK airports I am sure)

I understand that from SQ but our route is more established with 30 years under it's belt. I really hope VS/TCX can establish a bit more of a hub operation but will never provide 'feed' - that is where BE's role arrives.

I really hope CX increases - any information on that front User?

 

[Dobbo]

I don't think United or American operate to DUS.

 

[Jerry]

I don't think United or American operate to DUS.

Only Delta to Atlanta.

 

[Dobbo]

German airlines give decent coverage to the US. We have already mentioned the LH service to EWR. Air Berlin also fly to the US including:

Boston
Fort Myers
Los Angeles
San Francisco
Miami
JFK
Orlando

 

[ethanegcc]

Right, so I suppose BA do have an AA JV with departures from MAN whereas UA don't fly from DUS so there can't be a codesharing agreement. Thank you!

 

[Jerry]

United have a codeshare with Lufthansa and American Airlines with Air Berlin.