Road, Rail & Access Issues

[Aviador]

Details of the forthcoming May 2018 rail timetable changes are now being released, so details of the new through Leeds-Bradford Interchange-Manchester Airport service are now available. For instance, there is a weekday train that leaves Bradford Interchange at 07:41 and arrives at Manchester Airport at 09:18.

If you look at the journey times it's not going to make a huge difference to the majority of peoples travel plans. As you said in an earlier post only 15% of the total throughput of Manchester passengers use rail as a means of getting to Manchester airport. It's going to take over an hour and a half to get from Bradford to Manchester airport. That might not sound too bad but then add the extra time waiting around for a bus or taxi along with the journey time to or from your home then it's a difference matter. I know you don't drive so for you or anybody else who doesn't drive, this might prove advantageous. For those who do drive it's likely they wont even consider this option.

 

[a300boy]

I am going over for a couple of days spotting and having looked at the bus and train options but I have decided to drive subject to the weather being ok and if not I will cancel the hotel and stay at home.

 

[lbaspotter]

So its still going to take me over 2 hours to get from my home to Manchester airport using public transport even though ill be able to pick Train up 15 mins walk away at New Pudsey. No thanks. In car from my home to Manchester can be done just over 1 hour as long as the is no traffic problems on M62.
Leeds/Bradford still wins for me, As can do it from mine in 30 mins using 2+ Buses (9/9A via Horsforth or 91/508 via Kirkstall connect onto 757 to Airport) or 10 mins in Car/Taxi.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

I use the leeds to Halifax rail service often and its a minimum of 30 minutes from Leeds to Bradford interchange, which is a time consuming inter change as the train has to leave in the same direction as it arrives, delays are frequent and at the moment the service to Manchester (from York, Hull, Leeds etc) get usually one cancellation a day and always frequent delays.
So from Leeds its going to take just over 2 hours, delays will be virtually certain at this early morning time, I would not want to be flying out off Manchester until after mid day, not really much competition to LBA, especially as we are to see serious upgrade on this route from 2019 and massive engineering delays, time consuming re routes, cancellations, buses scheduled on week ends etc are in the pipe line.
Good luck to all who brave this line, only three days of strikes this week and this is the good news.

 

[Bigman]

I didn't realise until this morning that there is actually a direct train from Leeds to East Midlands Airport Parkway. Don't panic...there is only 1 a day!!! It is however a shame that LBA cannot replicate Leeds City Station...39 new destinations from May 2018 (and yes, I am bored and tired this morning!!).

 

[lbaspotter]

How many destinations will the new LBA Parkway station serve if both the Local Northern trains and the new Harrogate East Coast mainline trains to London get to stop there too?

 

[Bigman]

There would probably be around 17 in total if they just have the current Leeds-Harrogate-York service and the planned 2-hourly London’s. This could increase if they took the sensible option of running through trains to places like Bradford, Knottingley and Sheffield.

A really good option would be use 4 car Class 769 hybrids which could work York-Harrogate-Leeds-Shipley-Bradford FSq/Skipton. The 170’s could work to Sheffield via Wakefield Kirkgate and Barnsley, but would need to cross over to platforms 11 or 12d at Leeds to do so, so pathing these trains may cause an issue.

They could always do a Leeds-York circular via Garforth, which would make the planned Leeds East Parkway a viable park-and-ride service for LBA in its own right.

 

[White Heather]

I will be very surprised if the Parkway Station has a platform big enough to accommodate the London Kings Cross trains. They already don't stop at Horsforth when heading to Harrogate because that platform is too small - and although they DO stop at Horsforth in the morning, heading to London, supplementing the Northern Trains into Leeds, 4 of the coaches are hanging off the end of the platform. It would be nice to be proved wrong but I suspect a change of train at Leeds will be required. After all, we never do things properly on this side of the Pennines do we? We always sell ourselves short in one way or another.
However - we have discussed at the Consultative Committee the prospect of trains operating from the likes of Bradford to Harrogate via Leeds and LBA, and similarly from Skipton, Wakefield, Selby etc. So even without the London trains stopping, LBA could potentially have direct trains from most significant towns and cities in the area.

 

[Aviador]

I will be very surprised if the Parkway Station has a platform big enough to accommodate the London Kings Cross trains. They already don't stop at Horsforth when heading to Harrogate because that platform is too small - and although they DO stop at Horsforth in the morning, heading to London, supplementing the Northern Trains into Leeds, 4 of the coaches are hanging off the end of the platform. It would be nice to be proved wrong but I suspect a change of train at Leeds will be required. After all, we never do things properly on this side of the Pennines do we? We always sell ourselves short in one way or another.
However - we have discussed at the Consultative Committee the prospect of trains operating from the likes of Bradford to Harrogate via Leeds and LBA, and similarly from Skipton, Wakefield, Selby etc. So even without the London trains stopping, LBA could potentially have direct trains from most significant towns and cities in the area.

With only 15% of Manchester airport passengers arriving by rail to the airport (sorry Bigman - Tin hat ready as you say), I think it's a little fictional to expect passengers to use Leeds Bradford for onward travel to London. Perhaps, just perhaps, after HS2 but even then it's a long shot unless travelling to Leeds Bradford and catching a train to London really does work out significantly cheaper.

A 24 hour rail alternative to get to Leeds Bradford Airport from places like Harrogate, York, Middlesbrough, Scarborough, Wakefield or Sheffield is what we really need. If something of that nature is possible it might just temp people to use LBA over alternative airports, if they would otherwise be catching the train there.

 

[Silvercity]

To give some insight of a Parkway Station, Liverpool South has been a great sucess both for Park and Ride passengers but also airport passengers. You see many rail passengers with cases using it, as the station offers a wide variety of long distance rail connections, plus the local Merseyrail metro. The bus interchange is easy, transferring passengers to Liverpool Airport terminal quickly, plus there are other bus routes to different destinations.

There has been talk about the Virgin Euston service stopping, its the only train that doesn't at present.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

WH: I not sure the length of the train matters, we travelled Ashford International to Euston recently sat in one of the rear coach, the overhead signs and the guard advised that at certain stations you would not be able to get off sat in the rear two carriages. Have to say when we loaded at Ashford announcements that the rear carriages for Euston and certain other stations only, front carriages for X Y and Z.
When the guard came and checked the tickets he advised folks that they must move to the front to get off, he advised train full and not to move and that announcement would be made 5 minutes before stations to give folk time to move. (the carriage on board advise had a constant message we were sitting in a carriage that we would be unable to get off at certain stations)
As an oldie I can remember in the 50's and 60's trains broke in two you had to be sat in the correct carriages to get to your destination, when you think that we had no overhead displays etc everyone managed.
If the platform not long enough not sure an issue, certainly on the Guiseley to Leeds service trains have been longer then platforms with no issues since the new rolling stock, where each carriage door is controlled, against all or nothing.

 

[Bigman]

For those who are not aware, East Coast will be receiving 5-car Azuma Hybrids, which operate on either diesel or overhead electrics. Once the HST's go, these will be the trains used on the Harrogate service. This will therefore vastly reduce platform length issues.

 

[leedslad]

Opportunity to feedback on the proposed multi billion ivestment in Northern strategic transport links here.

https://surveys.ipsosinteractive.com/mrIWeb/mrIWeb.dll

However it seems to make little or no reference to access to LBA.

Given the billions to be spent I'd have hoped for

1) short branch line to the terminal for dedicated rail halt (they're proposing a brand new line from Leeds to Bradford so you'd think half a mile branch line to the airport feasible).

2) better Road access to the m62 from the airport. Perhaps a new Road from Damsons Corner to Birkenshaw. Imagine the impact on journey time to M62 from North Leeds that would have!

 

[White Heather]

Opportunity to feedback on the proposed multi billion ivestment in Northern strategic transport links here.

https://surveys.ipsosinteractive.com/mrIWeb/mrIWeb.dll

However it seems to make little or no reference to access to LBA.

Given the billions to be spent I'd have hoped for

1) short branch line to the terminal for dedicated rail halt (they're proposing a brand new line from Leeds to Bradford so you'd think half a mile branch line to the airport feasible).

2) better Road access to the m62 from the airport. Perhaps a new Road from Damsons Corner to Birkenshaw. Imagine the impact on journey time to M62 from North Leeds that would have!

As has been mentioned before, a heavy rail line to the airport cannot and will not happen. The gradients from the Harrogate Line to the airport, and from the airport down to Guiseley on the Ilkley Line are both beyond the limits of a normal train, (confirmed by surveys) hence the now general acceptance and provision of funding for the Parkway Station on the Harrogate Line. which will hopefully also double up as a Park and Ride alongside the (hopefully) new link road.

In the longer term, the airport and council are open to the development of a tram/train link to the airport, which would run from the Harrogate Line at Horsforth across to the Ilkley Line at Guiseley with a station at the airport terminal. This is years away though and the chances of it being seen any time soon has just reduced further by the liquidation of Carillion and the likely further delays in the completion of the tram/train link between Sheffield and Rotherham, which is seen very much as a 'trial' for other schemes around the country.

 

[BarnsleyHolidays]

Opportunity to feedback on the proposed multi billion ivestment in Northern strategic transport links here.

https://surveys.ipsosinteractive.com/mrIWeb/mrIWeb.dll

However it seems to make little or no reference to access to LBA.

Given the billions to be spent I'd have hoped for

1) short branch line to the terminal for dedicated rail halt (they're proposing a brand new line from Leeds to Bradford so you'd think half a mile branch line to the airport feasible).

2) better Road access to the m62 from the airport. Perhaps a new Road from Damsons Corner to Birkenshaw. Imagine the impact on journey time to M62 from North Leeds that would have!

Let's throw this into the mix.

Extend the M65 from Colne to route down the Wharfe valley passing within a couple of miles of LBA (short spur road) before heading to the east of Harrogate and joining with the A1(M). The residents of Barnsley are well served by good road connections and it is only proper that the residents north west of Leeds have the same benefits. Oh dear, I've forgotten the nimby element of Ilkley, one of the most traffic choked towns in Wharfedale!

Barnsley Holidays

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

They should have always by-passed that hell hole.

 

[Pat]

The chance to link LBA with the motorway system was sunk over 40 years when the Aire Valley Motorway was cancelled

 

[White Heather]

The chance to link LBA with the motorway system was sunk over 40 years when the Aire Valley Motorway was cancelled

It was the Pudsey - Dishforth Motorway that was cancelled. It was due to run right alongside the airport, where Scotland Lane is to this day, and pretty much along a similar line to the (now) proposed airport link road. It was also due to follow the route now taken by the Harrogate by-pass. The problem was cost, and damage to the environment in attempting to run a motorway from the top end of Pool Bank down into the valley. It is far too steep for a motorway so would almost certainly have resulted in a long, gradual descent along the valley side, dropping down from Pool Bank towards Arthington, with huge environmental damage. It was a shame for LBA though, following on not long after the refusal by the Environment Minister (Peter Walker) to allow the proposed runway extension. I am convinced that had the motorway been built, LBA would have grown much quicker. I suspect the Environment Minister also knew that, and there seemed to be a determination at that time to ensure LBA did NOT develop further, both at Central Government and Local Authority level. In the end of course, they linked the M62/M1 and A1 to the South East of Leeds instead - a route that was far simpler to build.

 

[White Heather]

The chance to link LBA with the motorway system was sunk over 40 years when the Aire Valley Motorway was cancelled

It was the Pudsey - Dishforth Motorway that was cancelled. It was due to run right alongside the airport, where Scotland Lane is to this day, and pretty much along a similar line to the (now) proposed airport link road. It was also due to follow the route now taken by the Harrogate by-pass. The problem was cost, and damage to the environment in attempting to run a motorway from the top end of Pool Bank down into the valley. It is far too steep for a motorway so would almost certainly have resulted in a long, gradual descent along the valley side, dropping down from Pool Bank towards Arthington, with huge environmental damage. It was a shame for LBA though, following on not long after the refusal by the Environment Minister (Peter Walker) to allow the proposed runway extension. I am convinced that had the motorway been built, LBA would have grown much quicker. I suspect the Environment Minister also knew that, and there seemed to be a determination at that time to ensure LBA did NOT develop further, both at Central Government and Local Authority level. In the end of course, they linked the M62/M1 and A1 to the South East of Leeds instead - a route that was far simpler to build.

 

[ls27]

If my memory serves me right, the M65 was intended to be on the same alignment as the present Air ValleyTrunk Route to Bradford, to link with what is now the present M65 into East Lancashire