Road, Rail & Access Issues

[Tarn Spotter]

whoshotjimmi: Not going to get involved as promised only to comment on the two reports I put up re traffic flow the A65 traffic volume is 5840 per hour morning rush hour and 6480 per hour evening rush hour and these were measurements done in 2010, not the figures you state.
See the city i worked in for many years, Milan has today with Turin made all public trasnport free to get people out of cars, food for thought.

 

[lbaspotter]

Yorkshire Evening Post is today reporting that the public consultation on improving road access to Leeds Bradford Airport has been extended by a month and will now end on Friday, February 26 whilst a number extra of drop-in sessions have been organised as well.

Wednesday 13 January - Yeadon Library & One Stop Centre, 3-6:30pm
Thursday 14 January - Pool Village Hall, 1:30-4:30pm
Friday 15 January - The Grove Methodist Church, Horsforth, 3-7pm
Monday 18 January - Leonardo Building, 11am-2p
Wednesday 20 January - Bramhope Methodist Church, 2-5pm

Read more: http://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co.uk/n ... z3uJIyCGlA

 

[cmj]

Only in Leeds could be set up a new transport system that terminates at an ASDA store - when there is the region's No 1 airport just 3 miles away. Another opportunity missed - although I for one consider the Trolley Bus a waste of time and money.

For Leeds, access to the airport by public transport from anywhere not on the one bus route just doesn't exist. From Headingley there is a bus that goes probably within a mile of the airport but doesn't actually serve it, so if you want to get there on public transport it's two buses that google tells me will 41- although I have noticed that the 41 minute journey has 7 minutes between two buses at Dyneley Arms, I wouldn't want to rely on making that connection!

 

[whoshotjimmi]

whoshotjimmi: Not going to get involved as promised only to comment on the two reports I put up re traffic flow the A65 traffic volume is 5840 per hour morning rush hour and 6480 per hour evening rush hour and these were measurements done in 2010, not the figures you state.
See the city i worked in for many years, Milan has today with Turin made all public trasnport free to get people out of cars, food for thought.

The figures I quoted were from a report in 2013 and were supporting the building of the A65 bus corridor. Unfortunately, I now cannot find the same document. This is a lesson to learn: when quoting figures, include the source material. The 2010 figures you quote sound about right on the report I was looking at. Overall since 2000, the trend has been downwards and the passengers figures on the Airedale, Wharfedale and Harrogate lines has been upward. I was actually quite startled by the trend and did not expect it but, when you think about it, improvements have continually been made on the rail network during that period, suggesting that people want the option. Give them a station where they can park their car easily and it would be happy days.

 

[yorkguy]

I notice in the latest figures published for railway station usage last year (ORR) that the passenger numbers using Durham Tees Valley airport station actually quadrupled from the previous year. So with that kind of growth going on elsewhere there must be hope of a rail link for LBA. Admittedly the growth at MME was from 8 annual passengers to 32, but I'm sure LBA station might manage a few more than that.

 

[Aviador]

I Tweeted the Leeds North West MP, Greg Mulholland last night regarding access to Leeds Bradford Airport as he is trying to gain momentum on the idea of a rail link to the airport. He says Leeds City Council should be offering a fourth option to improve links to the airport - a rail link.

I said a rail link would cost considerably more but he claims that is not the case and the Department For Transport report on access to the airport was misleading.

Greg Mulholland didn't explain why he thought the Department For Transport report was misleading.

One of the things people need to understand though is although a rail link would be desirable, it wouldn't necessarily lead to a huge fall in passengers arriving to the airport by road except perhaps those arriving from further afield.

 

[Seasider]

I checked the timings of busses from the coast to LBA. Earliest arrival is 11am, time taken 4 hours. Latest departure 2pm, time taken 4.5 hours. I can get there by car at any time and it takes less than 2 hours.
There must be a lot of people like me for whom public transport is a "no brainer". I would love to use my bus pass and save myself £80-100 but it isn't possible.

 

[airforced]

I,like many others, are in exactly the same situation Seasider and I think that discussions on here can get a bit parochial and tend to forget that the majority of folk flying from LBA need to arrive there by car as no other viable options exist. From memory only about 21% of departing passengers arrive by public transport (might be a bit out on that % but not a million miles).

Getting to LBA from our part of the world also of course includes such things as taxis or bus to the railway station/bus station not to mention lugging suitcases on and off several forms of transport on the way. Totally impractical. Not that I mind though. I actually prefer driving there and quite happily pay Sentinel for looking after the car rather than chance leaving it on an open car park for every Tom, Dick and Harry to do what they will with it while I'm away.

 

[lbaspotter]

Well it looks like something is happening regarding getting better transport links into the airport. As Transport expert Robin Gisby whom was the ex managing director of operations at Network Rail has just been appointed to the board of Leeds Bradford Airport with the aim of improving transport links according to the following article.

Source: http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/yor ... ford-board

TRANSPORT EXPERT JOINS LEEDS BRADFORD BOARD
17th Dec 2015 Yorkshire

A former Network Rail executive has been appointed to the board of Leeds Bradford Airport with the aim of improving transport links.

Robin Gisby worked at Network Rail for more than a decade, rising to the position of managing director of operations by the time of his departure in February of this year.

He has now been recruited by Leeds Bradford to help ensure the airport maximises the opportunities presented by high speed rail and the plans currently in the works to enhance the road connections into the airport.

Leeds Bradford is one of the fastest growing airports in the UK, used by 3.3 million passengers a year. It also contributes more than £100m annually to the city region economy and has been earmarked as a key element of the long-term transport vision for Leeds, with the need to develop its connectivity identified as critical to its future success as the regional airport and as an economic hub.

Gisby, who attracted criticism this time last year for his role in delays on the UK’s rail network, will also spend time looking at the airport's e-commerce and digital operations.

Gisby worked at Network Rail from 2002 when the government owned organisation was formed, having previously been employed by its predecessor Railtrack.

As well as his experience in the rail industry, he has held roles at listed engineering group GKN.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

Although the new rail guy may know the right people to talk to any rail link no doubt will have to wait until HS2 arrives in 2033.
We have no national policy for the motor car and our MP's like my local one Greg dont tell us the truth. Were treated as Ruhbarb
Greg and his mates would rather stop expansion at Heathrow then make long term decisions to take this country forward, same as Fracking etc
Every modern car has GSP tracking and for £250m could be installed in every car. making a charge to use certain roads at certain times and drop the road fund licence should be th eway ahead.

 

[Aviador]

I understand that idea had already been thwarted because it would hurt rural communities too hard.

 

[airforced]

I understand that idea had already been thwarted because it would hurt rural communities too hard.

It would also go a long way to killing LBA. If I had to use public transport to get to the airport I would become a regular at MAN as I can do it on one train once I'd got to my local station.

Careful Tarn Spotter what you wish for, unless of course, killing LBA is your ultimate aim. :diablo:

 

[airforced]

Although the new rail guy may know the right people to talk to any rail link no doubt will have to wait until HS2 arrives in 2033.
We have no national policy for the motor car and our MP's like my local one Greg dont tell us the truth. Were treated as Ruhbarb
Greg and his mates would rather stop expansion at Heathrow then make long term decisions to take this country forward, same as Fracking etc
Every modern car has GSP tracking and [hi-lighty:wrr32t2s]for £250m could be installed in every car[/hi-lighty:wrr32t2s]. making a charge to use certain roads at certain times and drop the road fund licence should be th eway ahead.

Is this £250m coming from the same pot as the £75m to build the new road to the airport I wonder?

 

[Bigman]

Wouldn't it be nice if they got cracking on with the new road job (Option A of course) and had the sense to put a small spur to a new parkway station North of Horsforth. By the time it gets built, we will have 4 trains an hour running between Leeds and Harrogate. This will include a 2 hourly Virgin East Coast service from Kings Cross, which would therefore mean direct trains from Wakefield and Doncaster.

By then we will also have a direct hourly Bridlington-Beverley-Hull-Leeds service with Arriva Northern (would this help you seasider?).

Just imagine what we could get in the North if they invested the same amount of money thrown at Crossrail!! LBA Parkway...Colne to Skipton re-opened...tram trains, to name but a few.

 

[White Heather]

Exactly the point I made earlier this week Bigman. The provision of a road link can be achieved much quicker than a rail link and a new road link is required sooner than a rail link can be delivered (quoted as at least 10 years) and is required NOT ONLY for LBA, but to relieve general traffic in Yeadon and Rawdon.

Greg Mulholland supports LBA development (which makes a change) but is misguided on this. We need both the road link AND the rail link. The road link can be delivered in almost half the time and will not only help LBA but will remove significant amounts of traffic off the main road through Yeadon and Rawdon. It will also open up the possibility of park and ride facilities and a parkway station on the Harrogate line - which would be a very decent alternative to a prohibitively expensive heavy rail line up to LBA and across to Guiseley (as planned). This road link has been shown in the Masterplan, along the Option A route, for 10 years and nothing has been said until now. People in Yeadon and Rawdon have constantly complained about traffic problems, often accusing the airport of creating them (which is not correct) but now the road is actually going to happen, they are complaining it isn't necessary and jumping on the rail link bandwagon. I have no doubt at all that when they see how that will impact them, the good people of Guiseley will raise vociferous objections to that too.

We need Option A road link as soon as possible so those that access LBA by road can do so more quickly, and without impacting as much on the Rawdon and Yeadon areas.
We also need the Parkway Station which can be delivered in around 6 years and at a fraction of the cost of a direct rail link, and this should be combined with a park and ride. This should spawn more rail services locally in addition to the proposed increase in Virgin trains to Harrogate - some of which could stop at the LBA parkway station.
If it is shown that a direct rail link is achievable and affordable, then it can be provided later, but there is a real risk that we could forego the road and parkway station, concentrate on the rail link and end up with nothing. It would not be the first time it has happened in Leeds. Remember Supertram! This is Leeds we are talking about. Be careful what you wish for!

 

[Tarn Spotter]

White Heart: I am not sure everyone in Rawdon and Yeadon against the new road plans, I would say around 75% locally want anything they think can improve the currant mess.
Unfortunately when you get new plans there is always a vocal 1% whoes voice is heard above all others.
My banning of cars is seen as a danger to LBA, which I am not sure were anyone gets this logic from. Our actual driving of the car is coming to an end within the next 20 years. The software and processors are already in place for driverless cars and licences for actual u.k. road trails have already been issued for next year. How we get from A to B, the fuels we use, (petrol and diesel cars have to go by 2025 according to the Paris Protocol last week), the human no longer driving the car, even earlier then this date to control air pollution.
We have agreed a vast change in how we behave with the motor car, this is why the GPS control of cars back on the agenda, only by getting the car of the road are we going to get even near our obligations and allowing the robot to drive properly, not keeping the engine on whilst stationery etc. I accept many cars already have these features, mine does, but I can overide at the moment, not in a few years though.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I found the recent publication of entries and exits at Britain's stations very fascinating and was particularly interested in the Airedale, Wharfedale and Harrogate Lines. The source material is available at this link (learned my lesson):

http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/published- ... -estimates

The reason I have seen fit to mention it here is the undeniable proof that the Harrogate line is already far busier in passenger terms than the Wharfedale line and is to see a doubling in frequency over the next few years. Now, I am not mad enough to suggest that doubling the frequency will double the passenger numbers BUT it will undoubtedly have a positive impact.

Which leads me to bring back the whole idea of Harrogate line electrification. It would be hard to argue against those sorts of increasing passenger figures and service frequency when putting together a business case for electrifying the line, particularly when comparing to the Wharfedale line. In fact, it would be a no brainer.

Perhaps if the airport is to ever gain a rail link, this may be the best way to do it - wait until such time that electrification cannot be ignored any longer and then throw in a few million in private funding to create the spur. I have said many times before that a spur to LBA will not be publicly funded. It is not in the interest of the taxpayer and, if airports of the size of Edinburgh and Glasgow cannot successfully lobby for a rail link, then LBA has no chance.

Of course, any talk of an LBA rail link is pie in the sky anyway but, if there is a chance, the airport needs to work hard with local politicians and, in particular, the Harrogate Chamber Of Commerce. The whole electrification idea would need to be made a reality. If that is what happens, we could see a link in 15 years or so. It is all still a very distant dream but I think, with the new rail franchise and the entry and exit report findings, the conditions exist for such a thing to happen.

One final note.

If anyone thinks that all petrol and diesel cars will have disappeared by 2025, they are in dream world. The world does not have the political will or desire to see through the things that they put in place. Europe cannot even abide by its own lax rules on the environment, let alone 200 countries to whom it is of little or no relevance whatsoever. HOWEVER, it may make things like connectivity and electrification projects more attractive and, who knows, it may help to get the above moving.

 

[Tarn Spotter]

whoshotjimmi: Dont be too sure about the car going. Who would have thought we would be so gulible to vote in the climate change act in 2008, which was based on the totally flawed 2004 climate report.
Lord Hall boss of the BBC before the commons committee on Wednesday could give no reason why the Radio 4 programme that showed the 2004 report was so far wide of the mark had been pulled from Iplayer. The BBC have no interest in the facts. NASA measures the ice packs and on the 19th September announced after 8 years of the ice packs on this date the greatest area ever covered in the Antartic. Increases in the Antartic would replace the total area lost in the Artic within 5 years.
In addition the Greenland ice shelf have incraesed year on year
The BBC response was to show on Sundays news to celebrate the Paris protocol melting ice packs.
Big K closed yesterday, no more coal mining all based on very dubious calculations. When your told too dangerous to use the motor car you will believe.

 

[Aviador]

The voting is drying up here but as things stand 79% of people think option A is the best option.

Some may argue this is a bias vote as it is being held on a primarily pro airport site but I've advertised this page well on Twitter. Opponents of the road link such as LBAnogrowth, Bob Buxton; Rob Greenland and Greg Mulholland ‏the MP for the area surrounding the airport are well aware of the Forums4airports poll.

Unlike Leeds City Council who don't have a "none of the above" option, on Forums4airports only 8% of the people who have taken part don't want to see any option go-ahead.

So far as Forums4airports is concerned option A is the clear leader.

Lets hope Leeds City Council take note!

 

[White Heather]

I don't think there is much doubt the preferred option for the council is option A, but they have to have secondary options. I consider option 3 to be what amounts to the usual 'Do Nothing' option, as they might as well do nothing as do that. It won't make a jot of difference.

Calling it the airport link road is misleading really as it performs more than that function. It is effectively a Yeadon by pass but could prove to be so much more if it was extended further to link with the A65 at Burley in Wharfedale, as it would then be a Yeadon/Rawdon/Guiseley/Menston by pass for traffic using the A65. Yes, it would carve out even more green area - but if you build new homes and retail parks on green field (and brown field) sites, as has been the case many times in Aireborough, sooner or later the road network has to be expanded to cope. From where the proposed road finishes to the North of the airport, across to Burley in Wharfedale via the chevin, is around 4 miles I would think. It would probably increase the cost by 70-80% but, provided the road constructed was of a decent calibre, it would remove a large amount of traffic off the A65 through Aireborough, which seems to be choked up 7 days a week now, particulary through Guiseley.

If this was Manchester, the link road would be dual carriageway for starters, would probably connect through as described above. The Leeds Outer Ring Road would be at the very least upgraded (and would probably be a motorway by now), the proposed trolley bus would be a super-tram and would not stop at Holt Park, but would continue to the airport, to link with the new train link at LBA - the one we will probably never get. So many options for LBA, and always constrained by the fact there is never the money in Leeds that other Cities and Conurbations seem to have no difficulty attracting.