Bristol Airport - General Thread
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TheLocalYokel
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- #282
Of course, how could I have forgotten? Many thanks. I hope it's not a Freudian slip.
Frequency has also been increased to 4 x weekly from the 3 x weekly of this winter and last summer.
TheLocalYokel
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- #283
It's that quiet time of the year so I thought I'd have a look back to see how accurate future projections have been in respect of operations at BRS.
In 2005 the airport produced its Master Plan for the period 2005-2030 in response to the then government's 2003 white paper on civil air travel. The master plan ran to 126 pages of discussion, information, argument, facts and projections with numerous tables, graphs, drawings and pictures, plus another 30-odd pages of appendices.
The projected passenger figures caught my eye. They are set out in table form for the years 2004 (historical), 2010, 2015, 2020, 2025 and 2030. They are broken down into various sizes of aircraft with total annual passenger number projections for the years in question together with annual air transport movements and passengers per ATM.
2004 saw 4.571 mppa with 85 passengers per ATM.
2010 was projected to see 6.695 mppa, 91 per ATM
2015 was projected to see 8.076 mppa, 98 per ATM
2020 was projected to see 9.271 mppa, 103 per ATM
2025 was projected to see 10.812 mppa, 110 per ATM
2030 was projected to see 12.476 mppa, 115 per ATM
In recent years the airport has accepted that passenger growth will now occur at a slower rate, largely because of changing economic conditions and since the master plan was published the airport has been capped at 10 mppa as part of the planning consents for its major expansion which is still planned to take place incrementally as passenger traffic increases, as has always been the case.
Before the recession the airport was ahead of its target in 2008 when 6.229 mppa used the airport, but then came the economic downturn.
So has the airport fared generally in the years since 2005? Better than many; in fact better than the majority of regional airports in the UK.
Annual passenger numbers rose steadily each year to the record 2008, followed by a drop in 2009 (when the recession really began to bite) to 5.615 mppa. In both 2008 and 2009 there were 104 passengers per ATM, ahead of the projections.
2010 saw 5.723 mppa (nearly a million down on the projection made five years previously) but passengers per ATM at 106 was better than projected. There was another rise in 2011 to 5.768 mppa (passengers per ATM up again at 109) and the 12 months up to the end of November 2012 saw 5.917 mppa with passengers per ATM at 116, which is above the figure projected to be reached in 2030.
This shows how hard it is to accurately predict trends in the aviation world. No-one could have forecast the severity and length of the recession. The annual passenger figures are below projections but the number per ATM significantly up. A look at the master plans of Cardiff and Exeter airports, also published in response to the 2003 white paper, shows that they are much, much further behind their projections than BRS, especially at CWL. I have no doubt that these three airports are not exceptions.
It's as easy to over-estimate as it is to under-estimate.
I trawled through publications issued by BRS in the early 1990s when a new terminal was at the top of the agenda. In 1993 a public enquiry was held into the plans though the new terminal was not completed until 2000 following the purchase of a controlling interest in the airport by the private sector (First Group). The airport has been completely in private hands for over a decade though First Group is no longer involved.
In 1993 the airport was handling 1.1 mppa and the airport publications expressed the hope that a new terminal would bring in around 2 mppa by 2003 with scope to extend the structure to accommodate up to 3.5 mppa if required. Well, 2003 actually saw 3.9 mppa but, as with the severe recession which no-one anticipated, the impact that the low-cost airline industry (unknown in Europe in the early 1990s) was not foreseen and there was no reason why it should have been.
Airport development planning seems to be a matter of luck as much as 'guesstimation'. A DfT projection made in 2010 estimated that Plymouth City Airport would be handling up to 2mppa by 2050. That airport has since closed.
In 2005 the airport produced its Master Plan for the period 2005-2030 in response to the then government's 2003 white paper on civil air travel. The master plan ran to 126 pages of discussion, information, argument, facts and projections with numerous tables, graphs, drawings and pictures, plus another 30-odd pages of appendices.
The projected passenger figures caught my eye. They are set out in table form for the years 2004 (historical), 2010, 2015, 2020, 2025 and 2030. They are broken down into various sizes of aircraft with total annual passenger number projections for the years in question together with annual air transport movements and passengers per ATM.
2004 saw 4.571 mppa with 85 passengers per ATM.
2010 was projected to see 6.695 mppa, 91 per ATM
2015 was projected to see 8.076 mppa, 98 per ATM
2020 was projected to see 9.271 mppa, 103 per ATM
2025 was projected to see 10.812 mppa, 110 per ATM
2030 was projected to see 12.476 mppa, 115 per ATM
In recent years the airport has accepted that passenger growth will now occur at a slower rate, largely because of changing economic conditions and since the master plan was published the airport has been capped at 10 mppa as part of the planning consents for its major expansion which is still planned to take place incrementally as passenger traffic increases, as has always been the case.
Before the recession the airport was ahead of its target in 2008 when 6.229 mppa used the airport, but then came the economic downturn.
So has the airport fared generally in the years since 2005? Better than many; in fact better than the majority of regional airports in the UK.
Annual passenger numbers rose steadily each year to the record 2008, followed by a drop in 2009 (when the recession really began to bite) to 5.615 mppa. In both 2008 and 2009 there were 104 passengers per ATM, ahead of the projections.
2010 saw 5.723 mppa (nearly a million down on the projection made five years previously) but passengers per ATM at 106 was better than projected. There was another rise in 2011 to 5.768 mppa (passengers per ATM up again at 109) and the 12 months up to the end of November 2012 saw 5.917 mppa with passengers per ATM at 116, which is above the figure projected to be reached in 2030.
This shows how hard it is to accurately predict trends in the aviation world. No-one could have forecast the severity and length of the recession. The annual passenger figures are below projections but the number per ATM significantly up. A look at the master plans of Cardiff and Exeter airports, also published in response to the 2003 white paper, shows that they are much, much further behind their projections than BRS, especially at CWL. I have no doubt that these three airports are not exceptions.
It's as easy to over-estimate as it is to under-estimate.
I trawled through publications issued by BRS in the early 1990s when a new terminal was at the top of the agenda. In 1993 a public enquiry was held into the plans though the new terminal was not completed until 2000 following the purchase of a controlling interest in the airport by the private sector (First Group). The airport has been completely in private hands for over a decade though First Group is no longer involved.
In 1993 the airport was handling 1.1 mppa and the airport publications expressed the hope that a new terminal would bring in around 2 mppa by 2003 with scope to extend the structure to accommodate up to 3.5 mppa if required. Well, 2003 actually saw 3.9 mppa but, as with the severe recession which no-one anticipated, the impact that the low-cost airline industry (unknown in Europe in the early 1990s) was not foreseen and there was no reason why it should have been.
Airport development planning seems to be a matter of luck as much as 'guesstimation'. A DfT projection made in 2010 estimated that Plymouth City Airport would be handling up to 2mppa by 2050. That airport has since closed.
TheLocalYokel
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- #284
http://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/ ... _1_1802080
The local Weston newspaper has been given 'exclusive access behind the scenes' at BRS and today the reporter set down his thoughts.
There is nothing earth-shattering in his piece but he did speak to Robert Sinclair, the CEO, from whom he obtained some quotes.
The article reminds us that the new CEO's arrival in 2009 coincided with the deepening recession that led to the airport's first drop in annual passenger numbers for many years.
Since then a recovery has set in alongside a number of infrastructure improvements that are all described.
Next in line is a walkway built out from the current site of the business lounge (this will be vacated in April when the new Aspire Lounge opens) to boarding gates.
As for route expansion, the new Bmi Regional flights to Hamburg and Frankfurt were mentioned with the CEO saying that expanding into Scandinavia and Germany was the immediate priority whilst admitting that 'half an eye was focusing on flights elsewhere'.
Mr Sinclair also said, “We lost our continental flight to New York (in 2010) which was a casualty of the recession. It was important from a profile sense. I would love to have them (back) in the fullness of time.”
Before concluding his article with a review of the opposition faced by the airport expansion, the reporter went in for a bit of vague forecasting when he wrote, 'Although far from a certainty, the ability to accommodate larger planes at the airport could open doors for flights to South Africa and the Far East in the future.'
I presume he is alluding to the Boeing 787 and the Airbus A 350. We shall have to wait a while to see if one or both bring to airports such as Bristol the major step up that was originally envisaged.
The local Weston newspaper has been given 'exclusive access behind the scenes' at BRS and today the reporter set down his thoughts.
There is nothing earth-shattering in his piece but he did speak to Robert Sinclair, the CEO, from whom he obtained some quotes.
The article reminds us that the new CEO's arrival in 2009 coincided with the deepening recession that led to the airport's first drop in annual passenger numbers for many years.
Since then a recovery has set in alongside a number of infrastructure improvements that are all described.
Next in line is a walkway built out from the current site of the business lounge (this will be vacated in April when the new Aspire Lounge opens) to boarding gates.
As for route expansion, the new Bmi Regional flights to Hamburg and Frankfurt were mentioned with the CEO saying that expanding into Scandinavia and Germany was the immediate priority whilst admitting that 'half an eye was focusing on flights elsewhere'.
Mr Sinclair also said, “We lost our continental flight to New York (in 2010) which was a casualty of the recession. It was important from a profile sense. I would love to have them (back) in the fullness of time.”
Before concluding his article with a review of the opposition faced by the airport expansion, the reporter went in for a bit of vague forecasting when he wrote, 'Although far from a certainty, the ability to accommodate larger planes at the airport could open doors for flights to South Africa and the Far East in the future.'
I presume he is alluding to the Boeing 787 and the Airbus A 350. We shall have to wait a while to see if one or both bring to airports such as Bristol the major step up that was originally envisaged.
TheLocalYokel
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- #285
Bristol Airport set to hit 6m passengers again; easyJet rules the roost
BRS features in anna aero this week. Very interesting breakdown of services and commentary, including some fascinating comments about the domestic market.
See this link: http://www.anna.aero/2013/02/13/bristol ... ers-again/
BRS features in anna aero this week. Very interesting breakdown of services and commentary, including some fascinating comments about the domestic market.
See this link: http://www.anna.aero/2013/02/13/bristol ... ers-again/
TheLocalYokel
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- #286
[textarea]Bristol Airport flies more Welsh passengers than Cardiff
More passengers from Wales use Bristol Airport than Cardiff, provisional figures for 2012's first half indicate.
Figures previously published also showed just over 1m passengers used Cardiff in 2012, down about 200,000 in a year, with nearly 6m at Bristol.
The statistics suggest the scale of the task facing the Welsh government in improving Cardiff Airport's fortunes as ministers finalise a deal to buy it.
The figures are based on a Civil Aviation Authority survey of Bristol.[/textarea]
Full report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21473968
The report also says that Bristol's first elected mayor, who is an Independent businessman and architect, is concerned that Wales may get a special deal on taxation that will lead to a playing field no longer level.
This is a bit rich coming from a man who, before he was elected, is on record as saying he didn't support Bristol Airport's expansion and suggested that a fast train link to LHR would be a better option.
He now says he believes that both BRS and CWL are 'unsatisfactory' airports and would like to see them combine in some way but he doesn't say how, though he is against a Boris Island type of airport.
More passengers from Wales use Bristol Airport than Cardiff, provisional figures for 2012's first half indicate.
Figures previously published also showed just over 1m passengers used Cardiff in 2012, down about 200,000 in a year, with nearly 6m at Bristol.
The statistics suggest the scale of the task facing the Welsh government in improving Cardiff Airport's fortunes as ministers finalise a deal to buy it.
The figures are based on a Civil Aviation Authority survey of Bristol.[/textarea]
Full report: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-21473968
The report also says that Bristol's first elected mayor, who is an Independent businessman and architect, is concerned that Wales may get a special deal on taxation that will lead to a playing field no longer level.
This is a bit rich coming from a man who, before he was elected, is on record as saying he didn't support Bristol Airport's expansion and suggested that a fast train link to LHR would be a better option.
He now says he believes that both BRS and CWL are 'unsatisfactory' airports and would like to see them combine in some way but he doesn't say how, though he is against a Boris Island type of airport.
TheLocalYokel
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- #287
Giving wings to airports across the UK.
Bristol Airport’s recommendations for a balanced aviation policy.
http://www.bristolairport.co.uk/about-u ... he-UK.ashx
It's a few months old but I don't think it's been highlighted before on Forums4Airports.
Gives a comprehensive presentation of the airport as it is and how it could be if the government went in for a more balanced aviation policy.
Bristol Airport’s recommendations for a balanced aviation policy.
http://www.bristolairport.co.uk/about-u ... he-UK.ashx
It's a few months old but I don't think it's been highlighted before on Forums4Airports.
Gives a comprehensive presentation of the airport as it is and how it could be if the government went in for a more balanced aviation policy.
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- #288
Not sure how much notice the government will take though.
Probably not much, but then there's precious little the government can or will do in the short term about the one issue that dominates national aviation policy, so they may just look at what else they can do in order to appear to be doing something while everyone waits for 2015.
I thought it was actually an incredibly well-written document if you ignore all the about-bristol-airport waffle in the middle. I think some kind of regional APD might just have a chance. It seems to make sense intuitively (i.e. charging a higher APD at congested airports to divert passengers to less congested ones), it seems fair, it will make the regions happy while not really affecting Londoners much at all (as long as you don't increase APD at congested airports but just lower it at regional ones), so it's just good politics IMHO. The budget implications are probably in rounding error territory either way.
I don't really understand why Bristol Airport waste energy and "attention span" on opposing the Heathrow west link. It seems a rather pointless exercise, and the pure volume of passengers that will still use Heathrow in the future means it makes sense overall, assuming Heathrow isn't going anywhere. And of course it ties in with things like HS2, Old Oak Common, etc. More specifically, Bristol Airport only seem to oppose the west link, then waffle on about some projects like the link road and BRT which are beyond a stage where the government needs to do anything about them (if they happen or not mostly depends on local politics I think), but they don't have any specific suggestions how the government could help with surface access to the airport at all. So all that's left is a generic "should help improve surface access to regional airports in general". You'd think that's common sense anyway, and Bristol Airport themselves don't seem to be suggesting links that would be controversial or hard to justify, such as a rail spur to the airport or better/direct connectivity to the M5.
I thought it was actually an incredibly well-written document if you ignore all the about-bristol-airport waffle in the middle. I think some kind of regional APD might just have a chance. It seems to make sense intuitively (i.e. charging a higher APD at congested airports to divert passengers to less congested ones), it seems fair, it will make the regions happy while not really affecting Londoners much at all (as long as you don't increase APD at congested airports but just lower it at regional ones), so it's just good politics IMHO. The budget implications are probably in rounding error territory either way.
I don't really understand why Bristol Airport waste energy and "attention span" on opposing the Heathrow west link. It seems a rather pointless exercise, and the pure volume of passengers that will still use Heathrow in the future means it makes sense overall, assuming Heathrow isn't going anywhere. And of course it ties in with things like HS2, Old Oak Common, etc. More specifically, Bristol Airport only seem to oppose the west link, then waffle on about some projects like the link road and BRT which are beyond a stage where the government needs to do anything about them (if they happen or not mostly depends on local politics I think), but they don't have any specific suggestions how the government could help with surface access to the airport at all. So all that's left is a generic "should help improve surface access to regional airports in general". You'd think that's common sense anyway, and Bristol Airport themselves don't seem to be suggesting links that would be controversial or hard to justify, such as a rail spur to the airport or better/direct connectivity to the M5.
TheLocalYokel
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You make some fair and reasonable points, tpm.
Regional apd has been mooted in some quarters though not by anyone in government so far as I am aware. The BRS management is also concerned that apd will be devolved to Wales where a state-owned CWL would be in the incredibly advantageous position of setting its own apd rates, but the English airports would remain subect to the Westminster government and its what many believe to be penal apd rates.
The Heathrow spur is contradictory in a sense. It would make it more convenient and quicker for people from the South West and South Wales to reach Heathrow but if all or a large number of the new electric trains had to stop to offload passengers (and pick them up in the reverse direction) it would negate one of the main reasons for electrifying the line, viz, a speedier journey between London and the South West and South Wales.
As to improving surface links to the airport, it's difficult to see what could realistically be done.
Central government has granted Bristol and its neighbouring authorities tens of millions (I forget the figure) for the BRT and link road and that ought to go ahead, despite the Mayor of Bristol's recent intervention to have part of the route altered.
The link road will connect the A 370 and A 38 and remove part of the bottleneck around Ashton and parts of Bedminster for traffic travelling to the airport from the Midlands and South Wales. There is talk that the Airport Flyer will use the BRT route to Ashton and then the link road to Bedminster Down though this would mean it bypassing much of Bedminster where a number of passengers regularly board and alight.
A better method might be to identify a dedicated bus lane from the city boundary to the central area though the width of the streets would make this difficult.
I can't see a motorway link from the M5 being built as the environmental objections would be enormous.
A rail link seems out of the question even though the Bristol-Exeter line is only 4-5 miles away in a straight line. It would need considerable civil engineering works and frequency could never match that of the Flyer. Many years ago I suggested Parson Street station on the edge of Bedminster as a rail/air interchange. The airport management told me it had been considered but there were a number of insurmountable problems including the reluctance of train companies to stop cross country trains there.
Regional apd has been mooted in some quarters though not by anyone in government so far as I am aware. The BRS management is also concerned that apd will be devolved to Wales where a state-owned CWL would be in the incredibly advantageous position of setting its own apd rates, but the English airports would remain subect to the Westminster government and its what many believe to be penal apd rates.
The Heathrow spur is contradictory in a sense. It would make it more convenient and quicker for people from the South West and South Wales to reach Heathrow but if all or a large number of the new electric trains had to stop to offload passengers (and pick them up in the reverse direction) it would negate one of the main reasons for electrifying the line, viz, a speedier journey between London and the South West and South Wales.
As to improving surface links to the airport, it's difficult to see what could realistically be done.
Central government has granted Bristol and its neighbouring authorities tens of millions (I forget the figure) for the BRT and link road and that ought to go ahead, despite the Mayor of Bristol's recent intervention to have part of the route altered.
The link road will connect the A 370 and A 38 and remove part of the bottleneck around Ashton and parts of Bedminster for traffic travelling to the airport from the Midlands and South Wales. There is talk that the Airport Flyer will use the BRT route to Ashton and then the link road to Bedminster Down though this would mean it bypassing much of Bedminster where a number of passengers regularly board and alight.
A better method might be to identify a dedicated bus lane from the city boundary to the central area though the width of the streets would make this difficult.
I can't see a motorway link from the M5 being built as the environmental objections would be enormous.
A rail link seems out of the question even though the Bristol-Exeter line is only 4-5 miles away in a straight line. It would need considerable civil engineering works and frequency could never match that of the Flyer. Many years ago I suggested Parson Street station on the edge of Bedminster as a rail/air interchange. The airport management told me it had been considered but there were a number of insurmountable problems including the reluctance of train companies to stop cross country trains there.
Thanks for dignifying my rambling with a reply.
I'm not sure if the plan is or ever was to run direct trains from Wales or Bristol to Heathrow if such a western spur was ever built. I think that's only a figment in the imagination of the local press or local politicians. I imagine one would simply change at Reading or a new Old Oak Common interchange to catch a Crossrail train to Heathrow (assuming Heathrow Express will by then have been replaced by Crossrail services, which could just be extended to the western interchange). Of course I might be making this up completely. Or maybe there would be one train every hour or so, who knows. I believe I read in some National Rail report that they don't believe the numbers would add up, just like the HS2 spur to Heathrow.
For what it's worth, I'm one of those passengers who catches the flyer from Bedminster. I don't know what I'd do if it were to go via Long Ashton. I have seen those plans as well and assumed it was a done deal. Not sure I'd walk all the way to Temple Meads, I'd probably drive to Kings Head Ln instead and catch the bus from there. Though I wouldn't be surprised if there'd still be a bus service into the Bedminster area anyway seeing how many airport and airline staff are living there (and which in my experience make up a large part of the flyer passengers getting on or off in the Bedminster area) - those are not going to move somewhere else, because where would that be?
I completely agree with you about the link to the M5, I don't think that's feasible politically. I was going to add "or financially", but I think a toll road could work (if it can work at Dallas/Forth-Worth it can work anywhere). Anyway, probably not going to happen.
The rail spur is a different matter though. I'm aware of your opinion on this, and can appreciate both the civil engineering challenges and costs involved. I have also read the section about this in the airport's master plan from 2006, which I believe asserts that rail spurs are generally considered viable only from 12.5mppa (or was it 15mppa?). It would clearly be an enormous challenge. However, I strongly believe that barring unexpected advances in teleportation technology it is not only entirely viable, but also the right thing to pursue. We're talking 10-20 years from now after all.
The game changer is, I believe, the Bristol Metro. Having grown up in a city that has an extensive underground and overground metro system I am well aware of what the Bristol "two trains per hour" Metro is not going to be, not initially anyway, but what we're witnessing is a radical change in the transport topology of the entire city region. This new topology will have rail as its backbone, and everything will be designed around that. It will also have Temple Meads in the middle, so many services which are scheduled to terminate at Temple Meads could just be extended via Bedminster and Parson Street towards the airport (ignoring infrastructure limitations in the surrounding area for now).
I don't think frequency is particularly important for an airport link by rail (though I do very much appreciate the 10-minute flyer frequency, which turns it into a true turn-up-and-catch-a-bus-within-minutes service). No one seems to mind that the Heathrow Express runs only every 15 minutes. Munich Airport, Germany's second hub, is connected to the city by an overground S-Bahn train which runs every 20 minutes for all practical purposes (theoretically there's a higher frequency because there are two routes, but only one route ever makes sense for a given journey; the main interchange Marienplatz is served in 20-minute intervals in practice). Trains from Brussels into the city are also not particularly frequent (15-20 minutes in my experience). I strongly believe that the fact that it is a rail link makes for such a step-change in quality that the decrease in frequency wouldn't matter.
Anyway, I don't expect anything to come of this any time soon, but regional politicians, businessmen and the airport need to get the ball rolling and plant the "aspiration" now so it's ready to be given serious thought when the time comes.
I'm not sure if the plan is or ever was to run direct trains from Wales or Bristol to Heathrow if such a western spur was ever built. I think that's only a figment in the imagination of the local press or local politicians. I imagine one would simply change at Reading or a new Old Oak Common interchange to catch a Crossrail train to Heathrow (assuming Heathrow Express will by then have been replaced by Crossrail services, which could just be extended to the western interchange). Of course I might be making this up completely. Or maybe there would be one train every hour or so, who knows. I believe I read in some National Rail report that they don't believe the numbers would add up, just like the HS2 spur to Heathrow.
For what it's worth, I'm one of those passengers who catches the flyer from Bedminster. I don't know what I'd do if it were to go via Long Ashton. I have seen those plans as well and assumed it was a done deal. Not sure I'd walk all the way to Temple Meads, I'd probably drive to Kings Head Ln instead and catch the bus from there. Though I wouldn't be surprised if there'd still be a bus service into the Bedminster area anyway seeing how many airport and airline staff are living there (and which in my experience make up a large part of the flyer passengers getting on or off in the Bedminster area) - those are not going to move somewhere else, because where would that be?
I completely agree with you about the link to the M5, I don't think that's feasible politically. I was going to add "or financially", but I think a toll road could work (if it can work at Dallas/Forth-Worth it can work anywhere). Anyway, probably not going to happen.
The rail spur is a different matter though. I'm aware of your opinion on this, and can appreciate both the civil engineering challenges and costs involved. I have also read the section about this in the airport's master plan from 2006, which I believe asserts that rail spurs are generally considered viable only from 12.5mppa (or was it 15mppa?). It would clearly be an enormous challenge. However, I strongly believe that barring unexpected advances in teleportation technology it is not only entirely viable, but also the right thing to pursue. We're talking 10-20 years from now after all.
The game changer is, I believe, the Bristol Metro. Having grown up in a city that has an extensive underground and overground metro system I am well aware of what the Bristol "two trains per hour" Metro is not going to be, not initially anyway, but what we're witnessing is a radical change in the transport topology of the entire city region. This new topology will have rail as its backbone, and everything will be designed around that. It will also have Temple Meads in the middle, so many services which are scheduled to terminate at Temple Meads could just be extended via Bedminster and Parson Street towards the airport (ignoring infrastructure limitations in the surrounding area for now).
I don't think frequency is particularly important for an airport link by rail (though I do very much appreciate the 10-minute flyer frequency, which turns it into a true turn-up-and-catch-a-bus-within-minutes service). No one seems to mind that the Heathrow Express runs only every 15 minutes. Munich Airport, Germany's second hub, is connected to the city by an overground S-Bahn train which runs every 20 minutes for all practical purposes (theoretically there's a higher frequency because there are two routes, but only one route ever makes sense for a given journey; the main interchange Marienplatz is served in 20-minute intervals in practice). Trains from Brussels into the city are also not particularly frequent (15-20 minutes in my experience). I strongly believe that the fact that it is a rail link makes for such a step-change in quality that the decrease in frequency wouldn't matter.
Anyway, I don't expect anything to come of this any time soon, but regional politicians, businessmen and the airport need to get the ball rolling and plant the "aspiration" now so it's ready to be given serious thought when the time comes.
TheLocalYokel
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I agree that a reduction to 15 minute or even 20 minute frequency on a train compared to the mostly 10 minute Flyer frequency would not be a major inconvenience.
Apart from the not inconsiderable problem of finding a huge amount of money to construct an airport rail link, extra rolling stock, improved signallng and pathways on the main line would have to be found to accommodate an extension of the hoped-for Bristol Metro (I know this is the popular local name for it but I'm not sure it's a true metro as it would involve 'normal' trains) to the airport.
I can't see any way that trains from Paddington would continue to the airport (the electric trains will be dual mode so far as I know so operationally there would be no problem), so we'd be looking at some sort of shuttle to/from the airport to/from Temple Meads, possibly an extension of,say, the Avonmouth/Henbury/TM circle (assuming that eventually happens).
Like you, I've used airport rail stations at such places as Heathrow, Gatwick, Sydney, Copenhagen, Brussels, Geneva and Amsterdam, none at 10-minute frequency of the Flyer so far as I remember, though they are efficient.
There are airports busier than Bristol with no rail link. Glasgow and Edinburgh in the UK for starters though I believe that EDI is getting a tram link. When I used Lisbon there was no rail link (there is now a metro I believe), neither was/is there one at Prague - both capital cities.
The busiest airport with no rail link that I've used is Melbourne Tullamarine that handles around 30 mppa. There have been proposals though no current one. Instead, it has a near identical system to the Bristol Airport Flyer. Bendy buses leave Southern Cross (formerly Spencer Street) rail station in the heart of Melbourne at, from memory, 10-minute intervals and after a five-minute dawdle through suburban streets reach a toll urban motorway and use a dedicated traffic lane to the airport. It's about a 12-mile journey but it takes around the same time as the Bristol Flyer from Temple Meads, perhaps a minute or two quicker on average.
If it did become feasible a rail link would be an excellent addition but in the meantime I believe the Flyer makes a very adequate substitute.
Apart from the not inconsiderable problem of finding a huge amount of money to construct an airport rail link, extra rolling stock, improved signallng and pathways on the main line would have to be found to accommodate an extension of the hoped-for Bristol Metro (I know this is the popular local name for it but I'm not sure it's a true metro as it would involve 'normal' trains) to the airport.
I can't see any way that trains from Paddington would continue to the airport (the electric trains will be dual mode so far as I know so operationally there would be no problem), so we'd be looking at some sort of shuttle to/from the airport to/from Temple Meads, possibly an extension of,say, the Avonmouth/Henbury/TM circle (assuming that eventually happens).
Like you, I've used airport rail stations at such places as Heathrow, Gatwick, Sydney, Copenhagen, Brussels, Geneva and Amsterdam, none at 10-minute frequency of the Flyer so far as I remember, though they are efficient.
There are airports busier than Bristol with no rail link. Glasgow and Edinburgh in the UK for starters though I believe that EDI is getting a tram link. When I used Lisbon there was no rail link (there is now a metro I believe), neither was/is there one at Prague - both capital cities.
The busiest airport with no rail link that I've used is Melbourne Tullamarine that handles around 30 mppa. There have been proposals though no current one. Instead, it has a near identical system to the Bristol Airport Flyer. Bendy buses leave Southern Cross (formerly Spencer Street) rail station in the heart of Melbourne at, from memory, 10-minute intervals and after a five-minute dawdle through suburban streets reach a toll urban motorway and use a dedicated traffic lane to the airport. It's about a 12-mile journey but it takes around the same time as the Bristol Flyer from Temple Meads, perhaps a minute or two quicker on average.
If it did become feasible a rail link would be an excellent addition but in the meantime I believe the Flyer makes a very adequate substitute.
TheLocalYokel
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Bristol and its European twin cities.
As there isn't much news coming out of the airport at the moment I had a look at how BRS compares with the airports that serve Bristol's European twin cities: Porto, Hannover, Bordeaux and Tbilisi.
Porto, city population 237,000, metropolitan area population 1.7 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 6.05 million passengers and was ranked 63rd in Europe by this measure. Its runway is 3,480 metres in length and it has a Metro connection to the city.
Bristol, city population 430,000, metropolitan area population 1 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 5.92 million passengers and was ranked 65th in Europe by this measure. Its runway is 2,011 metres in length but it has no rail or Metro link, instead it uses a Flyer bus service which is virtually on demand for most of the time and connects with city rail and bus stations.
Hannover, city population 526,000, metropolitan area population 1.1 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 5.29 million passengers and was ranked 71st in Europe by this measure. It has three runways, 3,800 metres, 2,340 metres and 780 metres in length respectively and has an S-Bahn link to the city.
Bordeaux, city population 236,000, metropolitan area population 1.1 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 4.38 million passengers and was ranked 84th in Europe by this measure. It has two runways, 3,100 metres and 2,415 metres in length respectively and has a bus link to the city with a tram link being a medium term plan.
Tbilisi, city and metropolitan area population 1.4 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 1.22 million passengers which means it's well outside Europe's top 100 hundred airports by this measure (Nantes Airport was at position 100 in 2012 with 3.63 million passengers). Its runway is 3,000 metres in length and it has an infrequent train connection to the city. As Tbilisi is the capital of Georgia its airport seems remarkably under-used though it is the busiest n the country.
Bristol's biggest twin city outside Europe is Guangzhou (formerly known as Canton in the UK) which is China's third largest city.
Its population is 12.7 million and its airport handled over 48 million passengers in 2012. Its has two runways, 3,800 metres and 3,600 metres in length respectively with a third runway of 3,800 metres length under construction. It has a Metro link to the city.
Conclusion
BRS seems to be holding up pretty well with its European twins. It clearly has a much smaller site than any of the others and might have done even better with a bigger facility and less challenging surface connectivity.
As there isn't much news coming out of the airport at the moment I had a look at how BRS compares with the airports that serve Bristol's European twin cities: Porto, Hannover, Bordeaux and Tbilisi.
Porto, city population 237,000, metropolitan area population 1.7 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 6.05 million passengers and was ranked 63rd in Europe by this measure. Its runway is 3,480 metres in length and it has a Metro connection to the city.
Bristol, city population 430,000, metropolitan area population 1 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 5.92 million passengers and was ranked 65th in Europe by this measure. Its runway is 2,011 metres in length but it has no rail or Metro link, instead it uses a Flyer bus service which is virtually on demand for most of the time and connects with city rail and bus stations.
Hannover, city population 526,000, metropolitan area population 1.1 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 5.29 million passengers and was ranked 71st in Europe by this measure. It has three runways, 3,800 metres, 2,340 metres and 780 metres in length respectively and has an S-Bahn link to the city.
Bordeaux, city population 236,000, metropolitan area population 1.1 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 4.38 million passengers and was ranked 84th in Europe by this measure. It has two runways, 3,100 metres and 2,415 metres in length respectively and has a bus link to the city with a tram link being a medium term plan.
Tbilisi, city and metropolitan area population 1.4 million.
In 2012 its airport handled 1.22 million passengers which means it's well outside Europe's top 100 hundred airports by this measure (Nantes Airport was at position 100 in 2012 with 3.63 million passengers). Its runway is 3,000 metres in length and it has an infrequent train connection to the city. As Tbilisi is the capital of Georgia its airport seems remarkably under-used though it is the busiest n the country.
Bristol's biggest twin city outside Europe is Guangzhou (formerly known as Canton in the UK) which is China's third largest city.
Its population is 12.7 million and its airport handled over 48 million passengers in 2012. Its has two runways, 3,800 metres and 3,600 metres in length respectively with a third runway of 3,800 metres length under construction. It has a Metro link to the city.
Conclusion
BRS seems to be holding up pretty well with its European twins. It clearly has a much smaller site than any of the others and might have done even better with a bigger facility and less challenging surface connectivity.
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- #294
Interesting comparisons and as you say Bristol seems to be faring well despite the geographical challenges.
TheLocalYokel
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[textarea]Airport teams up with tourism partners at Routes Europe
Bristol Mayor backs mission to secure new air services
Bristol Airport is teaming up with Destination Bristol and Bath Tourism Plus to promote the region’s attractions to airlines at the Routes Europe event in Budapest next week (12-14 May).
The aviation industry’s annual route development forum gives airports and tourism authorities the opportunity to meet with airlines to promote the case for new air services. Over 3,000 meetings take place over the course of the three day event, demonstrating the intense competition which exists for flights and the economic opportunities they create.
This year, representatives of Destination Bristol and Bath Tourism Plus will attend in partnership with Bristol Airport, demonstrating the region’s potential for inbound tourism to airlines considering new routes to the South West. The delegation has the backing of Bristol’s Mayor, George Ferguson, who said:
“Bristol Airport is integral to the creation of a world-class transport infrastructure for Bristol. The city is the most successful economy outside London with strong international links to businesses across the world. Bristol is also the most welcoming city in the UK, acting as a gateway to the South West and Wales for millions of visitors each year.
“Bristol Airport offers a particularly attractive opportunity for new airlines wanting to benefit from our local economy. I welcome the recent decision of bmi regional to commence new flights to Germany from Bristol, including to our twin city of Hannover. I would urge more companies to do likewise and help play their part in our growing success.”
Robert Sinclair, Chief Executive Officer at Bristol Airport, said:
“Our tourism offer can compete on the world stage, and by teaming up with Destination Bristol and Bath Tourism Plus we aim to demonstrate to airlines the huge potential for inbound tourists using Bristol Airport as a gateway to the region.”
John Hirst, Chief Executive of Destination Bristol, said:
“Bristol Airport is critical to the continued success of Bristol as a visitor destination for leisure and business travellers, and route development is core to our future growth plan. International Passenger Survey figures for 2011 show Bristol as the eighth most visited UK city by overseas visitors, and visitors from outside the UK were worth £139m to the Bristol economy. This research also demonstrated that over 49 per cent of visitors flying into Bristol spend at least one night in the city, a figure which we are keen to grow.
“The continued success of Bristol Airport has strong synergy with the growth of Bristol’s tourism economy. By working effectively in partnership with Bristol Airport, Bath Tourism Plus, Visit England and the airlines, we can help Bristol continue to grow as one of Europe’s strongest city destinations.”
Nick Brooks-Sykes, Chief Executive of Bath Tourism Plus, said:
“Stays by overseas tourists are now worth almost £80 million to the local economy of Bath and the surrounding area, and we have set out our ambition to increase this by 12 per cent over three years. With an increasing number of flights arriving into Bristol Airport and direct bus connections, Bath is well placed to grow our share of inbound tourism.
“Working with colleagues at Destination Bristol and Bristol Airport means that we can meet key decision makers, introduce them to Bath and then hopefully new business deals will be made. This is all part of our plan to drive more overseas business out of London and we are delighted to be supporting Bristol Airport with this initiative.”
The number of foreign residents using Bristol Airport has almost trebled in the last decade, with over a million journeys made by overseas visitors from 82 different countries in 2012. Analysis of the latest data from the Civil Aviation Authority Passenger Survey shows that 18 per cent of the Airport’s 5.9 million passengers last year were resident outside the UK, indicating an upsurge in visits to the South West and Wales.[/textarea]
Airport press release at: http://www.bristolairport.co.uk/media-c ... outes.aspx
The obvious gap in European routes is Scandinavia with only Copenhagen currently covered, by easyJet.
The mayor's nose must be as long as Pinicchio's. He's always been steadfastly against airport expansion at Bristol and made that quite clear once again when interviewed by the local paper in the run-up to last year's mayoral elections.
He was also a leading campaigner against a new stadium for Bristol City FC, for which finance and planning consents are in place, but it's been held up by legal applications to turn the site into a town green. Had the stadium gone ahead the club might well have been challenging for promotion to the Premier League instead of being relegated to the Third Division (the marketing people's euphemistic League One) this season with the potential loss of scores of millions that a Premier League club brings to a city's economy which would have complemented the millions already brought in by overseas visitors.
Bristol Mayor backs mission to secure new air services
Bristol Airport is teaming up with Destination Bristol and Bath Tourism Plus to promote the region’s attractions to airlines at the Routes Europe event in Budapest next week (12-14 May).
The aviation industry’s annual route development forum gives airports and tourism authorities the opportunity to meet with airlines to promote the case for new air services. Over 3,000 meetings take place over the course of the three day event, demonstrating the intense competition which exists for flights and the economic opportunities they create.
This year, representatives of Destination Bristol and Bath Tourism Plus will attend in partnership with Bristol Airport, demonstrating the region’s potential for inbound tourism to airlines considering new routes to the South West. The delegation has the backing of Bristol’s Mayor, George Ferguson, who said:
“Bristol Airport is integral to the creation of a world-class transport infrastructure for Bristol. The city is the most successful economy outside London with strong international links to businesses across the world. Bristol is also the most welcoming city in the UK, acting as a gateway to the South West and Wales for millions of visitors each year.
“Bristol Airport offers a particularly attractive opportunity for new airlines wanting to benefit from our local economy. I welcome the recent decision of bmi regional to commence new flights to Germany from Bristol, including to our twin city of Hannover. I would urge more companies to do likewise and help play their part in our growing success.”
Robert Sinclair, Chief Executive Officer at Bristol Airport, said:
“Our tourism offer can compete on the world stage, and by teaming up with Destination Bristol and Bath Tourism Plus we aim to demonstrate to airlines the huge potential for inbound tourists using Bristol Airport as a gateway to the region.”
John Hirst, Chief Executive of Destination Bristol, said:
“Bristol Airport is critical to the continued success of Bristol as a visitor destination for leisure and business travellers, and route development is core to our future growth plan. International Passenger Survey figures for 2011 show Bristol as the eighth most visited UK city by overseas visitors, and visitors from outside the UK were worth £139m to the Bristol economy. This research also demonstrated that over 49 per cent of visitors flying into Bristol spend at least one night in the city, a figure which we are keen to grow.
“The continued success of Bristol Airport has strong synergy with the growth of Bristol’s tourism economy. By working effectively in partnership with Bristol Airport, Bath Tourism Plus, Visit England and the airlines, we can help Bristol continue to grow as one of Europe’s strongest city destinations.”
Nick Brooks-Sykes, Chief Executive of Bath Tourism Plus, said:
“Stays by overseas tourists are now worth almost £80 million to the local economy of Bath and the surrounding area, and we have set out our ambition to increase this by 12 per cent over three years. With an increasing number of flights arriving into Bristol Airport and direct bus connections, Bath is well placed to grow our share of inbound tourism.
“Working with colleagues at Destination Bristol and Bristol Airport means that we can meet key decision makers, introduce them to Bath and then hopefully new business deals will be made. This is all part of our plan to drive more overseas business out of London and we are delighted to be supporting Bristol Airport with this initiative.”
The number of foreign residents using Bristol Airport has almost trebled in the last decade, with over a million journeys made by overseas visitors from 82 different countries in 2012. Analysis of the latest data from the Civil Aviation Authority Passenger Survey shows that 18 per cent of the Airport’s 5.9 million passengers last year were resident outside the UK, indicating an upsurge in visits to the South West and Wales.[/textarea]
Airport press release at: http://www.bristolairport.co.uk/media-c ... outes.aspx
The obvious gap in European routes is Scandinavia with only Copenhagen currently covered, by easyJet.
The mayor's nose must be as long as Pinicchio's. He's always been steadfastly against airport expansion at Bristol and made that quite clear once again when interviewed by the local paper in the run-up to last year's mayoral elections.
He was also a leading campaigner against a new stadium for Bristol City FC, for which finance and planning consents are in place, but it's been held up by legal applications to turn the site into a town green. Had the stadium gone ahead the club might well have been challenging for promotion to the Premier League instead of being relegated to the Third Division (the marketing people's euphemistic League One) this season with the potential loss of scores of millions that a Premier League club brings to a city's economy which would have complemented the millions already brought in by overseas visitors.
Skywatcher
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- May 22, 2013
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Re: Bristol Airport Apron Website - Update
As you will see, I'm new here, but I have been following the posts about the Bristol Airport apron website for a long time, and the quote above from October 2012 seems to be virtually the last one made, apart from a follow-up acknowledgement by TheLocalYokel.
It has been frustrating to see the apron website deteriorate in this way, especially as I visit it nearly every day to check on Thomson flights out of general interest. I now see strange aircraft '"departing" the Eastern apron that left ages ago and are still showing, whilst current Thomson flights seem to be up to date.
I do wonder if it would really be better if the apron website was actually removed for now as it's so misleading, especially as according to previous posts this had been the intention of the Airport management anyway, but has never happened.
I feel I'll be guilty of shooting myself in the foot in saying this, because I'll lose any info on the Thomson flights. Having said that, I do use the two flight tracking websites we all know about to give me live info on departing and arriving aircraft.
A pity it's gone this way; the apron website was so helpful to me.
alphagolf said:
As you will see, I'm new here, but I have been following the posts about the Bristol Airport apron website for a long time, and the quote above from October 2012 seems to be virtually the last one made, apart from a follow-up acknowledgement by TheLocalYokel.
It has been frustrating to see the apron website deteriorate in this way, especially as I visit it nearly every day to check on Thomson flights out of general interest. I now see strange aircraft '"departing" the Eastern apron that left ages ago and are still showing, whilst current Thomson flights seem to be up to date.
I do wonder if it would really be better if the apron website was actually removed for now as it's so misleading, especially as according to previous posts this had been the intention of the Airport management anyway, but has never happened.
I feel I'll be guilty of shooting myself in the foot in saying this, because I'll lose any info on the Thomson flights. Having said that, I do use the two flight tracking websites we all know about to give me live info on departing and arriving aircraft.
A pity it's gone this way; the apron website was so helpful to me.
TheLocalYokel
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Welcome to Forum4Airports, Skywatcher.
It is a frustrating situation although I seem to recall that the apron website sometimes failed to account for some parked aircraft when it was operating normally.
You may remember that several years ago the same website also included cameras on the eastern apron that refreshed every six seconds. These gradually became increasingly unreliable and were eventually removed so it may be the apron layout will go the same way.
It will be a shame but I'm not sure how high a priority the airport gives the the entire apron website.
It is a frustrating situation although I seem to recall that the apron website sometimes failed to account for some parked aircraft when it was operating normally.
You may remember that several years ago the same website also included cameras on the eastern apron that refreshed every six seconds. These gradually became increasingly unreliable and were eventually removed so it may be the apron layout will go the same way.
It will be a shame but I'm not sure how high a priority the airport gives the the entire apron website.
alphagolf
Well-Known Member
Hi Skywatcher, also welcome to Forums4Airports.
It has been and still is my mission to continue dialogue with the airport to resolve the errors with the stand layouts and the error's that you and the TheLokelYokel rightly highlight.
With this in mind I have this evening sent an email to Robert Sinclair, CEO at Bristol Airport requesting an update on this issue.
It has been and still is my mission to continue dialogue with the airport to resolve the errors with the stand layouts and the error's that you and the TheLokelYokel rightly highlight.
With this in mind I have this evening sent an email to Robert Sinclair, CEO at Bristol Airport requesting an update on this issue.
TheLocalYokel
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Thanks again alphagolf. We BRS watchers will certainly be interested in any reply.
Reading other aviation websites there seems to be some disagreement as to whether TOM has withdrawn long haul from next summer on commercial or operational grounds.
In a perverse way it would be better if it's commercial underperformance because that would not then necessarily place a questiuon mark against the B 787 at BRS in the future.
Reading other aviation websites there seems to be some disagreement as to whether TOM has withdrawn long haul from next summer on commercial or operational grounds.
In a perverse way it would be better if it's commercial underperformance because that would not then necessarily place a questiuon mark against the B 787 at BRS in the future.
alphagolf
Well-Known Member
Well no reply as yet, I do however know that Robert Sinclair has read it as I put a read receipt on it.
Just checked the apron website and the east and west apron pages have been removed, so my pessimistic side would suggest there is no immediate fix for the errors on the apron layouts and are we ever to see them again, who knows but I hope decency prevails and an explanation will be forthcoming.
Just checked the apron website and the east and west apron pages have been removed, so my pessimistic side would suggest there is no immediate fix for the errors on the apron layouts and are we ever to see them again, who knows but I hope decency prevails and an explanation will be forthcoming.
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