Bristol Airport - General Thread

[TheLocalYokel]

When WOW was announced I think that a number of people with an interest in the subject wondered whether a direct NYC service had become less likely, at least in the short term. I certainly did. About a year ago the airport was then sufficiently confident of securing a direct NYC service for 2016 that they stated publicly that talks were at an 'advanced stage' having, they said, just missed out to another airport for such a service in 2015. The assumption was that if the airline was American Airlines the other airport was BHX and if United it was NCL.

It does seem that for whatever reason the advanced stage talks foundered, for a service this year anyway. One of BRS's strengths going back many years and certainly since the airport was privatised is the ability of its senior management team in getting airlines and routes, most of which have succeeded, that to many people including me at times I admit seemed questionable in terms of the catchment's ability to support them. I believe that if anyone can get these long haul routes the BRS team can. I say this as someone who has never worked in the industry. I am a customer, albeit one who for many years has taken an interest in the often arcane practices (to an outsider anyway) of the airline and airport industries.

Dubai would suit me perfectly as my wife and I use Emirates every year to visit our daughter and her family in Australia. However, Emirates currently uses on its UK sectors aircraft that would be too big for BRS's limited operational capabilities.

Considering the many physical and natural obstacles with which the airport has to contend the fact that it is where it is now is little short of remarkable. An enduring frustration is 'what might have been' if BRS was sited at a larger and more accessible location. When the city council moved its airport from Whitchurch to Lulsgate in the 1950s because the former was incapable of being developed to accommodate the larger aircraft then coming into service it was creating an identical problem for future generations.

I was first aware of 'Lulsgate' as many older locals still refer to the airport when it was home to a glider club. As a youngster I lived a couple of miles down the road at Redhill and actually had no interest whatever in civil aviation then. I was consumed entirely by sport, and the two codes of football (round and oval ball) and cricket are still huge interests of mine although these days I'm just a spectator.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

APD Issue

In a Commons session yesterday on matters affecting Wales Liam Fox, MP for North Somerset, asked the Secretary of State for Wales, Stephen Crabb, what assessment had been made of the potential effect of devolving air passenger duty to Wales.

The Sec of State replied, "This Government have a proud record on devolution in Wales: establishing the Silk commission, devolving landmark new fiscal powers and taking forward the St David’s day agreement through the new Wales Bill. In that agreement, we committed to consider the case for devolving APD to Wales and this work is currently being undertaken and assessed by the Treasury."

Dr Fox then asked, "Devolving air passenger duty will create a market distortion favouring a state-owned airport against a private one. It will damage the economic viability of Bristol airport and have consequential detrimental effects in the south-west. When my right hon. Friend discusses this with the Chancellor, will he gently reflect on the fact that, had our colleagues not made such great gains in the south-west, there would not be a majority Conservative Government?"

The Sec of State replied, "I am sure that my right hon. Friend, like me, welcomes the fact that the Government are cutting APD in all parts of the UK. However, let us be clear: I want Cardiff airport to be a success story, but I also recognise that there are serious concerns about the effect APD devolution might have on competition issues in relation to Bristol airport."

I suppose the reference to cutting APD 'in all parts of the UK' refers to passengers under 16.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

APD

I posted the below in the CWL General thread but I’m copying it here as it obviously has a potential effect on BRS.

The draft Wales Bill that formally sets out those powers that will be transferred to the Wales Assembly Government is to be redrawn. This will mean a delay before the Bill can become an Act of Parliament and it is not likely to be presented in its revised form until later this year, possibly after the EU referendum.

There has been much criticism from many sections of political, business, legal and academic opinion that the Bill as currently structured could have the opposite effect to that intended and reduce the powers of the Assembly. There is also a fear that it is not tightly drawn and is open to challenge in the European Court of Justice.

Devolution of APD was not one of the powers listed in the current Bill and there is speculation that the Chancellor will announce such a move in this month's Budget.

Given that the Wales Bill as a whole is to be overhauled it may now be that there will be no announcement in the Budget but that APD devolution will be considered when the Bill is redrafted.

Speaking of which I wrote a letter to Robert Sinclair, BRS CEO, a couple of weeks ago on the subject of devolution of APD in which I said inter alia that I had written to my MP as the airport had requested. I also raised the subject of long haul, specifically asking about the capability of the B 787 and A 350 from BRS to such places as NYC and the Middle East.

I had heard nothing after a fortnight so sent an email to the airport’s general enquiry portal (the CEO’s personal email address doesn’t seem to be listed) asking for confirmation that my letter had been received.

Within 24 hours I received an email from an airport member of staff (what position she holds I don’t know because it wasn’t shown - it merely came from enquiries@bristol airport) that was a bog standard reply that consisted of three lines. It purported to be on behalf of the CEO but merely thanked me for my interest and support and confirmed that the airport continues to work towards direct New York and Middle East services both of which ‘are possible from Bristol Airport’.

I wonder whether, if I had not chased up my letter with an email, I would have received any reply at all and I also wonder whether my letter even reached the CEO’s office.

I find this a disappointing way to deal with a correspondent (especially a supportive one), is very poor PR particularly in the current circumstances with the airport needing all the support it can get in the APD devolution issue and contrasts unfavourably with previous MDs and CEOs (Les Wilson, John Parkin and Andrew Skipp come to mind) who would always reply themselves in far greater detail than the ‘on behalf of’ email that I received.

I have also received a reply from my MP who told me she has had a number of expressions of concern about the APD devolution and has written to the Chancellor adding her worries about job losses. She believes that there are ‘important distinctions’ between devolving APD to Wales and Scotland as the former would lead to a much greater cross-border impact.

I contacted her in 2011 about the same issue and she was sympathetic then and sent me a copy of a letter she had received from a minister of state at the Treasury which, unsurprisingly, was non-committal, and which I suspect will be the case this time unless a decision has already been announced by the time a reply is sent.

 

[Marko1]

I am surprised that the airport management team haven't made themselves more accessible via social media . I take on point Paul kehoe at bhx who is very active on Twitter and Debra barber at cwl is also on there. I think Brs should up their game and liase better. Their official Twitter feed is just littered with the same complaints about security and passport control and just doesn't reflect how the majority of people feel about the airport in my opinion

 

[Aviador]

I have said the same about other airports. It is my understanding that many prefer to stick away from social media because they can get it drastically wrong if they're not careful. That's why most airport have a Public Relations specialist to ensure the right things are said at the right time. Some airports don't appear to have one, others appear to have a general office bod doing the PR as an add on to their usual day work. That's when things can go wrong.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I assume that's why you asked about Mr Kehoe TLY?

He's generally pretty good at answering emails and as Mark01 has stated he usually answers enquiries made on Twitter and often asks people to email should more detail be needed.

It's a shame that the Bristol management have chosen not to reply to you in any great detail. I can imagine that they must receive hundreds of emails about toilets not being cleaned, or queues at security but I would have thought that an issue such as APD would require more attention. As has been said, the airport need as much support on this issue as possible.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Thank you for the responses.

Yes, that was the reason I asked about Mr Kehoe, Ray.

I'm not a member of any social media web site but I do occasionally access airport Twitter and Facebook pages where it seems you don't have to be a member to read the content.

To take up Marko's point, the CWL Twitter page seems far more popular than the BRS one. Of course, this may have nothing to do with the lack of management input at BRS. It may just be that more people are interested in CWL as an airport.

Anyway, still no definitive information about the 787 and 350 at BRS, which was one of the reasons for writing my letter, so speculation will continue.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I'm no expert but adding 787 taxiway routes to the NATS data suggests to me the airport, at least, appear to think that it is possible?

Whether airlines agree is a different matter.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

The 787 is apparently certified for operations at BRS but, as you rightly say, it's down to airlines to decide whether it is a viable option for them, whether operationally, commercially or a combination of both.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Air Passenger Duty

With the Budget on Wednesday the local BBC tv news 'Points West' led on the story in its main early evening bulletin.

The BBC's regional business editor was at BRS and interviewed Robert Sinclair, BRS CEO, who repeated his worries about loss of routes, passengers, jobs and a hit to the region's economy if APD is devolved to Wales. In a telling shot from the top of the BRS control tower the BBC man pointed out that CWL is just over 20 miles away.

He contrasted BRS's booming business with the struggle that CWL has had, especially in recent years. To illustrate this they showed a shot of an empty CWL terminal. They also interviewed a business professor from South Wales who said that with Scotland joining Northern Ireland with devolved APD it was only fair that Wales should get it too. As always with this argument, nothing was said about the unfairness of England being left out.

The BBC man said that a number of airlines had indicated that they would go into CWL if APD is devolved and reduced significantly - the WAG has already said it would reduce it to nil. I'm aware that Ryanair have made these noises - it's documented in the public domain - but I don't know who are the other airlines.

The consensus in the media now seems to be that an announcement that APD will be devolved will be made in the Budget. If so, I assume it will along the lines that it will be added to the Wales Bill that will be redrafted later this year after the original one was withdrawn a week or two ago.

That said, even the so-called financial experts don't always predict the Budget correctly.

 

[forest1979]

Seems APD is not going to Wales if I have read the news correctly! Great news if this is correct?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Seems APD is not going to Wales if I have read the news correctly! Great news if this is correct?

I don't think it's quite that cut and dried. When the Wales Bill was withdrawn a few weeks ago because it was thought to actually provide Wales with fewer powers and not more, and also because it was so full of holes that would have occupied the European Court of Justice for years, I thought then that any devolution of APD to Wales would be included in the new Bill rather than in the Budget.

The new Wales Bill will cover all sorts of taxation matters not just APD (if APD is included - it wasn't in the Bill that's been withdrawn).

The new Bill is not likely to be introduced until after May and how long after that before it becomes law is anyone's guess.

There will be a lot of argument in Parliament when the new Bill is debated with West Country MPs likely to be very focused on anything they view as damaging to their area. 30 Conservative MPs have already voiced their opposition to APD being devolved to Wales because of the effect it would have on the West Country's economy if Bristol Airport is disadvantaged.

The cutting of the Severn Bridge tolls by half from 2018 is thought to be a nod towards Conservative elected representatives in Wales. The chancellor made some comment today about looking after the South West because of all the Conservative MPs returned at the last general election - 51 Conservative and four Labour in the South West Government region with, perversely in some ways, three of the four Labour MPs representing Bristol constituencies.

Whether that means he won't do anything to harm the region economically is possible but, more likely, it's merely a politician's rhetoric.

The other consideration he might take into account is the possibility of a legal challenge from the BRS owners if APD is devolved to Wales and is considered unfair competition. I have no idea if they would take that path but they have invested a huge amount of money in the airport.

Incidentally, I have no problem whatever with CWL growing (as it currently is and good luck to it for the future) so long as the competition is based on a level playing field and not skewed through one-sided taxation decrees, or public money issues.

Currently, the WAG seems to be acting properly as a state owner of CWL but a point about APD devolution would mean the owners of CWL would be setting their own APD rates. That alone seems to me to be grounds for at least serious legal advice on competition issues.

Addendum

Today's Budget paved the way for a Metro Mayor for the Greater Bristol area (Bristol, South Gloucestershire, North Somerset and Bath/Northeast Somerset) which, if agreed to locally, would mean many powers being devolved from central government - a sort of mini Northern Powerhouse.

In principle I think this is a good idea because Bristol has long been left behind by the urban sprawl around it with the city's boundaries not extended for 50 years. This means that there is a physical city of about 700,000 people but the municipal city is under 500,000 with the current local authorities rarely agreeing about anything of importance.

However, my concern is APD. One of the options the government suggested for compensating English airports was to create devolved regions, with APD one of the taxes to be devolved. The snag is that the government will reduce its grants by the the amount of APD that an airport generates. With Wales CWL generates probably no more than £5-6 million a year and if the WAG chooses to reduce it to nil their multi billion pound budget could cope.

BRS generates far more than this in APD (5-7 times the amount of CWL) and a Greater Bristol devolved region simply could not afford to lose that sort of money if it chose to reduce APD to nil. I fear the government will say that the option is there and if Greater Bristol declines it they can't moan if the WAG proceeds with a nil APD in Wales.

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Metro-mayo ... story.html

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Early indications suggest that Thomson will reinstate the Florida and Mexico weekly charter flights in summer 2017.

If they do it will cast an interesting spotlight on the Wales APD devolution debate. There is a strong argument in Wales that if long haul APD is devolved (as recommended by the Silk Commission) it would not not disadvantage BRS because they don't have any long haul routes. This of course ignores the likelihood that long haul APD devolution would prevent BRS getting any in the future, not to mention the current long haul services via European hubs which still attract the British long haul APD rate.

Furthermore, if long haul APD was devolved and as a result Thomson switched their long haul routes from BRS to CWL the BRS owners' position would be strengthened if they decided to mount a legal challenge on unfair competition grounds.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

A bit of a Shocker

Apparently one of the major Sunday newspapers will be carrying an article this weekend about ‘secret talks’ that have been taking place over the past few months between the Westminster and Welsh governments and the owners of Bristol and Cardiff airports (the latter is owned by the Welsh government of course) regarding a plan to rationalise the use of the two airports.

Press sources suggest that CWL would become the major airport for the Severnside region with, it is hoped, a growing list of long haul routes with BRS playing a secondary role although it would still have some services.

Reasonable steps would be taken to safeguard the jobs of all workers at both airports with what is described as ‘exceptionally generous relocation or travel packages’ for those who chose either to move home or travel daily to a new work location.

If the plan did come to fruition both airports would enter into a common part private, part public ownership. It’s believed that the current BRS owners would receive a very large percentage of the shareholding in the new company in recognition of the outlay they have already expended at BRS, with the Wales Government owning the remainder of the company.

Looking to how the venture might work is practice the Sunday newspaper article is expected to say that CWL would feature all long haul routes and many of the important business connections whilst BRS, with its huge pool of well-off and often older leisure travellers, would effectively become the charter flight airport of the Severnside region. Land at the BRS site no longer needed for airport purposes would be put to other uses with a park and ride site for Bristol one of the favoured suggestions.

For many years CWL has languished behind BRS and it is felt in both UK and Welsh government circles that Wales, being a separate and increasingly autonomous country, should feature an airport worthy of the name. BRS, on the other hand, is one of many airports in England and there is not the same nationalistic fervour in South West England to possess a thriving airport as there is in Wales.

On a number of occasions, according to the Sunday newspaper article, the point was made at the so-called secret meetings that the Bristol region was an exceptionally successful one and the downgrading of an airport in its midst would have a minimal negative effect on the booming economy, if it had any effect at all. With airports such as Heathrow and Birmingham well placed, and smaller ones at Exeter and Southampton also within range of parts of the BRS core catchment, the region already has a myriad of choices.

One of the crucial arguments was thought to be that of the Wales First Minister who has said many time that the promotion of CWL is not a vanity project. He is also on record as saying that in the past he has been embarrassed when overseas visitors have used the airport and will do anything it takes to improve matters. He seems to believe that an eye-catching airport and an eye-catching capital city are what marks out a country as being able to play with the big boys. Some critics perhaps unkindly retort, ‘and to hell with the rest of the country that sees little of the largesse bestowed on the capital city region’.

Liam Fox and other prominent Tory opponents of APD devolution to Wales have been consulted on Privy Counsellor terms (although they are not all privy counsellors) and are thought to be broadly in favour of the plan which would see the removal a huge impediment to the Conservative government as it would be an ingenious way of solving their APD devolution dilemma. The idea really is an extension of the talks that have been taking place for the past couple of years between the Bristol and Cardiff councils looking to form a Severnside ‘powerhouse’ by working together in all sorts of spheres. The newspaper article will report that a minority view favours moving the Bristol region into Wales which would have the effect of improving the overall Welsh economy by leaps and bounds at a stroke. That might provoke a further debate as to which city should then be Wales’s capital: perhaps in the new-found spirit of co-operation they would have joint capitals. It’s thought that a final decision on the plan will be made by this time next year.

 

[Severn]

A bit of a Shocker

I have heard similar in the pipeline, and apparently they want to push it all through so it will become effective 1 year from today, April 1st 2017...

 

[Seasider]

What happened to the Government's "market forces" philosophy?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Not sure about market forces but there is certainly an element of parafooling as can be seen with the amended post now that the sun is well over the yardarm.

A bit of a Shocker

Apparently one of the major Sunday newspapers will be carrying an article this weekend about ‘secret talks’ that have been taking place over the past few months between the Westminster and Welsh governments and the owners of Bristol and Cardiff airports (the latter is owned by the Welsh government of course) regarding a plan to rationalise the use of the two airports.

Press sources suggest that CWL would become the major airport for the Severnside region with, it is hoped, a growing list of long haul routes with BRS playing a secondary role although it would still have some services.

Reasonable steps would be taken to safeguard the jobs of all workers at both airports with what is described as ‘exceptionally generous relocation or travel packages’ for those who chose either to move home or travel daily to a new work location.

If the plan did come to fruition both airports would enter into a common part private, part public ownership. It’s believed that the current BRS owners would receive a very large percentage of the shareholding in the new company in recognition of the outlay they have already expended at BRS, with the Wales Government owning the remainder of the company.

Looking to how the venture might work is practice the Sunday newspaper article is expected to say that CWL would feature all long haul routes and many of the important business connections whilst BRS, with its huge pool of well-off and often older leisure travellers, would effectively become the charter flight airport of the Severnside region. Land at the BRS site no longer needed for airport purposes would be put to other uses with a park and ride site for Bristol one of the favoured suggestions.

For many years CWL has languished behind BRS and it is felt in both UK and Welsh government circles that Wales, being a separate and increasingly autonomous country, should feature an airport worthy of the name. BRS, on the other hand, is one of many airports in England and there is not the same nationalistic fervour in South West England to possess a thriving airport as there is in Wales.

On a number of occasions, according to the Sunday newspaper article, the point was made at the so-called secret meetings that the Bristol region was an exceptionally successful one and the downgrading of an airport in its midst would have a minimal negative effect on the booming economy, if it had any effect at all. With airports such as Heathrow and Birmingham well placed, and smaller ones at Exeter and Southampton also within range of parts of the BRS core catchment, the region already has a myriad of choices.

One of the crucial arguments was thought to be that of the Wales First Minister who has said many time that the promotion of CWL is not a vanity project. He is also on record as saying that in the past he has been embarrassed when overseas visitors have used the airport and will do anything it takes to improve matters. He seems to believe that an eye-catching airport and an eye-catching capital city are what marks out a country as being able to play with the big boys. Some critics perhaps unkindly retort, ‘and to hell with the rest of the country that sees little of the largesse bestowed on the capital city region’.

Liam Fox and other prominent Tory opponents of APD devolution to Wales have been consulted on Privy Counsellor terms (although they are not all privy counsellors) and are thought to be broadly in favour of the plan which would see the removal a huge impediment to the Conservative government as it would be an ingenious way of solving their APD devolution dilemma. The idea really is an extension of the talks that have been taking place for the past couple of years between the Bristol and Cardiff councils looking to form a Severnside ‘powerhouse’ by working together in all sorts of spheres. The newspaper article will report that a minority view favours moving the Bristol region into Wales which would have the effect of improving the overall Welsh economy by leaps and bounds at a stroke. That might provoke a further debate as to which city should then be Wales’s capital: perhaps in the new-found spirit of co-operation they would have joint capitals. It’s thought that a final decision on the plan will be made by this time next year.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Brilliant TLY

 

[TheLocalYokel]

One of the Hitler rants, this time at a BRS board meeting.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

http://www.bristolpost.co.uk/Bristo...pular-tavern/story-29301741-detail/story.html

Watch what happens to your car when you park at Bristol Airport Tavern

Another example of cars apparently being driven illegally when parked in unofficial airport car parks. I remember a few years ago one of the tv stations did a programme on this sort of thing. It wasn't BRS on that occasion.