Fly bmi

[whoshotjimmi]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

I beg to differ about the connections. There are a few destinations in Africa that are otherwise unserved from most Eurpoean countries, and the odd star alliance carrier, but that is all. It simply just does not have the range of desinations that its rivals has - crowded or not.

 

[wawkrk]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

You have to only consider Star Alliance members of course for frequent flyers.
The Star Alliance members below fly to-
80 destinations in Euope
33 destinations in the USA
25 destinations in Africa
11 destinations in Asia

Hardly a poor selection is it?

Brussels Airlines
ADRIA
Aegean
Air Canada
Air China
Air New Zealand
ANA
Austrian
Blue1
Continental
Croatia Airlines
Lufthansa
SAS
Singapore Airlines
South African Airways
Spanair
Swiss
TAM
TAP
Thai International
Turkish Airlines
UNITED
US AIRWAYS

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

I'm afraid I will have to reject your bonfire once again.

Not all the airlines you list use Brussels. Brussels does NOT have a wide selection of long haul flights. A quick look at their website is proof enough of this. We can pretty much rule out nearly all of their European routes in terms of connections as nearly all of them are available from Manchester/LBA/DSA/LPL. Many of the US routes are also available from Manchester.

My questions to you are these. How many of the routes serviced by star alliance that are currently available at Brussels are of interest to LBA pax? As a HUB, how much traffic does it steal from Amstersdam, Frankfurt, London, Paris and Dubai? How many pax from the LBA catchment area fly via Brussels rather than Amsterdam or Manchester? As a proportion, I would imagine it is tiny.

My point is this. The choice of routes via Brussels is not particularly impressive considering the choices everywhere else. So the fact that BMI see the Brussels route as a success must indicate that there is a decent amount of point to point traffic. If Frankfurt were to find its way into the LBA repertoire, I would think that any remaining transit passengers would leave Brussels althogther.

 

[White Heather]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

Back when Sabena operated the route, this was LBA's fastest growing route, rapidly increasing 3 or 4 BAe 146's per day, and usually carrying full or almost full loads. At that time, the vast majority of the passengers were interlining through to worldwide destinations, mostly operated by Sabena themselves of course.

Now, it may be that there are more options from other airports and that the interlining passenger will use Star Alliance. It may also be the case that Brussels offers less options than AMS, FRA, CDG etc - I wouldn't know and clearly yourself and wawkrk have diffent views on that. However, it would surely be wrong to write off Brussels for interlining or long haul just because the other hub airports are bigger and offer more. When I am looking for such flights I look at all options to find the best times, fares, airline and even aircraft types. When I flew to Canada I explored options from Heathrow, Amsterdam, Paris, Frankfurt, Brussels and Zurich but chose Heathrow in the end.

I don't think the demand would be there to the degree it was in the Sabena days - things have changed since then, but there will be a demand for BRU irrespective of whether LBA gets a FRA route or not - in my opinion.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

The aviation world is a very different place now than it was in 2001 (when Sabena was declared bankrupt). Using them as an example, they flew to 99 destinations at the time of closure. Brussels airlines today flies to 66. Admittedly, there are star alliance connections but, as a whole, the Brussels airport network is not what it was back then.

To take another example, in 2001, Ryanair flew 5m pax. Today, it is closer to 65m. The point to point options within Europe are now huge. Most European travel can be completed without the need to connect. There are exceptions but LBA is not one (due to proximity to MAN). And, in most cases, there is a low cost option. For example, point to point, one can travel LBA to Brussels on the incredibly high cost BMI or from MAN to Brussels on the far cheaper FlyBe.

Dubai and Emirates have emerged as further, quality competition to the Middle and Far East and Australia having grown from 5.5m pax in 2001 to over 30m in 2010. IAG, Lufthansa and Air France/KLM have consolidated during the same period through their HUBS at Madrid, Heathrow, CDG, Schipol and Frankfurt. And with the opening of Brandenburg next year, I would expect that position to be further solidified.

I'm not saying we should write off Brussels. But it has certainly been left behind. And, certainly, much better choices lay elsewhere. Indeed, the airport is still recovering from the loss of Sabena 10 years ago. It does have one thing in its favour. A nice new terminal building which has led to decent growth over the last 12 months. It is finally getting back to roughly where it was pre 2001.

Which leads me back to BMI and LBA. Despite everything mentioned above, the route has remained well served, even during all the BMI cut backs etc. Which means that LBA - Brussels traffic is strong. Certainly rich enough to pay the ridiculous fees.

 

[a300boy]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

In the days of Sabena I used the service a lot as I had my operating base in Brussels. They gave us staff travel rates in business class, so it was a very nice service, thank you very much. I also had a friend who travelled Lba-Brussels-Malpensa on a regular basis and his ticket was very little more than the price of Lba-Brussels.
Brussels now has lots of Jet Airways flights to the states and India 6 or 8 each day.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

I agree that there are some decent routes out of Brussels. The Jet Airways flights, however, do not come under the Star Alliance though they do share a codeshare agreement with Brussels Airlines. But that leads me back to my other point, how many people connect to those flights from LBA?

 

[wawkrk]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

whoshotjimmi

LBA only provides one onward connection flight besides Brussels, and DSA non. If you were flying to South Africa for example from Paris and your Jet2 flight was delayed and your connection missed, you would have to buy another ticket. If you book an onward connection with an alliance, then all your flights are guaranteed. The system does not allow you to book if the connections are too tight. KLM have this synchronised perfectly to allow for the waves of UK flights to make the connections. My flight from LBA to Brussels arrived late one morning. A car was waiting at the bottom of the steps, they found my suitcase and drove me to my waiting aircraft. Could not happen nowadays I suppose.
I am not exactly up to date on Brussels I admit. The routes and airlines shown came from the airport website when I clicked on destinations. Having checked further, there seems to be nowhere the number of destinations that were available 15-20 years ago so you are correct. As you say, a lot of the routes were lost when Sabena collapsed.
I was there a few weeks ago from Krakow and there did seem to be a lot of flights, especially to India. I agree with Heather there are some decent flight connections though.
I do not like to use Manchester and have not done so for many years. Especially when I travel from my UK home in Bramhope where LBA is my neighbour. The cost for many business travellers is not that important, only convenience. The attraction of hub airports is biased towards frequent flyers. Frankfurt loses out because of Luftys policy to force us to use Manchester.
Now that Heathrow is no longer available from LBA, that only leaves Amsterdam and Brussels with onward connections. Not the kind of risky connections where you have to run about 2 miles to the baggage reclaim then check in again.
I agree that point to point connections are growing but then so will the demand for business class as flights become longer. If no business class then hub airports gain.
Also, I know for a fact that quite a number of Amsterdam passengers have onward flights that are also available direct from LBA. Their flights are paid for by the company and they earn 4 flights worth of air miles by using KLM. Although there are probably more passengers travelling long haul than most realise. Air France – KLM has 17 million FF card holders who do their utmost to find as many partner connections as possible.
I remember one time my flight to Amsterdam from LBA was cancelled so we were all standing around the ticket desk. The Servisair lady was asking each of us what was our final destination. Not one said Amsterdam, almost all were Far East, South Africa, Australia and North and South America.
I also use Jet2 and Ryanair quite a lot, again for convenience on point to point and I think they are ok except for Ryanair’s unreserved seat policy and gate stampede which may change. Jet2 is much better and as their punch line say's, more friendly.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

To be totally honest, I do not believe Brussels is effective as a hub anyway from LBA considering the number of flights. There are definitely not enough for it to be a good connection - only 2 flights on a weekday and 1 over the weekend. Not good enough really as a feeder service. The whole service is geared now towards point to point business type pax. I think it highlights, as much as anything, that Brussels is not a particularly big draw for LBA customers and, therefore, my original point.

 

[Aviador]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

When Sabena became Brussels Airlines, wasn't the airlines long haul operation significantly reduced? Before the 9/11 atrocities Sabina had a super service from LBA but there was a huge array of onward destinations available to choose from which is now significantly reduced. BRU was always extremely popular for whatever reason, I have no doubt that if Brussels Airlines can grow, it will have no problem reestablishing much of it's former route network.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

To be quite honest Aviador, I would not be surprised if Brussels and Brussels airport never returned to the level of service they had in the Sabena days. The world has, frankly, just moved on too much since then. I also doubt whether Brussels Airlines has the ability to expand much more. There are question marks regarding their financial stability and, with the Eurozone issue, consolidation could be all that is available to them. Though, I will say, the new terminal has increased pax numbers at Brussels.

In terms of LBA, it will only become viable once again if BMI lose the route and Brussels Airlines take it up with 3 or 4 departures a day.

 

[lbaspotter]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

Heads up

Rumours are going around tonight that Lufthansa has a big announcement planned for tomorrow, Thursday, December 22nd, 2011 regarding the break-up of its UK based bmi british midland international group.
Which includes Aberdeen based bmi regional whom operate services out of LBA and its 2 bigger brothers, London Heathrow based bmi mainline and low cost off shoot East Midlands based bmibaby.

 

[Aviador]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

Thanks for the heads up. That's one we need to keep an eye on.

 

[tleeds]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

I don't know how we can tell whether this will be good news or bad news for LBA... :dunno:

 

[lbia]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

Personally I think bmi mainline will be absorbed into British Airways in one form or another.

bmi baby could probably carry on in it's current form for now, I keep thinking Jet2 would be interested but the way things are going at East Midlands - why would Jet2 need to buy bmibaby when they (so far) are making a killing by luring loyal baby passengers away. I think it would be much more cost effective just to purchase a handful more 737's and keep on expanding at EMA, bmi baby could not really compete.

bmi regional is a tricky one, there were rumours of scottish investors (?) taking control of it? Don't flybe still have loads of aircraft due over the next few years? A lot of regionals routes would fit nicely in flybe's portfolio, perhaps a merger and phase out of the Embraer 145's with the 175's on order instead? I hope this does happen as this would be the only ray of sunshine for LBA.

I won't hold my breath, as i'm sure many others won't too. This is British Midland bmi international joker no idea airline we're talking about! :crazy:

 

[SNOWMAN]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

could the new owners of bmi regional be a new scottish company called granite i wonder?

 

[Aviador]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

The BMI Regional pilots seem dead certain that that is the case. What that will mean for LBA is anyones guess if that is the case.

 

[tleeds]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

It seems the inevitable has been confirmed today. Lufthansa have sold BMI to AIG.

[textarea]British Airways owner IAG buys BMI from Lufthansa

(The deal will give IAG control of more than half the landing slots at Heathrow)

British Airways owner IAG has agreed a binding deal to buy BMI from Lufthansa for £172.5m, but has warned the deal could lead to job losses.

IAG, which also owns Spanish airline Iberia, will gain 56 more slots at Heathrow airport in the deal.

The airlines said they hoped the takeover would be completed in the first three months of next year.

The deal remains subject to clearance by competition bodies, and rival Virgin has said it will oppose the tie-up.

Lufthansa had signed a non-exclusive agreement with IAG in November, but had also been in talks with Virgin.

In a statement, Sir Richard Branson, chairman of Virgin Group, said: "BA is already dominant at Heathrow and their removal of BMI just tightens their stranglehold at the world's busiest international airport.

"We will fight this monopoly every step of the way as we think it is bad for the consumer, bad for the industry and bad for Britain."

BMI employs more than 3,600 staff, but reported a £153m loss in the year to 2010.

IAG chief executive Willie Walsh said: "Given the scale of BMI's losses, there is an urgent need to restructure the business.

"Unfortunately, this will mean some job losses but we will secure a significant number of high quality jobs here in the UK and create similar new jobs in the future.

Mr Walsh said the restructuring would be carried out over a three year period.

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-16298167[/textarea]

 

[Moo2009]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

Looks like the BMI service to EDI is down to one a day operated by the LBA based machine

 

[Aviador]

Re: British Midland International (BMI)

Looks like the BMI service to EDI is down to one a day operated by the LBA based machine

No use as an ornament to a business passenger (the major users of this type of route)