Airport Security, Immigration & Border Control

[KARFA]

Shoe removal is not usually required at most Uk airports - typically they only ask that boots are removed. Are you saying LBA does require it now? (They didn’t in the past).

 

[KARFA]

Report from a colleague of mine who was off to ALC this morning for work.

Leeds Bradford airport security queue was long this morning (out the building) but moved quite quickly- I was through in about 1hr15. Fast track had no queue at all and they were using that for Jet2 passengers near their boarding time. The main queue has now gone down a lot - a real early morning rush. But I guess it all depends on the day!

 

[Aviador]

Shoe removal is not usually required at most Uk airports - typically they only ask that boots are removed. Are you saying LBA does require it now? (They didn’t in the past).

I am no longer involved in airport security so I am not privy to the current NCASP or local requirements. I can assure you that there will be at least some requirement for shoes to be screened. it is unlikely only boots are being asked to be removed. I don't wish to discuss this in any more detail, you will have to accept my experience in this matter.

 

[KARFA]

I am no longer involved in airport security so I am not privy to the current NCASP or local requirements. I can assure you that there will be at least some requirement for shoes to be screened. it is unlikely only boots are being asked to be removed. I don't wish to discuss this in any more detail, you will have to accept my experience in this matter.

You have to accept I am going through airport security at airports across the UK (and beyond) on a weekly basis. It is quite simply not correct to say shoes and footwear in general must be removed at UK airports (at least not in any I have been in and that is quite a few different ones). Generally in the USA footwear must be removed by default (unless you have TSAPre), but that is not the case in the UK. This includes LBA and I have many hundreds of visits there pre covid over 5/6 years, and a few over the last two years including one only a few weeks ago. Generally the requirement is if your footwear goes above the ankle it should be removed, but if it doesn't you can keep them on.

So either you think I am constantly encountering rogue security agents misapplying CAA requirements in the UK, or it is possible you may be out of touch with what the rules are and what is happening.

I assume the machines are capable of detecting right down to ground level. In fact when it comes to the metal detectors used at LBA some of the calibration when they are turned on is having a security agent go through it several times with something strapped below their ankle to check it does detect it.

EDIT: just for some extra context, there was a period from around April 2020 to mid 2021 when LHR did require all footwear to be removed, The reason for this was to reduce the likelihood of being pinged by the detector and therefore reducing the need for close contact afterwards due to covid. Once mid 2021 it has gone back to the default of footwear staying on.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...that-helps-passengers-skip-the-queues-3703736

YEP been YEP. Mind you I think this is come from Jet2 PR department as other local rags also have similar headlines. It's not brand new but it's nice to see that they have pushed this. Especially with some of the target audience that they are aiming for - Families and over 50's/60's who will worry.

I don't think the problem is the check in opening times (previous Summers, queues for check in at Jet2/LBA were lapped around Cafe Ritazza, back out the main door but moved very quickly 20/25 min max queue time). But rather the amount of people using the airport with alot of departures prior to 7am. Today Jet2 had 2 737-800s and 3 737-300's all out before 0615 (822 people). Ryanair have all 3 going before 7am most days also.

As I've said and will keep saying, security with technology as advanced as it is, should be one of the easiest processes now. Plenty of people I speak to in who have travelled say we are the only country where you are required to take every bloody item out of your hand luggage and put it in separate trays (power mad security at LBA). It should be easy - put your bag on let it scan. If airports overseas, if airports as close as Amsterdam and Paris, have this technology why don't we?

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Available space must come into it.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Parents currently passing thru LBA for 16.45 ALC flight, they tell me it took them roughly 45mins to pass thru security so not too bad, my mothers words to me on the fone were "get me outta this hell hole" as the terminal was at bursting point haha

 

[Flightlevel330]

https://www.yorkshireeveningpost.co...that-helps-passengers-skip-the-queues-3703736

YEP been YEP. Mind you I think this is come from Jet2 PR department as other local rags also have similar headlines. It's not brand new but it's nice to see that they have pushed this. Especially with some of the target audience that they are aiming for - Families and over 50's/60's who will worry.

I don't think the problem is the check in opening times (previous Summers, queues for check in at Jet2/LBA were lapped around Cafe Ritazza, back out the main door but moved very quickly 20/25 min max queue time). But rather the amount of people using the airport with alot of departures prior to 7am. Today Jet2 had 2 737-800s and 3 737-300's all out before 0615 (822 people). Ryanair have all 3 going before 7am most days also.

As I've said and will keep saying, security with technology as advanced as it is, should be one of the easiest processes now. Plenty of people I speak to in who have travelled say we are the only country where you are required to take every bloody item out of your hand luggage and put it in separate trays (power mad security at LBA). It should be easy - put your bag on let it scan. If airports overseas, if airports as close as Amsterdam and Paris, have this technology why don't we?

In response to the question regarding the scanning equipment and why Leeds does not have these yet. They cost upwards of one million pounds a machine. Larger airports can absorb this cost, and most airports overseas (not all) are state run, making it even easier for them to justify. It’s been a long time since I spoke to anyone at the airport but I believe plans are in place to have these machines, but it’s a huge outlay for a business only just through the pandemic. State run airports in this country can buy them, but that’s at the local tax park expense….. I’ll say no more

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

In response to the question regarding the scanning equipment and why Leeds does not have these yet. They cost upwards of one million pounds a machine. Larger airports can absorb this cost, and most airports overseas (not all) are state run, making it even easier for them to justify. It’s been a long time since I spoke to anyone at the airport but I believe plans are in place to have these machines, but it’s a huge outlay for a business only just through the pandemic. State run airports in this country can buy them, but that’s at the local tax park expense….. I’ll say no more

Again comes into my earlier posts - incompetent government should be funding things like this. We should be transforming aviation as we are/were the world leaders in the industry, we have Rolls Royce, etc.

Instead they waste £37 billion on a test and trace system for the flu. It doesn't even have to be for all airports, and at full costs, subsidise 50% of the cost for airports doing 3mpppa a year historically pre 2019.

Or the other point I have. You got to speculate to accumulate. Imagine the money the airport are loosing from commission(% of sales) from Duty Free etc with queues as they are. If they spent this money quickened up the process then they would make it back. As airports charge a % of sales in terms of rental for all shops etc.

 

[Aviador]

You have to accept I am going through airport security at airports across the UK (and beyond) on a weekly basis. It is quite simply not correct to say shoes and footwear in general must be removed at UK airports (at least not in any I have been in and that is quite a few different ones). Generally in the USA footwear must be removed by default (unless you have TSAPre), but that is not the case in the UK. This includes LBA and I have many hundreds of visits there pre covid over 5/6 years, and a few over the last two years including one only a few weeks ago. Generally the requirement is if your footwear goes above the ankle it should be removed, but if it doesn't you can keep them on.

So either you think I am constantly encountering rogue security agents misapplying CAA requirements in the UK, or it is possible you may be out of touch with what the rules are and what is happening.

I assume the machines are capable of detecting right down to ground level. In fact when it comes to the metal detectors used at LBA some of the calibration when they are turned on is having a security agent go through it several times with something strapped below their ankle to check it does detect it.

EDIT: just for some extra context, there was a period from around April 2020 to mid 2021 when LHR did require all footwear to be removed, The reason for this was to reduce the likelihood of being pinged by the detector and therefore reducing the need for close contact afterwards due to covid. Once mid 2021 it has gone back to the default of footwear staying on.

@KARFA Please don't misquote me. There is a quote function if you care to use it. I actually said there will be "at least some requirement for shoes to be screened."

Depending on equipment rules can differ at different airports which is why frequent flyers such as yourself often complain of lack of consistency at airports.

Just because you are a frequent flyer doesn't give you a professional understanding in aviation security rules.

Why do you constantly ridicule my knowledge and try to make out that I am somehow wrong. I worked in the job for nearly 15 years so I can speak with a good understanding of how things work. What I can't and won't do is elaborate any further as I am not prepared to give you a breakdown on how things work.

 

[Aviador]

In response to the question regarding the scanning equipment and why Leeds does not have these yet. They cost upwards of one million pounds a machine. Larger airports can absorb this cost, and most airports overseas (not all) are state run, making it even easier for them to justify. It’s been a long time since I spoke to anyone at the airport but I believe plans are in place to have these machines, but it’s a huge outlay for a business only just through the pandemic. State run airports in this country can buy them, but that’s at the local tax park expense….. I’ll say no more

It isn't just the money it is the space required. Something LBA very much lacks.

 

[KARFA]

@KARFA Please don't misquote me. There is a quote function if you care to use it. I actually said there will be "at least some requirement for shoes to be screened."

Depending on equipment rules can differ at different airports which is why frequent flyers such as yourself often complain of lack of consistency at airports.

Just because you are a frequent flyer doesn't give you a professional understanding in aviation security rules.

Why do you constantly ridicule my knowledge and try to make out that I am somehow wrong. I worked in the job for nearly 15 years so I can speak with a good understanding of how things work. What I can't and won't do is elaborate any further as I am not prepared to give you a breakdown on how things work.

Thanks. I am glad we agree at last that by default footwear does not have to be removed at security at UK airports. There may be exceptions due to equipment at some airports, although I haven't come across one of them yet and LBA certainly isn't one of them. There is no such rule that all footwear must be removed in the UK, it would be incorrect to say that and I am glad we agree.

Also I actually find UK airports to be pretty consistent actually, and usually pretty much standard across all Europe. The notable exceptions tend to be those airports like AMS where they have new scanners and everything can be left in the bag.

 

[Aviador]

I am glad we agree at last that by default footwear does not have to be removed at security at UK airports.

By default *NOT ALL* footwear has to be removed. That is not the same as "does NOT have to be removed".

 

[KARFA]

By default *NOT ALL* footwear has to be removed. That is not the same as "does NOT have to be removed".

I agree, there is no rule in the UK that *all* footwear has to be removed.

 

[tonysmith]

Just been through security this afternoon took me 35 minutes
But there is a large sign as you wait in line saying high heels must be removed

 

[Aviador]

Just been through security this afternoon took me 35 minutes
But there is a large sign as you wait in line saying high heels must be removed

That isn't necessarily due to the above discussion. The design of heels means they contain a metal rod for the stability of the shoes structure. There is enough metal in most high heel shoes to activate the WTMD.

 

[LBA4EVER]

Just been through security this afternoon took me 35 minutes
But there is a large sign as you wait in line saying high heels must be removed

Did you manage to remove your high heels then!

 

[tonysmith]

That isn't necessarily due to the above discussion. The design of heels means they contain a metal rod for the stability of the shoes structure. There is enough metal in most high heel shoes to activate the WTMD.

I’m only saying what it says on the tin

 

[tonysmith]

Did you manage to remove your high heels then!

My feet r killing my

 

[GDC1]

In the 6 years since my knee replacment Ive had to remove my shoes after the 1st scanner due to alarm going off ,then have full body scan and then manual search shoes then scanned seperatley.