Air India

[justplanecrazy]

I think it landed at BHX

 

[Ray Finkle]

It definitely did land at BHX :s_yes

 

[User0001]

It did land at BHX, I was more commenting on the fact it entered the UK at a more northern point than it has done in the past, yet the EK19 to MAN came from the Dover area.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Definitely an interesting routing, almost reaching Sheffield before turning south. It's not one I've seen before and both EK37 and PK791 which arrived shortly after took a more 'normal' route over the Kent area.

Apologies for the picture I can never get it right in paint.

 

[Hassaan]

One EK37 a while ago took a strange route over Perry Barr side I think.

Maybe the AI routing is to do with the airport/runway being busy at the time?

 

[thunderchild]

I saw the AI coming in quite low over Cannock Chase and did think to myself what on earth is it doing here?

 

[Hassaan]

Generally the flight path for arrival on RWY15 begins in the Little Bromwich area.

I think Air India only intend to operate the 788 into BHX, for now anyway. Are the loads better or worse compared to when they began operating into BHX in 2005 with the 772?

 

[Ray Finkle]

Are the loads better or worse compared to when they began operating into BHX in 2005 with the 772?

I've been through the CAA stats and compared from August 2005-February 2006 to August 2013-February 2014.

Aug 2005- 2001 pax Aug 2013- 7391 pax
Sept 2005- 2050 pax Sept 2013- 6641 pax
Oct 2005- 3309 pax Oct 2013- 7050 pax
Nov 2005- 3008 pax Nov 2013- 7108 pax
Dec 2005- 1529 pax Dec 2013- 7330 pax
Jan 2006- 1945 pax Jan 2014- 7229 pax
Feb 2006- 2763 pax Feb 2014- 6736 pax

The annual figure for 2005 (May-Dec) was 24862, the figure for 2013 (Aug-Dec) was 35518. For comparison 2006 which was the first full year saw 41611, so this time around five months of operation has seen almost as many pax as a whole year back then. Obviously you have to take into account that in 2005/6 it was a split load with YYZ, albeit with a larger aircraft, and as well as Turkmenistan there was also competition from the likes of Uzbekistan and Mahan whereas now only the former remains.

For reference in 2005 YYZ saw 32422 pax, in 2006 YYZ saw 45054 pax, in 2013 YYZ saw a shocking 11382 pax, although I cannot remember what Canadian Affair were offering back then.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi thre Ray, if these pax figures of 6 or 7 thousand, aren't these figures great or brilliant at all....andyc

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there ray, if its more than 11,382 or above, then to me these figures sound brilliant and show what grow there is in demand....andyc

 

[Hassaan]

Are the loads better or worse compared to when they began operating into BHX in 2005 with the 772?

I've been through the CAA stats and compared from August 2005-February 2006 to August 2013-February 2014.

Aug 2005- 2001 pax Aug 2013- 7391 pax
Sept 2005- 2050 pax Sept 2013- 6641 pax
Oct 2005- 3309 pax Oct 2013- 7050 pax
Nov 2005- 3008 pax Nov 2013- 7108 pax
Dec 2005- 1529 pax Dec 2013- 7330 pax
Jan 2006- 1945 pax Jan 2014- 7229 pax
Feb 2006- 2763 pax Feb 2014- 6736 pax

The annual figure for 2005 (May-Dec) was 24862, the figure for 2013 (Aug-Dec) was 35518. For comparison 2006 which was the first full year saw 41611, so this time around five months of operation has seen almost as many pax as a whole year back then. Obviously you have to take into account that in 2005/6 it was a split load with YYZ, albeit with a larger aircraft, and as well as Turkmenistan there was also competition from the likes of Uzbekistan and Mahan whereas now only the former remains.

For reference in 2005 YYZ saw 32422 pax, in 2006 YYZ saw 45054 pax, in 2013 YYZ saw a shocking 11382 pax, although I cannot remember what Canadian Affair were offering back then.

Interesting stuff. Thanks for this.

I think most of the YYZ pax in 2006 was operated by Air India - Air Transat were only operating A310's back then, and of course once weekly (or was it twice?) as opposed to Air India's 6 weekly 777. In 2005/6 there was a bigger aircraft but more competition - I think Air India's presence was made more welcome in August 2013 because of how beneficial the earlier service was to people.

Why was there low pax in Nov/Dec 2005 compared to other months? And that does include all legs? Probably deflated by the YYZ leg not performing as well as the ATQ/DEL-BHX leg.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Air Transat have been on and off for so long I can't remember what they were doing back then, there was also a season where we had Thomas Cook doing a weekly flight but again I don't remember what year that was.

Why was there low pax in Nov/Dec 2005 compared to other months?

:dunno:

And that does include all legs?

The figures quoted are just between BHX and India.

Hi thre Ray, if these pax figures of 6 or 7 thousand, aren't these figures great or brilliant at all....andyc

They are very good considering in the first 7 months of operation there hasn't been a load factor below 80%.

Hi there ray, if its more than 11,382 or above, then to me these figures sound brilliant and show what grow there is in demand....andyc

That's 11,382 for the whole year not just a month.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there Ray, after looking at the Air India pax figures again more closely from August 2013 when they restarted up the connection between from Birmingham to Delhi & Amritsar to Jan 2014 this year, thats a six months period, the pax figures add up to 42,749, which to me sound good news for the first six months, but if you use these figures again six months later on a predicted scale, you could be looking at pax figures for 12 months of 85,498...which to me sound brilliant news for the first 12 months of a reconnected service direct to india. All we can hope now is that this is a starting platform, to enable better and improved growth for this connection service that can only get stronger as the months and years go on. This will then demonstrate that Birmingham Airport has the capability to attract the airlines needed to provide this service, but also to make people with the West Midlands area and beyond understand that Birmingham Airport can do it if the demand is there....andyc

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there Ray, regarding my previous notes about Air India, also now the connection from Birmingham to Delhi & Amritsar has now been established and also feeding back good results and returns for the last six months from August 2013, i feel now that the route development team at Birmingham Airport need to start looking at other Indian cities like Mumbai with a population of 12 million, Bangalore 8 million, Hyderbad with just under 7 million population, these are the next routes that need to be explored and established. I also think ray that that airports route development team need to look at its exsisting airlines to expand further and open up new routes and see how they go..and if the rumour stating that Virgin airlines wants to come into Birmingham, then Keogh and his merry men need to offer Sir Richard and damm good deal just like they have done with Biman and China Southern Airlines to get him to start flights from Birmingham and then keep him there, and then other airlines might hopefully follow as well...i know its a big might, but what else have we got to loose....andyc

 

[Ray Finkle]

Mumbai is an interesting one, there's definitely no shortage of connecting pax, Lufthansa have said it's their second most popular connection from BHX after Beijing, but whether there is enough to run a stand alone service profitably I don't know. Two or three times a week could have potential. I don't see Bangalore or Hyderabad getting a direct link although Ahmedabad was rumoured to be a potential tag on a few years ago for the large Gujarati population of the East Midlands. I think Air India are aiming to create a hub at Delhi and short term this is where they will concentrate on.

China Southern are only operating a series of summer charter flights, BHX also had meetings with ANA to operate similar from Japan but they didn't happen. I know talks are on going (with them and I hear one other) but I'm not sure I've got the confidence in BHX to pull a scheduled link off.

The Virgin rumour came from their hierarchy visiting BHX a few months ago, if, and it's a big if, we do see them here it'll only be a leisure route to Florida.

As for Biman, I'm not expecting them to start in June, Mr Steele did a deal with BHX, he's now gone and most likely so is the deal.

 

[Hassaan]

Mumbai is an interesting one, there's definitely no shortage of connecting pax, Lufthansa have said it's their second most popular connection from BHX after Beijing, but whether there is enough to run a stand alone service profitably I don't know. Two or three times a week could have potential. I don't see Bangalore or Hyderabad getting a direct link although Ahmedabad was rumoured to be a potential tag on a few years ago for the large Gujarati population of the East Midlands. I think Air India are aiming to create a hub at Delhi and short term this is where they will concentrate on.

Air India don't currently operate to the UK (nor does any other airline) from Ahmedabad so it would be an interesting one if it does happen. Didn't Air India used to operate out of BHX to Mumbai? Because that's what the arrivals page on the BHX used to show (back in 2005). It was probably an extension to the existing DEL-ATQ-BHX service. If the Gujarati population of the Midlands is larger than that of London and taking other factors into account then I can see them potentially starting here first.

China Southern are only operating a series of summer charter flights, BHX also had meetings with ANA to operate similar from Japan but they didn't happen. I know talks are on going (with them and I hear one other) but I'm not sure I've got the confidence in BHX to pull a scheduled link off.

ANA? That's a bit of an odd choice. It could possibly sustain it though.

 

[Brum X]

ANA isnt such a mad choice, the japanese love tourist hotspots such as Straftford, Warwick Castle and of course our fine city of Birmingham.


They are doing similar charter flights like ours to China from Edinburgh this summer, so i could defo see them at BHX if these summer charters are going to become the norm every summer.

 

[Ray Finkle]

I don't remember BOM back in 2005, I thought it was just ATQ-DEL-BHX-YYZ-BHX-DEL-ATQ? Ahmedabad was rumoured to replace ATQ on one of the weekly flights but never did.

 

[Hassaan]

ANA isnt such a mad choice, the japanese love tourist hotspots such as Straftford, Warwick Castle and of course our fine city of Birmingham.

It's not a bad idea. Part of me thinks that they are unlikely to come to BHX unless the deal is good.

I don't remember BOM back in 2005, I thought it was just ATQ-DEL-BHX-YYZ-BHX-DEL-ATQ? Ahmedabad was rumoured to replace ATQ on one of the weekly flights but never did.

That's what the arrivals board was showing - I don't think they actually flew that route. Or, it was operated by another airline (although it terminated at a different stop). Ahmedabad could work but time will tell.

 

[Brummiegem]

If memory serves correctly the only time BOM has ever been served from BHX on a scheduled basis was way back in the early 80s,when AI used B707s.Also Moscow was a stop off point at this time as well.I think the routing was ATQ-BOM-Moscow-BHX.(not sure of the 3 letter code for Moscow).
In 2005 I think BOM appeared on departure boards as it was the alternate airport when DEL was fog-bound,as it very often is at certain times of the year.
I could be wrong so if anyone can confirm any of the above feel free to do so.
There is demand for BOM from BHX but a 2/3 times a week schedule could work but not sure of other Indian cities.