Flybe

[rmac]

I would not think that Jet2 at LBA would have worried Flybe about opening up new routes out of LBA, CDG for instance. The dash 8 has proved itself out of LBA to Belfast with very good load factors, in fact 5 daily from next Spring, even Dusseldorf had good loads similar to Newcastle. A 2 x Emb175 base at LBA I think would have worked very well and would have probably survived the recent Flybe/Connect cutbacks. It might have been beneficial for Jet2 to co-operate with Flybe on thin routes to Berlin and CDG ( 2xdaily with a Emb175) and others Dusseldorf included.

 

[Jerry]

2 x Emb175 base at LBA I think would have worked very well and would have probably survived the recent Flybe/Connect cutbacks. It might have been beneficial for Jet2 to co-operate with Flybe on thin routes to Berlin and CDG ( 2xdaily with a Emb175) and others Dusseldorf included.

I highly doubt that as not only are they cutting bases but they are cutting the fleet size to 7 hence they are being concentrated to MAN and BHX. LBA probably would've end up losing quite a few European services like CWL and DSA have done with a focus on what was there before.

 

[lbaspotter]

We all know why Flybe went to DSA with the project blackbird deal. The Money offered by Peel Group!

As far as I understand flybe were all set to come to LBA until they struck what seemed like a last minute deal with the Peel group to base at DSA instead.
The management team at LBA were taken by surprise and dumbfounded with flybe's decision when the DSA deal finally came to light, ATC/Airside op's at LBA had gone as far as marking out overnight parking stands for 2+ based Embrear aircraft.

 

[LBA4EVER]

We all know why Flybe went to DSA with the project blackbird deal. The Money offered by Peel Group!

As far as I understand flybe were all set to come to LBA until they struck what seemed like a last minute deal with the Peel group to base at DSA instead.
The management team at LBA were taken by surprise and dumbfounded with flybe's decision when the DSA deal finally came to light, ATC/Airside op's at LBA had gone as far as marking out overnight parking stands for 2+ based Embrear aircraft.

Its hard to believe that flybe just suddenly changed there mind and went to DSA instead of LBA! did no one at flybe go, hold on a minute here, we have done our research and LBA is by far going to be more successful!! Even though the dsa deal was better the aircraft need passengers on them and the right type of passenger that matches their biz model!

 

[paully]

Its hard to believe that flybe just suddenly changed there mind and went to DSA instead of LBA! did no one at flybe go, hold on a minute here, we have done our research and LBA is by far going to be more successful!! Even though the dsa deal was better the aircraft need passengers on them and the right type of passenger that matches their biz model!

Not really, looking at the `prevailing picture` of Flybe management(?) at that time its quite believable. They seemed to do rather a lot `on the hoof`..Probably why the Company nearly went under.

 

[stars&sids]

Flybe weren't doing OK at DSA. They absolutely weren't.

Well you can say that, but until you come up with some reasoning based on fact, we’re all having to accept your word for that aren’t we?

 

[David_itl]

I'm not privy to Flybe's numbers. However, the idea that they shut up shop at DSA but kept going at LBA indicates to me which was the profitable Yorkshire base for them. Given the replacement of E170s/E190s with DHC8s at other bases, you'd have thought they could still have soldiered on. If a 1 aircraft base was out of the question, they could always have done routes as a W-pattern from other airports.

 

[Rob c DSA]

I'm not privy to Flybe's numbers. However, the idea that they shut up shop at DSA but kept going at LBA indicates to me which was the profitable Yorkshire base for them. Given the replacement of E170s/E190s with DHC8s at other bases, you'd have thought they could still have soldiered on. If a 1 aircraft base was out of the question, they could always have done routes as a W-pattern from other airports.

Agree LBA makes more money I wonder how much though?

The fact that they decided to put two routes on sale at DSA with poor times really showed they has no intention of carrying on at both Yorkshire airports. For me it was more Virgin saw little point operating from DSA with little money to be made than it being a failure as some are suggesting. I don't think they would have gone for so long if that was the case, what does DSA offer Virgin though not a lot really probably less than any other airport that they operate from. It just goes to show yet again how airports are at the mercy of airlines and one pulling out has such a major effect on the said airport especially one the size of DSA. Every airport must be worried sick that further cuts will come in the near future.

 

[White Heather]

Flybe carried on at DSA as they were contracted to do. I was told by someone within the industry that they were far from happy with the loads out of DSA - hence the slow reduction in flights over time. They clearly thought they could make a go of it out of DSA despite the fact that various other airlines have failed to do so. Only TUi and Wizz have ventured into DSA and stayed for any length of time, which must mean something. If it is true that the loads were not meeting expectation, and on top of that the E195s were going, then the base didn't really have a long term future. I believe it was more a question of putting the E195s somewhere until they got rid of them and due to the offer made by DSA at the last minute, they opted to go there, despite (as I understood it) indicating to LBA they would be basing them there. Even if they had, the current situation may have led to the loss of routes or even the base at LBA. Different management, different ideas. One thing I have learned in my 50 years or so of being interested in aviation, is that it is an industry in which you can rely on absolutely nothing.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Flybe carried on at DSA as they were contracted to do. I was told by someone within the industry that they were far from happy with the loads out of DSA - hence the slow reduction in flights over time. They clearly thought they could make a go of it out of DSA despite the fact that various other airlines have failed to do so. Only TUi and Wizz have ventured into DSA and stayed for any length of time, which must mean something. If it is true that the loads were not meeting expectation, and on top of that the E195s were going, then the base didn't really have a long term future. I believe it was more a question of putting the E195s somewhere until they got rid of them and due to the offer made by DSA at the last minute, they opted to go there, despite (as I understood it) indicating to LBA they would be basing them there. Even if they had, the current situation may have led to the loss of routes or even the base at LBA. Different management, different ideas. One thing I have learned in my 50 years or so of being interested in aviation, is that it is an industry in which you can rely on absolutely nothing.

Wasn't DSA one of the airports (CWL was another) that came to an arrangement with Flybe to take some of the airline's E195 aircraft for which Flybe was seeking a use, following an internal airline study called 'Project Blackbird'? It was widely presumed that the airports provided a substantial financial incentive. I remember the Welsh news media quoting several million pounds in the case of CWL.

Nothing wrong with airports providing incentives but at both DSA and CWL it turned out to be of relatively short-term benefit, although DSA has suffered worse than CWL with Flybe's latest restructuring.

 

[stars&sids]

Flybe carried on at DSA as they were contracted to do. I was told by someone within the industry that they were far from happy with the loads out of DSA - hence the slow reduction in flights over time. They clearly thought they could make a go of it out of DSA despite the fact that various other airlines have failed to do so. Only TUi and Wizz have ventured into DSA and stayed for any length of time, which must mean something. If it is true that the loads were not meeting expectation, and on top of that the E195s were going, then the base didn't really have a long term future. I believe it was more a question of putting the E195s somewhere until they got rid of them and due to the offer made by DSA at the last minute, they opted to go there, despite (as I understood it) indicating to LBA they would be basing them there. Even if they had, the current situation may have led to the loss of routes or even the base at LBA. Different management, different ideas. One thing I have learned in my 50 years or so of being interested in aviation, is that it is an industry in which you can rely on absolutely nothing.

While it’s true that load factors initially were not great, the change to E175 from the 195’s suited the base much better.
In the last year, and particularly summer season 2019, load factors were good, not many empty seats, and some interlining traffic through Paris.
Of course, full flights don’t always generate profits, and if yields were not good enough then that’s probably the reason for shutting the base.
my feeling still is that if Flybe management hadn’t made so many bad decisions in general, leading to the near bankruptcy of the airline, then the DSA base would still be there now.

 

[Starflyer]

WhiteHeather has it about right. The yields were way below those required to sustain the operation, and all that the switch from E195 to E175 did was to reduce the number of empty seats flying around. One of the previous Flybe's management's bad decisions was to go into this in the first place - and DSA was one of several parts of the problem which led to the near bankruptcy of the airline.

 

[arry]

A worrying piece of breaking news

Regional airline Flybe in frantic bid to stave off collapse

The government is assessing whether it can help to prevent the collapse of one of the UK's biggest airlines, Sky News learns.

news.sky.com

 

[Hendi]

Just been reading this not good at all!

 

[LBA4EVER]

Thought all was ok now with flybe/virgin connect?

 

[paully]

It should have been, but their strategy didnt seem to be much better than the last lot. What they needed to do was cut/slash/burn their cost base but instead were timid, tinkering and issuing upbeat press releases. Flybe has a penchant for burning cash like no one has seen before and sadly looks like it might have run out. Great shame though

 

[Bigman]

That's ironic. One of the planes pictured PRPH is in bits at LBA after an APU fire....crashed and burned comes to mind!!!!

 

[Bigman]

Sorry just read the other thread. PRPH gone now. Still an omen??????

 

[LBA8098]

BHD would become desperately quiet too.

 

[a300boy]

With leeds council meeting today to decide wether to oppose development of Lba and yet more routes being lost I would think AMP must regret ever buying into this mess.