Aircraft Viewing Areas

[Galaxy]

Hi All,

A group of my students are carrying out a feasibility study into the construction of an aviation viewing area bordering LBA, something similar to what is at Manchester, to that end they have put a survey online to support their research: http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/FXK3TG5 would you mind completing one, and also sharing your thoughts on the subject within this thread.

Thanks :hatsoff:

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Re: Feasibility of an 'official' Viewing Area near LBA?

Have completed the survey but, since you ask, I will also share my opinions here.

As you start with Manchester, I shall do the same. The facility at Manchester is a vastly overpriced money making opportunity that offers little to a real enthusiast. It is good for a day out - more especially if one has children - but is not a good option for regular "spotting". Sadly, the airport authorities have seen fit to make it as difficult as possible to find any other place nearby to do any real viewing - though people still find their way around it - with such tactics as anti-climbing paint. They may cite terrorism etc as reasoning for doing that but we all know it is a cynical ploy to force people to use their aviation park. The things it does have going for it are: always plenty of interesting aircraft movements, static displays including concorde.

Moving on to LBA, for the majority of the time at least, you would find a maximum of 20-30 people at the various viewing locations around the airport - figures which would rise during an interesting movement but, since these are few and far between (Jet2 and Ryanair 737's anyone?), spiking figures would be similarly low in frequency. This would render any business model painfully inadequate (wouldn't even be worth someone making cups of tea) and would require a significantly interesting and enthralling experience to even bring in reasonable numbers of people. Also, given the number of excellent viewing locations already around LBA and the decent local amenities, a pay per view service is entirely unnecessary.

My experiences of comitted enthusiasts is that they are all about the score - seeing the aircraft they have come to see - and not about wishy washy, here or there attractions. In my opinion, the only way an official viewing area would even begin to work at LBA is if people were somehow able to get up close an personal with the planes - such as viewing from the terminal roof or such like - but security restrictions would never allow that.

I'm sure that people will immediately point out to me that the cafe and pub in the airport were reasonably full at times when they used to have a good view of the runway and apron but it did not cost an awful lot to use the facilities at the time and, in any case, the facilities were already available for passengers (ie not a separate entity) and non-passengers spent a lot more time watching the planes than spending their money on food and drink.

Except my Dad.

 

[White Heather]

Re: Feasibility of an 'official' Viewing Area near LBA?

Good post and all true - even though I wish it weren't. The ice cream man at the cemetary end does a good trade though in the summer! The reality is that nobody is going to make a viewing area at LBA. The airport never have been nor will then be interested in doing it. Plane Tree Hill is the best location, but too far from the 'action' for most dedicated spotters, and guaranteed to rip the exhaust of your pride and joy. The best spots for spotters remain the cemetary (great when 14 in use) and the pathway between the airport and golf course when 32 in use - although they spoiled that by putting a huge fence up a few years ago, making photography that bit more of a challenge.

 

[masere]

Re: Feasibility of an 'official' Viewing Area near LBA?

Like others say, there's no point when we don't have that many planes, and no biggies like 747's. I'll stick with the cemetery or the grassy area near the tunnel - free and good close-ups whether they're coming or going. And closer to the pubs!

Whoshotjimmy, when I go to MAN I go to the area across the runway from The Airport pub and stand atop one of the mounds. It's perfectly ok to do so. Much better than the AVP.

 

[whoshotjimmi]

Re: Feasibility of an 'official' Viewing Area near LBA?

Yes, I know where you mean but, the last time I went there, all access to viewing areas had been stopped - gates locked, anti climb paint, barbed wire. And I managed to get a parking ticket. There were still lots of people there though.

 

[Seasider]

Re: Feasibility of an 'official' Viewing Area near LBA?

May I suggest that the airport puts "portholes" in the link mesh fence, big enough to poke a lens through, on the footpath next to the golf course. Well, you can only hope!

 

[masere]

Re: Feasibility of an 'official' Viewing Area near LBA?

Not wishing to be straying off topic (Aviador will be watching!!), but Whoshotjimmi I've just looked on Google Earth and seen the gate you refer to. You needed to keep going right to the end of the carpark road. Then onto the grassy/dirt tracked area. There's no fences or gates there. There's even a stile at the far end of one of the grassy areas which brings you onto Moss Lane - that suggests public access is ok. I've been going there for years and never had any problems, even when the quarry is full of workers.

 

[rhinoscrazy]

Re: Feasibility of an 'official' Viewing Area near LBA?

May I suggest that the airport puts "portholes" in the link mesh fence, big enough to poke a lens through, on the footpath next to the golf course. Well, you can only hope!

the only problem with that is that some idiot will try to climb over and get into the airport causing a cuffle... great idea though ray:

 

[Aviador]

Re: Feasibility of an 'official' Viewing Area near LBA?

I would say one of the best places to view the airfield are from the near the radar facility. Close to there is the location earmarked for future development of cargo facilities and other services. I'm sure this area would be suitable for enthusiasts to view the airfield. They would have an excellent view across the whole airport and apron area with excellent photography opportunities. The airport would make a small fortune out of parking and cafe facilities.

 

[pss53]

Official Viewing Park?

From reading various threads on here I see a few work in or around LBIA.

Does anyone know if there are any plans to build an official viewing area of aircraft (something like they have at Manchester but obviously not that size).

Think it would certainly be busy and something I'd pay a £1 or £2 for the pleasure.

The current area's are either a rocky waste ground at the side or at the end of the runway where certain young people hang out leaving you watching what their up to more than the planes above...

 

[tleeds]

Re: Official Viewing Park?

I think that this may have been discussed before on the forum and to my knowledge I think that feelings were mixed. I'm not saying that no-one would want an 'official' viewing area, just that it would be a difficult thing for the airport to do and I don't think they would see much benefit from it.

There are many areas around the airport, of which I am sure you know all, if not the vast majority of them, but let me direct you to this website, of which I believe Lbaspotter runs:

http://www.lbaspotters.net/spottinglocationsatlba.htm

You may or may not know about it but on here, is a thorough over-view of all the relevant areas to watch aircraft. I think, if the airport were to choose one for an 'official' viewing area, without the fact for constructing one it would probably be 'The Cemetery' of which is my personal favourite... :smile:

 

[Galaxy]

Re: Official Viewing Park?

My students did a feasibility study for this, the best views are offered from the cemetery, but the ethical conundrum of building a visitor attraction next to a cemetery would be problematic, plus cars would still need to park in Yeadon Tarn car park if not to cause a nuisance. The students came up with a platform on stilts beneath the wall to the left of the cemetery (as if facing the runway), with signposts, extra footpath and a pedestrian crossing between the platform and Yeadon Tarn car park.

The simplest solution, would be for the council to pile a lot of earth up and build a humped platform adjacent to the runway on land that is part of Tarnfield Park, but the view wouldn't be as good. If anything was ever built it would not be allowed to be any higher than the natural landscape and man made structures around it due to radar interference. We found this out from a very helpful Manager at LBA, can't recall his name though.

I don't think in the current spending climate that either will happen though.

 

[White Heather]

Re: Official Viewing Park?

There would be no point in considering any sort of viewing park development near the cemetery as long as there is the faintest possibility of a runway extension in the future. I know that is highly unlikely, certainly as long as Bridgepoint own LBA, but you can never say never. If they did extend it at the Yeadon end, the cemetery, and the area currently used for viewing, would have to be removed to provide the required level ground either side of the runway. Personally, I don't think we will ever see a dedicated viewing area at LBA unless the council decided to allocate some of the common land on Plane Tree Hill for that purpose - which I have to say would be better than the mess it is now (and has been all of my life).

 

[Seasider]

Re: Official Viewing Park?

Plane Tree Hill is the ideal site, opposite the terminal, can see the whole runway and the sun is behind you (most of the day).

 

[White Heather]

Re: Spotting Movements Log & Heads Up

As promised, I officially raised the issue of overgrown trees and bushes in front of the viewing area outside Yeadon Cemetary at todays JCC meeting. Sadly, the Yeadon Councillor wasn't in attendance, but another Councillor, who was directly involved in signing off the Airport's Forecourt Management Plan, said he would take the issue away and see what he could do to get the Highways Department to trim down the trees and bushes. The airport confirmed that as the area is outside the airport boundaries, they cannot get involved in the issue, although they appreciated the interest in the airport.

Also as promised, I had officially asked LBA management if they would consider the future needs of aviation enthusiasts. I had suggested the area immediately on the left as you enter the South side, being an area of grass land between the perimeter fence overlooking Victoria Avenue, and the taxiway from the end of the old runway 28 up to the apron in front of the Multiflight light aircraft hangar.

The response from LBA was surprising really. I expected a 'sorry, not on our agenda', but it was confirmed that LBA recognised the need for airport viewing and the lack of it at present, and that this is an issue that will be included within the new Masterplan, which is currently being worked up. No timescales were given and it wouldn't have been appropriate for me to ask at this stage, but it is on the agenda. I guess we will have to 'watch this space' and when the new Masterplan is published, look for a proposed viewing area on the airport diagrams!

 

[Aviador]

Re: Spotting Movements Log & Heads Up

That is excellent news. Like you mentioned previously though, if the airport were to make a small investment in a viewing area people would use it and it would provide the airport with an additional guaranteed income source. So, at last it is on the agenda for sometime in the future.

 

[tleeds]

Re: Spotting Movements Log & Heads Up

My only concern that may get kicked up at a later stage would be the traffic volumes in the summer months coming in and out of that entrance onto Victoria Avenue.

It wouldn't necessarily be off Victoria Avenue, it could just as easily be placed on the other side of Yeadon Tarn, with access from that rather large, and mainly empty gravel car-park just by the BMX/Skateboard track...!

I'm sure if the airport are to include it into their Masterplan, then the evaluations will be made as to where best to put it!

 

[lbaspotter]

Re: Spotting Movements Log & Heads Up

What I don't understand is that people are forgetting that there is already a spotting area over at Multiflight! Which includes a Cafe, Car Parking spaces for about 30/40 cars and good views of the apron and aircraft landing runway 32/14.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

Re: Spotting Movements Log & Heads Up

What I don't understand is that people are forgetting that there is already a spotting area over at Multiflight! Which includes a Cafe, Car Parking spaces for about 30/40 cars and good views of the apron and aircraft landing runway 32/14.

Which you have to pay for now. To keep people out from waiting for planes to land so they can go collect friends. Stupid company. Tbh the airport need to create some space some miles away from the airport as a "parking free zone". Once the planes have landed they are told and move further upto the airport. Or council needs to put more laybys on harrogate road ha, council do that, more likely the pope will turn to another religion - stupid labour.

 

[Aviador]

Re: Spotting Movements Log & Heads Up

Maybe so Lbaspotter but the view from there is limited and not forgetting that as far as we know it is Multiflight who will be cashing in on any money the Southside facility makes not the airport authority. Of course from a spotters perspective we're not too bothered who makes money so long as it's cheap enough to use and you can see the aircraft. An aircraft viewing area which offers dedicated raised viewpoints so you can see over the fence line and take pictures of the aircraft would be better than the current Multiflight option. Having said that, if the airport does have a stake in the Southside ownership (I don't know) they might be able to look at expanding the facility to provide dedicated raised viewing areas.

As for other locations there are places people haven't considered which would be good for viewing aircraft. One location is not far from the radar (safety and security permitted), access would be through the long stay car park access road (not accessible at the moment). Views of the airfield are superb from there. A dedicated viewing area open during daylight hours would be ideal for this location and it would offer full views of the runway and aircraft parking apron.

Here's one of the viewing platforms at Manchester airport.

Manchester airport visitor centre aircraft viewing, by Aviador, hosted on Forums4airports.com (Manchester airport photo gallery)