Monarch Airlines

[White Heather]

My preferred option would be an A330, although I know its highly unlikely, but a girl can dream!

Yes I know, dream on Heather!!

 

[Aviador]

I know it's an issue that has been brought up before when Thomas Cook have brought their A321's in on numerous occasion's but is it an actual issue that the A321 operates out of LBA once, maybe twice a week...? Does anyone know of any legal issues or restrictions with the runway and braking action...?

The breaking system on the A321 isn't as good as a A320 and certainly not outstanding like a 757, but it is safe and can do the job, with LBA having crosswinds and this breaking situation with the A321 it can cause a little bit of a problem, it doesn't make it impossible for an A321 to operate into LBA, it just means the pilots needs to concentrate that little bit more.

Maybe this time next year we could see Orlando flights after all, with the B787 Dreamliner Perhaps

Concorde Lover, you have just contradicted yourself there saying "There's no restrictions on the A321, the only thing is that it needs to be better prepared in terms to operate out of LBA. The problem the A321 has with LBA is the runway length and it's breaking system."

This question was answered at length by A300boy some time ago. If I remember correctly, the restriction is with UK airlines not foreign airlines due to different operating procedures.

 

[LUFC Jonno]

I would love to see a A330 come into Leeds on regular basis but sadly I can't that happening. I think the Monarch A330's will be mainly used on the long haul flights to Sanford and Cancun. I will guess that a B757 will be used on the routes.

 

[User0001]

Monarch new routes now on cosmos site.

Grenoble 3 weekly, Munich 2 weekly from October

 

[channex 757]

Excellent news for the airport!!

Is Munich a new route for monarch airlines to?

[ Post made via iPod ]

 

[White Heather]

That is brilliant news - Munich would be a real catch.

For the future, (ie summer 2013) is it possible that Monarch would do what Jet2 do, and operate flights that are part Inclusive Tour and part scheduled? So the routes operating for TOM could be on a 757 with part of the capacity booked by Thomson and part as Monarch scheduled services. I know its unlikely given the Monarch already fly scheduled from MAN, but on the other hand neither Thomson nor Monarch would have quite the same risk. Its actually quite a good way of starting off at new airports whilst routes become more established. It has worked for Jet2 in particular, so perhaps Monarch may be taking a leaf out of their book?

Using that model might also allow Monarch to continue to fly scheduled only over the higher demand weekends on the more popular routes where there is still a lot of under capacity from LBA. That would keep the aircraft at LBA all week, which has to be more attractive to an airline that having to move it around

Just a thought anyway.

 

[User0001]

Munich is a new route for Monarch, but they have also announced it from MAN/LTN/BHX and probably LGW too.

[ Post made via iPhone ]

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

I think it would operate on a W part instead of being based here. So MAN-MUC-LBA-MUC-MAN. Very good news none the less, and white heather you & me think alike. However i think if they do have a contract over at Cork, that will be where it heads. This is not a growing airline in terms of fleet, as the A300 & 757's are going, so whilst good for LBA, EMA, LTD it's bad for bigger bases like MAN/BHX/LGW who will probably take a cut on frequency of routes due to these new routes.

 

[Aviador]

Good on Monarch for being adventurous. Munich is an excellent choice and should prove hugely popular. It will also teach Lufthansa a lesson for turning it's back on Leeds and other regional departure points over the years.

 

[LUFC Jonno]

This is great news for the airport with two routes they have been trying to get for a long time. Is the Munich just for the winter season or will it be all year round?

 

[tleeds]

A massive surprise from Monarch, but fantastic non the less!

It seems Monarch are doing what; easyJet, Ryanair and Jet2 are doing (and what BmiBaby) where they run alongside the typical Sun destinations, city routes as well.

Monarch seem to be running from strength to strength with this, however, as I mentioned on my post dated 3rd of May in the Monarch/EMA thread, it will come as a shock to; Gatwick, Manchester, Birmingham and Luton, where I suspect reductions in frequencies seem a reality, as no new aircraft are, at present, being reviewed by Monarch... but works out well for the likes of LBA and EMA..!!

Thumbs Up to Monarch! :good: :dance:

 

[lbia]

I think it's great news, well done Monarch. I have concerns that unless the timings are good (early morning Friday and late evening Sunday) the Munich route may struggle. An A320 is also a very large aircraft for a new city route, let's hope it is not over capacity. Same for Grenoble, I hope it has full support from the inclusive tour companies. Thomson struggled to fill a weekly Chambery and Inghams struggled to make the Innsbruck work once weekly. A 3 times weekly Grenoble on an Airbus is a very brave move. Let's hope it works!

That is assuming its on a 320. Anything bigger and it is a serious overkill. Any news on what's going to be here next summer? Surely a 757 to reach SSH?

[ Post made via iPhone ]

 

[lbaspotter]

The Munich route should do well. As it will cater for ski holidays in the northern part off Austria now we don't have ski flights to nearby Innsbruck.
Munich is also good destination to take a city break and visit the German Christmas markets. Meanwhile ramstein airbase is only a short drive away, so will also cater for any Military personnel travelling back up to any of the Yorkshire bases and Barracks as well.
Grenoble is also a good destination to be added to the route network and one that Jet2 and Easyjet are said have been looking at. All credit to Monarch as they have taken a gamble and jump it before anyone else. Hopefully it will be a gamble that pays off, Just like Easyjet have proven over the past 2 winters operating head to head with Jet2 on the Geneva.

With having Cosmos Holidays and Avro flight only brands on board and hopefully some of the ski specialist companies I think both routes will work for Monarch. They are filling a big gap that has seen Jet2 decrease services to Geneva & Chambery next winter season and not forgetting the loss of Austrian on Innsbruck charter last year and Thomson’s charter to Chambery.

 

[Galaxy]

Great news from Monarch.

I'm so pleased that Germany is finally being opened up from LBA, Dusseldorf, Weeze, Berlin, Munich....I'd now like to see Erfurt (with Ryanair) and Frankfurt (with FlyBe or Jet2)

 

[whoshotjimmi]

I hate to be the one who brings everyone back down with a bit of a bump but I can't help feel that we are getting a little bit carried away with the Monarch talk. Firstly, this is all still speculation to some extent as it is yet to be announced. Secondly, the Munich and Grenoble routes appear to be set up with ski ased package holidays in mind. Certainly, Grenoble would not run past winter and the continuation of a Munich route would depend entirely on aircraft availability and, as has already been mentioned, the Monarch fleet is going to be further stretched in coming months.

Of course, if this is to happen, it is all good news for LBA but let's just cool our expectations a little bit.

 

[User0001]

Relax.
1) There is a press conference is tomorrow at 10am - subject "introducing a long established airline brand to LBA"
2) Monarch have confirmed in public that they are announcing new winter sun and ski routes on Tuesday 8th
3) The Grenoble and Munich flights are already available in a number of Monarch's sister company sites

I would imagine the most interesting aspect will be what is said, or not, about their plans beyond the winter 12/13 season.

 

[Aviador]

Just had a peep at the Munich passenger figures from Manchester. Whilst Manchester has it's own catchment area, a sizable proportion of passengers that use that airport will originate from this side of the Pennines.

During August 2011 year a total of 28,079 passengers flew to Munich from Manchester.During February a total of 23,840 passengers flew to Munich.

February 2011 - Manchester - Munich - 23,840
August 2011 - Manchester - Munich - 28,079

With no direct comparison, the Leeds - Dusseldorf route carried just less than 4,955 passengers during August with only 3,718 using the service during February.

February 2011 - Leeds - Dusseldorf - 3,718
August 2011 - Leeds - Dusseldorf - 4,955

February 2011 Manchester - Dusseldorf - 11,639
August 2011 Manchester - Dusseldorf - 9 289

A Leeds to Munich service should prove hugely successful if Leeds can eventually claw back it's market share of passenger leakage across the Pennines and figures suggest a year round service is more than workable.

Source CAA

 

[tleeds]

This is what I have been able to find out so far:

Munich - Friday & Sunday operations. Aircraft could come from any of; Birmingham, Luton or Manchester.
Grenoble - Monday, Thursday & Saturday operations. Aircraft will be a Birmingham based aircraft.

Munich - First bookable date: Fri 14th Dec until Sun 31st March
Grenoble - First bookable date: Sat 15th Dec until Sat 30th March

Judging by the schedules the aircraft will be operating on a 'W' leg, which was expected.

This is looking like what is expected to be announced tomorrow...

 

[User0001]

In terms of Munich leakage to Manchester, there isn't going to be a huge amount to claw back due to several factors:

1) frequency. LBA will only be 4 weekly for winter, while MAN will be up to 6 daily. Therefore time sensitive business travellers will choose the frequency, and also more flights = cheaper tickets in most cases

2) selling. LBA-MUC will mostly cater for skiing breaks as evident from the Cosmos entry. Therefore only a small percentage of flight only will be sold versus holidays, reducing choice

3) connections. MAN does well due to onward connections from MUC with Lufthansa. This is something Monarch cannot offer.

4) carriers. A choice of 4 carriers means more choice. From low cost easy jet, to holiday monarch, to 3 daily Lufthansa and finally the wide body Singapore flight.

5) brand awareness. Firstly, MAN is known as a big German departure point. Lufthansa alone has over 100 flights per week, and that's before you add in Ryanair, flyby and Easyjet, as well as now Monarch.
Then there is the airlines. People know Singapore air, Lufthansa, easy jet and Ryanair, but realistically, how many people are automatically going to think Germany = Monarch?

So, the Munich holidays will sell well, but as for clawing back Munich flight only pax, I just don't see it.

 

[lbia]

So if Munich is operated on a W rotation, we can expect an arrival into Leeds around lunchtime, with a departure approx an hour later. Call it 14:00 for example, giving an arrival into Munich of approx 17:00 local. It would have to be a similar time for the Sunday rotation assuming it still follows a W pattern, leaving Munich approx 12:00 local getting into Leeds at 13:00 ish for the return. Whilst it is clear a fair percentage of the seats will be sold as package ski holidays, weekend city breaks are near enough pointless. Give or take a few hours on the schedules, Friday would be a day spent travelling and you would have to return to the airport early Sunday morning to get back to the UK. I really think they will struggle to fill many seats on a flight only basis apart from the VFR traffic that don't really care when they fly. The points mentioned by user001 are all also very true. I hate to by cynical but Monarch are not exactly known as a 'cheap' carrier such as Ryanair, that have a distinct market for people that do not care when they fly as long as it is cheap. Monarch do not have this business model hence why they fly at more convenient times but are much more expensive. The flights will be very convenient from the first UK departure and last UK arrival - it has been mentioned on a BHX/LTN/MAN aircraft. Leaving early Friday and arriving late on Sunday provides the perfect weekend break from this departure point, the crappy middle flights from Leeds may be considerably less popular. This is why Jet2 scrapped last years EDI-PRG-LBA-PRG-EDI rotation as it made it very hard for Leeds passengers to get a weekend break.It was great utilisation of the aircraft but feedback was not good so the times were reverted back.

Again, for the Grenoble route, if it does operate on a W pattern, the earliest departure we can expect is 14:00-15:00 ish, not getting into Grenoble until 18:00 ish local, slightly better than Munich but again not ideal for skiers as most resorts are a good 2-3 hours from the airport.

I really don't want to sound negative but there is a lot of over excitement over these two routes, obviously it's a great coup for the airport but I just feel that any new routes that are potentially massive winners or massive looser need to be given the best chance possible and I think they are going to be poor timings and the wrong capacity. Again it's great to see Grenoble on the map but I think its a huge gamble operating on an A320 three times a week - that's a similar weekly capacity to what we have to Rome/Nice/Menorca even in the peak summer months. I don't see how the timings can be anything too different to what I have suggested unless they part base an aircraft here.

Sorry to drift but I think this might be of interest, both Munich and Grenoble are both on a potential 'wish list' in the head office of a certain red low cost airline operating out of Leeds. What works for this airline is late afternoon/evening departures to Germany/Amsterdam/Belfast and there is a strong business case for Munich operated 3x weekly with evening departures. There has been problems gaining slots to make the route viable so no developments for the immediate future. The same for Grenoble, it has been suggested various times and following on from the announcement of Manchester-Grenoble, it was very high on the list of routes to be operated from Leeds with similar departure times as the Manchester route. A massive research survey has recently been carried out that identified these two routes it also identified a significant demand for routes to Malta and Fuerteventura, despite Ryanair already operating these routes from Leeds as well as a significant demand for flights to Madrid. It will be really interesting to see what happens over the next year.