British Airways

[White Heather]

I dont think there is any doubt that LBA will do the deal that BA want. There is no way that having spent the best part of 2 years trying to get BA to LBA, that they will allow them not to come over a deal. I am sure that LBA consider getting LBA = LHR as THE most important route development for a long time and will do whatever it takes to get the service up and running.

 

[wawkrk]

I agree Heather, I was just posting the latest news.
BA will indeed come to LBA even if the financial deal for the airport is not great.
The mere presence of BA will in my opinion make other operators look at LBA.
This is the most significant happening since Jet2 arrived.
Monarch also helps of course.
Lufthansa may also wonder if throwing all their weight behind Manchester is the best strategy.

 

[User0001]

BA will be coming to LBA. they are NOT Ryanair who publicly humiliate an airport by saying 'it's not us, it's them'.

As for Lufthansa, they are very happy at MAN, high yields, high frequencies and high loads, so let's stop this airlines are too entrenched MAN to their own detriment thing. Believe it of not, the airlines know what they are doing!

[ Post made via iPhone ]

 

[wawkrk]

user 001

Yes I said, BA will come to Leeds.
Didn't know you worked for Lufthansa.

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Does anyone know eaxctly when BA stopped flying to LBA?

I was there when the final flight took place and know it must have been late seventies or early eighties, but exactly when I am unsure. I would also be interested to know the the registration of the a/c- it was probably G-APEX or G-APEY, but again not sure.

My main recollection was of standing on the apron as the last flight did a fly-past. Typically (for LBA) we had low cloud that day and the aeroplane could not be seen- just heard!

This has got me wondering why BA pulled out in the first place. It was a fact that the withdrawal coincided with the removal of the Viscount from service, I think Liverpool was dropped around the same time, and if my theory is correct Cardiff as well.

LbaYorkie.

 

[lbaspotter]

Does anyone know eaxctly when BA stopped flying to LBA?

I was there when the final flight took place and know it must have been late seventies or early eighties, but exactly when I am unsure. I would also be interested to know the the registration of the a/c- it was probably G-APEX or G-APEY, but again not sure.

My main recollection was of standing on the apron as the last flight did a fly-past. Typically (for LBA) we had low cloud that day and the aeroplane could not be seen- just heard!

This has got me wondering why BA pulled out in the first place. It was a fact that the withdrawal coincided with the removal of the Viscount from service, I think Liverpool was dropped around the same time, and if my theory is correct Cardiff as well.

LbaYorkie.

Hi

I wasn't born back then but looking up the history and talking to others I understand that British Airways withdrew from the Leeds - London Heathrow route in late 1979. Also British Midland acquired the route licence straight afterwards and continued the link until they dropped it a few years ago..
I also understand that Viscount G-APEY was the aircraft that did the last flight.

Hope that helps.

 

[User0001]

Wawkrk

I don't work for LH, I work for BA and Im involved in some of the new routes being announced, including LBA.

As for LH, I do know they are happy at MAN. they have stated very very publicly that MAN loads keep rising, and obviously they are starting a new BER (now TXL) route. In terms of yields, ive happened to see some figures for yield ex-MAN, and they are very attractive indeed....

[ Post made via iPhone ]

 

[White Heather]

Does anyone know eaxctly when BA stopped flying to LBA?

I was there when the final flight took place and know it must have been late seventies or early eighties, but exactly when I am unsure. I would also be interested to know the the registration of the a/c- it was probably G-APEX or G-APEY, but again not sure.

My main recollection was of standing on the apron as the last flight did a fly-past. Typically (for LBA) we had low cloud that day and the aeroplane could not be seen- just heard!

This has got me wondering why BA pulled out in the first place. It was a fact that the withdrawal coincided with the removal of the Viscount from service, I think Liverpool was dropped around the same time, and if my theory is correct Cardiff as well.

LbaYorkie.

LBA Yorkie, British Airways pulled out of LBA in 1980. I can't remember if it was the end of March or the end of October, but it was definitely 1980. I don't know which Viscount operated the last flight but as LBAspotter has said G-APEY, I have no reason at all to say otherwise, as that was one of the Viscounts that spent almost their entire time operating out of LBA, along with G-APEX, G-AOYH, G-AOYL, G-AOYO, and G-AOYR. I was at LBA on the day of the changeover and saw the last BA Viscount leave, and the first British Midland Viscount arrive. I am fairly sure you are right LBAYorkie in that Liverpool and Cardiff also lost their services, but both of those were ex Cambrian routes - sister airline to Northeast. Both became part of British Airways in the mid to late 70's[sign][/sign]

 

[LBAYORKIE]

Thanks for the comments everyone has chipped in with.

At the time, we all blamed the loss of BA on the (then) short runway. Once the Viscounts went BA did not have anything suitable to
operate into LBA. I could be wrong but at the time I think the only domestic routes BA left themselves with were those operated on a shuttle basis by Tridents. I am not entirely sure about this as MAN-LHR shuttles may have been BAC1-11's by 1980. In any case BA only rarely operated 1-11's into LBA, and then I can only remember them on diversions from MAN. Strange really because Aer Lingus had been operating them from LBA for years by that time.
LbaYorkie

 

[White Heather]

I think you are right LBAYorkie - they continued operating from Manchester, Newcastle, Glasgow, Edinburgh and Belfast I think. I think it was more than just the withdrawal of Viscounts though - there was a change in policy too, because as you point out, BA had aircraft that were well capable of operating from the old unextended runway at LBA, especially on a short hop like LHR. They had Super 1-11's (500's) and 737 200's, and they got BAe ATP's around that time too), and ironically, British Midland used all three of these from LBA to LHR at one time or another (although the 1-11's used were the shorter 475's. However, British Midland had used 1-11 500's out of LBA previously when they did the Glasgow route and on occasional charters, including those for Leeds United's ventures into Europe

Incidentally, I have just read something on the internet that was published in July 1980 and BA were no longer at LBA, so I think they pulled out at the end of the winter season, 1979-80,so probably the end of March 1980 The same article was questioning why BA had left LBA and pointing out also that British Midland had used 1-11 500's on the LBA - GLA route.

Finally, whilst on the subject of British Airways (or in this case, British Airtours), it is 27 years today since Tristar G-BBAI ran off the end of the runway at LBA on what was, that year, Bank Holiday Monday (1985)

 

[tleeds]

Thanks for the comments everyone has chipped in with.

At the time, we all blamed the loss of BA on the (then) short runway. Once the Viscounts went BA did not have anything suitable to
operate into LBA. I could be wrong but at the time I think the only domestic routes BA left themselves with were those operated on a shuttle basis by Tridents. I am not entirely sure about this as MAN-LHR shuttles may have been BAC1-11's by 1980. In any case BA only rarely operated 1-11's into LBA, and then I can only remember them on diversions from MAN. Strange really because Aer Lingus had been operating them from LBA for years by that time.
LbaYorkie

Not that I am old enough to remember, but wouldn't have Aer Lingus been under Ireland legislation just like Ryanair is at the moment, which means they are able to operate into LBA even in harsher conditions to other 'UK Airlines'...?

 

[White Heather]

Hi Tom, I think your post crossed with an edit I just did for mine, but yes, Aer Lingus were Irish registered, and for a good while they shared the LBA Dublin route with Northeast and then British Airways using 1-11's and 737 200's. In fact Aer Lingus were the first airline ever to fly a 737-200 into LBA (EI-ASC), shortly after the runway extension had been turned down by the clown, Peter Walker MP. Amidst talk of closing the airport down, EI suddenly announced they were ending Viscount services and operating jets to Dublin, most of which were part freight, part passengers.They proved it could be done. However, it was nothing to do with the Irish registration, because by the time BA pulled out of LBA in 1980, Britannia Airways were operating regular 737-200's from LBA to the Mediterrenean. In fact I made my first ever flight on a BY 737-200 from LBA to IBZ in that year, just a few months after BA pulled out.

 

[tleeds]

Sorry about that Heather..

It seems Britannia were very much the main lifeline for the airport, effectively keeping it open with its many operations! How strange it is, as they are basically keeping DSA open as well...

Funny how situations do full circles!

 

[wawkrk]

I also remember Heather that the then airport director Sellars being interviewed on television and he said BA pulled out because they could not economically operate the triple one. Of course he was talkng about BAC 1-11's but he wasn't much of an aviation person.
The take off distance on 33 was very short indeed as the aircraft had to clear the Victoria Avenue fence and the tall street lamps. Britannia aquired the 737-200ADV with more thrust.

 

[oldendays]

Mind if I throw in my twopenn'orth ?

British Airways left LBA at the end of the 1979-1980 winter season which would have been around the last weekend in March 1980 (i.e. when the clocks go forward). Not only did they withdraw from LBA-LHR but also LBA-BFS and LBA-DUB. LHR, as we know, went to BMA. BFS and DUB to Air UK. They'd already withdrawn the LBA flights to AMS, CDG/ORY and JER. I have on audio tape, I admit, the sound of BMA Viscount G-AZLR taxying on to stand at LBA on the afternoon of April 10 1980 so BMA were clearly established on the route by then (it makes a terrific noise, by the way).

As for why British Airways called it a day (when they were maintaining NCL-LHR), who knows ? But I'm sure I read on an internet site some years ago that one of Sir Colin Marshall's biggest regrets was packing in the LBA-LHR flights !

But back to the here and now. I've said it already but anyway, let's see the inaugural flight at least operated by an aircraft painted Northeast style. Please

 

[White Heather]

I have to admit that Northeast livery was amazing, especially when it was newly painted. I always remember seeinig my first Viscount in Northeast colours taking off on 15 against a brilliant blue sky and it looked amazing. The Cambrian livery was good too - similar to Northast but Orange top to the fueslage instead of yellow. They were probably two of the most unusual liveries of any British airline of the day - Court Line being the other that springs to mind. Somehow I can't see BA painting an A319 in Northeast livery though given the cost of painting an aircraft. Pity.

 

[wawkrk]

oldendays,

Yes the dates don't add up. I think Sellars at the time was probably talking about the first runway extension being turned down. BA was trying to exert some pressure because they wanted to replace the Viscounts. I think Heather remembers more about this than I do.
I remembered it because the mention of triple ones stuck in my mind because I didn't know what Sellars was talking about. Not sure I spelt his name correctly it's a long time ago.

 

[White Heather]

Yes, Geoffrey Sellars was director when Peter Walker MP turned down the runway extension the first time and he left not long afterwards I think, replaced by Gordon Dennison who was successful more than most in moving LBA forward, despite opposition from MP's, councillors, LACAN etc.

I think that BA's problem was that they only operated the 1-11 500's, or Super 1-11 as they were called by BA, rather than the smaller versions operated by Aer Lingus at the time. I am not sure when they commenced taking delivery of their 737-200's - but I am reasonably sure that by 1980 they had them, and they were perfectly capable of using the old runway 15/33 down to London. I think that the problem was that due to using only Viscounts on the LHR route, passenger numbers had dropped off rather, particularly as the Inter City 125 trains had recently been introduced on the Leeds to London line around 1978, significantly reducing travel times. Basically BA at the time didn't have the will to invest in jets on the route and didn't wait around to see how traffic built up if they did. As we know, British Midland used Viscount 800's to start with, but within a couple of years had upgraded first to the DC9-10 and later to the DC9-32 with considerable success, helped of course by the runway extension in 1984 - an extension that BA probably didn't think LBA would achieve. I rather suspect that had we already got that extension, or at least consent to build it, BA would have thought twice about leaving LBA at the time and putting all their eggs in the MAN basket.

 

[oldendays]

BA had a large fleet of 1-11 510s based mainly at Manchester. They also has a handful of the smaller 400s based at Birmingham, I think. Ironically, these aircraft were inherited from Cambrian, Northeast's sister airline. I definitely remember the 510s operating out of LBA on occasion, perhaps when it was foggy at Manchester and they were just positioning and therefore empty. Nevertheless with a reduced seating capacity they should have comfortably been able to operate from the old RW 15/33, especially on a short 200 mile flight requiring minimal fuel.

BA's first 737-200 was leased from Transavia around about the same time this was all going on. I think their first owned 737 was G-BGDA, registered in 1981. Of course, by this time, BA were gone from LBA. And now they're back (almost) !

 

[wawkrk]

user001 » Sun May 27, 2012 10:12 am

BA will be coming to LBA. they are NOT Ryanair who publicly humiliate an airport by saying 'it's not us, it's them'.
As for Lufthansa, they are very happy at MAN, high yields, high frequencies and high loads, so let's stop this airlines are too entrenched MAN to their own detriment thing. Believe it of not, the airlines know what they are doing!

Really?
Lufthansa may shift a swathe of flights to a new low cost operating division with as many as 90 jets as it seeks to end years of losses on European routes. The first quarter of this year showed losses of 381m euros.