British Airways

[Aviador]

Yes but you are forgetting the introduction of mixed mode movements at Heathrow which will also increase slot availability.

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[LBAYORKIE]

Got to admit though, the timing of the first southbound is not helpful.

 

[User0001]

Yes but you are forgetting the introduction of mixed mode movements at Heathrow which will also increase slot availability.

There are 2 points you are missing with this though.

1- It is not guaranteed as long as that idiot Justine Greening is in charge. God have mercy on those who fly over her beloved Putney constituency.

2- Unlike the bmi buyout, these 'extra slots' are not BA guaranteed, they will be open to any airline that wishes to take them. Carriers such as Qatar, Emirates, Virgin and Etihad will jump all over them, and carrier such as Air China and Korean, who have had to split ops between LHR/LGW will no doubt pay a handsome price to be able to bring all their ops back into 1 London airport. BA may take a back seat as they have 52 new slots to fill, so are not as desperate they once were.

 

[User0001]

I'm happy BA are here again but this is quite clearly a slot holder. What happened to your previouslt 3x per day schedule and flight numbers User001? That was a great schedule. This 4 per day schedule is not designed to connect with anything and therefore is already up against it, especially starting in December. We need a night stopper ASAP and hopefully from spring 2013 (like the other shuttles in Britain). My hope is that the 4 per day is deliberate overkill to stimulate the route before reducing to a proper schedule at 3 per day and a night stopper. They could have perhaps adjusted the other shuttles times so that we had a fighting chance to establish the route?

 

[wawkrk]

A slot sitter cannot be ruled out but I am sure BA have done their homework and the expected passenger figures will be realised.
I think most who do a days business in London will continue to use Kings Cross. BA will make several times the profit on long haul business class passengers.I know when I travelled to Hong Kong,Manila, Singapore,Jakarta,Tokyo,Seoul or Johannesburg etc,none of these were early morning flights.
For those flying only within Europe, there are plenty of loco routes. Only BA frequent flyers will lose out or continue to use MAN.
The situation may have a different slant when Air France-KLM enter the loco markets as they intend to do.
Also just to add, you don't need early morning flights to the USA as the time loss difference is negligible.

 

[wawkrk]

Just a few of the connectons and you don't have to always connect with BA to check in at LBA.
Some are also Oneworld partners.
On the longer European flights you would not be able to plan a day trip in any case.
This is only up to 12:15


11:25 UA7778 ISTANBUL SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:30 AA6188 SAN FRANCISCO SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:30 AA6529 STOCKHOLM SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:30 AC6299 SINGAPORE SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:30 AY5928 STOCKHOLM SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:30 BA285 SAN FRANCISCO SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:30 BA778 STOCKHOLM SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:30 BD5037 LOS ANGELES SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:30 CX7111 STOCKHOLM SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:30 CY1834 LOS ANGELES SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:30 IB4669 SAN FRANCISCO SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:30 QF3353 STOCKHOLM SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:30 SQ2507 LOS ANGELES SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:30 SQ317 SINGAPORE SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:30 VA5557 SINGAPORE SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:30 VS007 LOS ANGELES SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:30 VS7317 SINGAPORE SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:35 BA075 LAGOS SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:35 BD5005 MIAMI SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:35 SQ2505 MIAMI SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:35 VS005 MIAMI SCHEDULED Terminal three
11:40 AA6340 GENEVA SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:40 AA6564 EDINBURGH SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:40 AA6588 NICE SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:40 AB5150 EDINBURGH SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:40 AC2503 HOUSTON SCHEDULED Terminal four
11:40 AY5963 EDINBURGH SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:40 BA1442 EDINBURGH SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:40 BA344 NICE SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:40 BA730 GENEVA SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:40 BD6105 HOUSTON SCHEDULED Terminal four
11:40 LH7621 HOUSTON SCHEDULED Terminal four
11:40 UA5 HOUSTON SCHEDULED Terminal four
11:45 AA6154 DALLAS/FT WORTH SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 AA6195 CHICAGO SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 AA6708 ABERDEEN SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 AB5112 ABERDEEN SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 BA1308 ABERDEEN SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 BA193 DALLAS/FT WORTH SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 BA295 CHICAGO SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 BD3197 FRANKFURT SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:45 DL9475 AMSTERDAM SCHEDULED Terminal four
11:45 IB4629 DALLAS/FT WORTH SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 IB4675 CHICAGO SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 IB7564 ABERDEEN SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:45 KL1010 AMSTERDAM SCHEDULED Terminal four
11:45 LH905 FRANKFURT SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:45 UA8814 FRANKFURT SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:50 A3601 ATHENS SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:50 BD6001 ATHENS SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:50 BD6771 GENEVA SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:50 LX351 GENEVA SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:50 TP7443 ATHENS SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:50 UA9845 ATHENS SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:50 US4810 ATHENS SCHEDULED Terminal one
11:55 AA6504 AMSTERDAM SCHEDULED Terminal five
11:55 BA434 AMSTERDAM SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:00 9W5303 WASHINGTON SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:00 AA6186 LOS ANGELES SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:00 AA6308 MILAN-LINATE SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:00 AA6324 ATHENS SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:00 AC5345 WASHINGTON SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:00 BA283 LOS ANGELES SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:00 BA562 MILAN-LINATE SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:00 BA632 ATHENS SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:00 BD4469 WASHINGTON SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:00 BD5703 KUALA LUMPUR SCHEDULED Terminal four
12:00 IB4667 LOS ANGELES SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:00 LH9260 WASHINGTON SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:00 MH003 KUALA LUMPUR SCHEDULED Terminal four
12:00 UA919 WASHINGTON SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:05 AA6207 TORONTO SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:05 AA6481 PRAGUE SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 AC5426 NEWARK SCHEDULED Terminal four
12:05 AC857 TORONTO SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 AC9973 STAVANGER SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 AY5993 TORONTO SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:05 BA093 TORONTO SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:05 BA5959 DUBLIN SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:05 BA860 PRAGUE SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 BD3802 STAVANGER SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 BD4857 TORONTO SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 BD6123 NEWARK SCHEDULED Terminal four
12:05 EI159 DUBLIN SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:05 IB7581 TORONTO SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:05 LH5334 TORONTO SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 LH7631 NEWARK SCHEDULED Terminal four
12:05 OS8225 TORONTO SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 SA7873 STAVANGER SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 SK3885 TORONTO SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 SK4630 STAVANGER SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:05 UA9 NEWARK SCHEDULED Terminal four
12:10 AA6484 ZURICH SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:10 AA6538 HELSINKI SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:10 AB5066 ZURICH SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:10 AY5904 HELSINKI SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:10 BA714 ZURICH SCHEDULED Terminal five
12:10 BA794 HELSINKI SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:15 A31114 EDINBURGH SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 A33406 PHILADELPHIA SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 A3759 LARNACA SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 AA081 DALLAS/FT WORTH SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:15 AC6647 EDINBURGH SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 AC9188 DUSSELDORF SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 AI7781 EDINBURGH SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 AY5793 DALLAS/FT WORTH SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:15 BA1530 DALLAS/FT WORTH SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:15 BD056 EDINBURGH SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 BD2419 PHILADELPHIA SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 BD3243 DUSSELDORF SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 BD6009 LARNACA SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 ET1520 EDINBURGH SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 GF6513 DALLAS/FT WORTH SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:15 IB4207 DALLAS/FT WORTH SCHEDULED Terminal three
12:15 LH3383 DUSSELDORF SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 US4817 LARNACA SCHEDULED Terminal one
12:15 US729 PHILADELPHIA SCHEDULED Terminal one

 

[Bigman]

Time for my tuppenyworth. Having flown LAX to LHR recently with BA arriving at LHR at 12:00, the 13:50 connection to LBA would have been very useful, instead of which I had to go over the hill to MAN. I personally think that the times overall are spot on for long-haul connections in particular, which as many have pointed out seems to be the main focus of these flights.

BA need to do what they can to stop punters taking the M62 option and flying with American, Emirates, Singapore etc, and use their LHR flights instead. The only way they can do this is by actually flying to LHR, which I am sure we have covered some way back on this thread.

Businessmen don't necessarily do meetings from 9 to 5. They might just be going down for a quick 1 hour meeting. Some of our consultants do, one of which lives in Menston and drives past the airport to get to Leeds City Station. I agree that the 9 to 5 brigade will still most likely suffer the continued delights of 30 year old East Coast stock, but I am sure that the new BA service will pick up quite a few who have more flexible timing issues.

Anyway, I hope it is a success, and I hope that they do eventually move to T5, which I was really impressed with last month.

 

[Aviador]

A bloke on the TV last night (think he was from the Chamber of Commerce) summed the new Leeds Bradford flights up. He said Kings Cross opens up central London from Leeds city centre whereas Heathrow opens up the world from Yorkshire and we need to do business with the world not just central London. British Airways wont make any money from day trippers but they will from interlining connecting passengers and as wawkrk has pointed out, they are providing Yorkshire passengers with a wide range of connections made available by both BA and the Oneworld partners.

 

[cmj]

For those flying only within Europe, there are plenty of loco routes. Only BA frequent flyers will lose out or continue to use MAN.
The situation may have a different slant when Air France-KLM enter the loco markets as they intend to do.
Also just to add, you don't need early morning flights to the USA as the time loss difference is negligible.

At least to me, loco routes are pretty useless for business, inflexible to changes and no connection possibilities.

As someone who files a fair bit on business (with KLM) I do appreciate things like lounge access too (Flying Blue Gold).

If I had to fly loco or head over the hills, MAN would be getting a lot more of my business, but I think KLM are here to stay, just a shame I don't (yet) have a realistic option of using BA too.

 

[wawkrk]

I agree,the loco routes will not attract many business passengers but also BA will not attract many non business passengers.
I will still use KLM sometimes to rack up more airmiles and use the business lounge of course but I also use the business lounge when flying with Ryanair.
The extra cost saving by not flying with KLM for example will pay for a Priority pass for the whole year.

 

[pug]

It has been featured in the Hull Daily Mail today, or at least on their website..

http://www.thisishullandeastriding.co.u ... story.html

I seem to remember the Ryanair expansion was also featured in there some time ago.

 

[ls27]

There is a nice little story in this morning's YP Business section headed
Taking to the Air. - British Airways captain James Rowlands will pilot the first flight from Heathrow to LBIA on Dec. 9th. The Airbus A319 is scheduled to leave at 7AM and will arrive in Yorkshire an hour later. Yorkshireman Cpt Rowlands, who lives near Wetherby played a role on bringing B.A. back to the Region. He said " I made quite a lot of effort to put the people of LBIA and B.A. management together back in late 2011. For that reason they've allowed me to fly the inaugural service. He said that B.A. was missing out on business in Yorkshire as increasing numbers were using KLM services to Amsterdam for onward onternational flights.

 

[wawkrk]

All EDI and MAN flights will operate from T5. If BA are serious about long haul connections, will LBA follow.

 

[ex_crew]

As an ex B.A crew member I can say from experience that there is for sure a market in the Yorkshire area.
We have key industries based in Leeds that require interline connections with B.A longhaul.
Asda / Walmart is a good example.
I'm a little confused as to why an earlier post suggested that " B.A already want this to fail ".
A 90 second slot at LHR is like gold dust. B.A already had various airfields that they were
considering to fill this including worlwide options.

They chose LBA.

Free slots dont come about often, thats a fact.

Already B.A have invested a large amount of money towards this new project , they do want this to work.

BMI did not have the connections at LHR when they operated the Diamond Service yet filled many of there flights.

I welcome B.A with open arms and have every confidence that this service will not only work but be increased after some time.

 

[tleeds]

I've been reading this thread intently for the past few days following the news of the recent BA arrival and every time I have had a question regarding the new route, someone has always managed to beat me too it and has been gratefully answered however I have managed to find one question...

Within the recent posts made by previous members it has been suggested that the flights will be operated by an A319 aircraft, however from a BA/LBA press release through many different Media feeds they have described it as an 160-seater aircraft which to me sounds like an A320...

Will the flights therefore be mixed between the two aircraft types or will it be a consistent scheduled A319 as previously suggested?

Fantastic news non-the-less and it almost seems that if BMI were able to do so well for so many years, it can only be successful for BA! As WhiteHeather pointed out a 32 year absence is a long one and the FlyBe attempt at Gatwick was a mere slice of the full cake of passengers that was needed to make the flight work... Sorry for the reference to cake... I'm rather hungry!

 

[wawkrk]

It could be Tom that if bookings exceed capacity then a larger aircraft could be used if available and switched from another route. I think this is quite common. BA will not turn away long haul business class bookings because the Leeds flight is full.

 

[White Heather]

My turn now, after attending today's LBA Consultative Committee meeting.

1 BA expect 170,000 pax per year on this route.

2 Flights will be A319 with occasional A320 if required.

3 LBA management are clearly wanting a night stopper and some tweaking of schedules in time, and reading between the lines, this could happen once the route has proved itself.

4. The slots are to T1 so the flights will operate there but will be switched to T5 as soon as possible, probably for the Summer 2013 season

5. I asked if there was any danger these were slot sitter flights and LBA state that BA have assured that this is NOT the case. They are committed to the route as the presence of Andy Lord at the press release would suggest. He is the top bloke, and wouldn't bother if there was no commitment to the route.

6 It was confirmed that early afternoon there will be 2 BA aircraft on the deck at LBA together and 2 LBA departures to LHR within 50 minutes of each other

It seems to me that these schedules are aimed principally at providing two morning flights from LHR to collect pax arriving on the very early morning wave of long haul pax and then those arrriving a little later without making them wait until lunch time, and as has already been pointed out, the first flight to LHR links nicely with a large number of outbound long haul flights. Most of these arrive at LHR early morning, so they leave later in the morning, not first thing.

I expect that over time the schedules will be tweaked, and whilst I still have some fears about slot sitting, I feel more confident after today that BA have committed to this route. Time will tell, but I suspect that it will be up to the Yorkshire Business Community to support it to a degree where BA can't afford to drop it. One thing is for certain, if they do, it won't come back again.

 

[Jordan-34092]

Well all I can say is Im planning a trip to new York sometime next year and was originally going to from MAN, won't fly KlM out of the way to america, but now with BA here I'm deffo gonna use this service.

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[Jordan-34092]

Just been on the BA website, and done a quick search and for the price breakdown between LBA - LHR the fare is only a mere fiver, yet all the taxes and charges come in at £104.

So if that the case the airline will only be making a fiver per passenger on average.

Here the full break down of the charges and tax.


Government, authority and airport charges Per adult
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom GBP26.00
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP41.22
Total government, authority and airport charges* GBP67.22
More information

British Airways fees and surcharges Per adult
Fuel Surcharge** GBP37.00
Total British Airways fees and surcharges GBP37.00
More information

Total taxes, fees and surcharges per person GBP104.22

 

[cmj]

Just been on the BA website, and done a quick search and for the price breakdown between LBA - LHR the fare is only a mere fiver, yet all the taxes and charges come in at £104.

So if that the case the airline will only be making a fiver per passenger on average.

I think this is part of the reason they're going for the long-haul connections. BA aren't going to make money shifting folks between Leeds and London, but they can make money shifting folks between Leeds and New York, for example.

I spent a bit of time earlier trying various itineraries on the BA website and the timings seem to work well, and with the OneWorld network there are a lot of connections.

Part of me is tempted to get a ticket for the first service out of LBA, but I'm not sure what I'd do on a sunday in London, apart from fly back on a later flight