British Airways

[XEROX]

Gents an interesting discussion

Personally speaking I think theirs too many variables at play which suggests this maybe a longer term bet by British Airways. One of those variables is today’s announcement between Virgin and Delta, and also Virgin starting Intra-UK flights from Manchester and Scotland.

The dynamics have changed and carriers like BA and Virgin are going out and seeking feeder traffic from the regions. But lets be optimistic and give the route a chance, im hopeful it will be a success, world renowned airlines like BA would surely do their homework before committing to these new operations.

 

[Aviador]

I think BA were a bit too ambitious with a 4x daily to Heathrow. But I agree that the S13 times for the morning and evening flights need to change.The route would appeal to more people if the morning flight departed LHR at 07:30 and arrives into LBA at 08:15 whilst the evening flight should depart LHR at 20:30 and arrives into LBA at 21:15. The return flight in the morning should depart LBA at 09:00 and arrives into LHR at 09:45 whilst the evening flight should depart LBA at 22:00 and arrives into LHR at 22:45.

I've heard a few people saying BA have been too ambitious with a 4 x daily operation but the trouble with reducing rotations is you loose the connections which is what the route is all about. A passenger travelling LBA-LHR-JFK (or other) is what British Airways will primarily be looking for not your day return shoppers looking out for a cheap bargain.

What killed the BMI Heathrow flights was the introduction of self check-in machines that business users didn't want. They turned what was a otherwise a good operation supported by businessmen and women into a pointless operation they didn't really want. The problem wasn't unique to LBA, BMI lost all their 'steet cred' at every airport. The rest is history.

The majority of the staff working for BA at LBA work for Servisair and from what I have witnessed so far they are operating an excellent customer service team which will go a long way in providing customers with what they want and expect.

 

[ridgeback]

I think there are some merits in the new schedule!

The early northbound is good for inbound LH connections for a start. The current 0700/1100 is a disaster for that.

 

[Sherburnflyer92]

They are useless times. LBA should demand better flight times, BA should be able to compete with KLM not compete with it's self by offering even shitter times.
This route may take off in the new year, and they are going to do that to the route. Then they'll come back with the PR bull sh*t of the route doesn't have sufficent loads blah blah blah blah blah blah blah.

 

[Malaga]

I think we can all kiss the Heathrow service goodbye!

A summer 1135 start to Heathrow is absolutely useless...never mind justifying any connections.

It has to be a night stopper for an early start (for a lot of reasons previously discussed) or nothing.

I for one will be travelling KLM and not BA!

As previously discussed, BA have no commitment to LBA and are just keeping the slots for future use elsewhere.

I predict the service will cease in the autumn.

Regards

Malaga

 

[ryan]

I'd just like to point out that the vast majority of BA long haul departures are in the afternoon, so even the earliest flight arriving at 10:25 will be able to connect to anything after about midday. If you want a day in London, there's a perfectly good train service, that's probably a lot quicker!

 

[Jordan-34092]

BA1340 LHR - LBA Ok connections for the BA flights that start to come in at 5am from Asia and Australia, with some of the USA one's arriving at this time.

BA1341 LBA - LHR Good connections for the late morning and afternoon flights to USA, Middle East, South America.

BA1346 LHR - LBA Good connections from the morning flights that come in from USA, South America, Middle East, Asia, Europe

BA1347 LBA - LHR Good connections with afternoon flights to USA, South America, Europe, Asia, Middle East

BA1342 LHR - LBA Good Connections with early afternoon flights from USA, Europe, Asia, Africa,

BA1343 LBA - LHR Good connections for the evening flights to USA, Middle East, Africa, Australia, Asia, South America and some European flights

BA1344 LHR - LBA Ok connections from most of the flights coming into LHR

BA1345 LBA - LHR Worst connection of all as it misses practically all long haul flights from LHR, only thing it is ideal for is those who are staying in a hotel in London for the night before flying out first thing in the morning.


Regards to LHR - LBA point to points, these times are not catered for these kind of flights as BA know there is little money in this, they want people who are connecting to use the service as this has more value to them.

End of day i think the flights times are reasonable with the only exception the last flight from LBA - LHR

 

[LBAYORKIE]

So, to facilitate those of us who travel to Heathrow and back in a day (currently by car!) would require the aircraft to be based at LBA and the cost of this would not be recouped from the relativey low fares charged for point to point. The load factors would go up but not the profitability.

Point seems to have been made though that by having an early morning departure there would be more connections available so more pax would be generated which are not point to point.

On this basis then surely an early morning departure by a based aircraft could be justified as there would be an increase in interliners and point to point!

Lbayorkie

 

[cmj]

Now if they pushed BA1344 back a bit to 7:30 or 8 and turned it into a night stopper (BA1345 returning to LHR maybe 7am the next day) it may be more useful for the earlier departures, and point to point traffic.

 

[channex 757]

BA1340 LHR - LBA Ok connections for the BA flights that start to come in at 5am from Asia and Australia, with some of the USA one's arriving at this time.

BA1341 LBA - LHR Good connections for the late morning and afternoon flights to USA, Middle East, South America.

BA1346 LHR - LBA Good connections from the morning flights that come in from USA, South America, Middle East, Asia, Europe

BA1347 LBA - LHR Good connections with afternoon flights to USA, South America, Europe, Asia, Middle East

BA1342 LHR - LBA Good Connections with early afternoon flights from USA, Europe, Asia, Africa,

BA1343 LBA - LHR Good connections for the evening flights to USA, Middle East, Africa, Australia, Asia, South America and some European flights

BA1344 LHR - LBA Ok connections from most of the flights coming into LHR

BA1345 LBA - LHR Worst connection of all as it misses practically all long haul flights from LHR, only thing it is ideal for is those who are staying in a hotel in London for the night before flying out first thing in the morning.


Regards to LHR - LBA point to points, these times are not catered for these kind of flights as BA know there is little money in this, they want people who are connecting to use the service as this has more value to them.

End of day i think the flights times are reasonable with the only exception the last flight from LBA - LHR

Yep I agree with you.I think the flight times aren't as bad as most people are making out and they suit the needs of people catching connecting flights, which is what BA want

 

[Aviador]

Another point worth adding is general passenger loads have been very poor during November and December and I wouldn't be at all surprised to see this reflected in the November stats when they're released within the next few days.

 

[User0001]

I couldn't articulate myself last night as on a mobile device, but just to break this down.

That not so true, bmi british midland killed the route as they were been lead on by there German owners. Lufthansa wanted the Heathrow slots so that they could open up more German routes

But you have to ask yourself, why, out of ALL the bmi routes at the time, was LBA cut, and not say, Manchester frequencies to save LBA? MAN had 3 flights on bmi that arrived within 30 minutes of each other, why not one or 2 of those flights cut instead of dropping an entre destination if Lufthansa were just after the slots? I think you are kidding yourself

The thing I am getting at, is that the local population has not supported a London route the way it should.

Its easy to say 'LGW is not LHR', it does not matter, as it shows lack of support for the route. Its easy to say 'LH wanted to cut routes', but then ask why a particular route was cut.

The simple fact is, whether people on here like to admit it or not, people ARE NOT supporting the LHR route. 12 people on an A319, capacity 144, is not 'showing support' for a route. The reason the 4th daily has been cancelled is that forward bookings in the next few months are poor, and due to the low loads, fares are still low so poor yields. On some days in January for example, LBA-LHR is carrying as few as 47 people spread over 4 flights!!!!

So, you can chastise me all you like on here, its a forum where I don't know anyone, so, believe it or not, doesn't bother me what you think of me. However, facts are facts, and if the London route was so successful, where are flybe on LGW? Why didn't bmi continue the route, and why is BA cutting a 4th daily flight already? You can make any excuse you like, but, with bmi in particular like I have said, why was LBA totally cut instead of at least frequencies on other routes if Lufthansa were just after slots?

If you don't like what I write, that's fine, local pride does get in the way of rational debate sometimes and I understand that, but sometimes, the truth is just a little more plain and obvious than it can first seem, and as they say, it hurts.

 

[rmac]

It is extremely disappointing to read the negative comments so far re: LBA and BA.
Surely a city of Leeds size and relative wealth, plus a large catchment area , should and could support at least a 3 times daily service to Heathrow. Whilst I appreciate the fact that Edinburgh is twice as far to London as Leeds is and has the support of a fairly bouyant tourist market just look at the flights from Edinburgh to Heathrow alone, with the probability of Virgin adding another 6 in the Spring! Then there are multiple flights to Gatwick, Stansted, Luton, City and connecting flights via Frankfurt, Paris, Amsterdam, Newark, Dublin. So how come Leeds struggles to attract 3 flights daily to one of the biggest hubs in the world. Okay - so Manchester is nearby, but then Glasgow is nearby to Edinburgh.
Can the business communities in Leeds, Bradford, Harrogate, York etc, all together bigger than Edinburgh/Glasgow work together to ensure this vital connection remains alive and thriving- if lost I doubt it will return and even LH and AF will be put off coming to Yorkshire. I sincerely hope they will - Yorkshire needs it more than ever before. LBA have done their part, so has BA - now it is up to the good folk of West Yorkshire to USE IT (or lose it)

 

[Huddy]

My god, I'm glad some of you are not manning the Samaritans Helpline...

Early days, flights will be chopped & changed, its about finding the right balance

 

[michael]

The mention of Edinburgh and Glasgow made me think to say that a B767 is often used on these routes on night stoppers yet Manchester always appears to be A319/320's. I think this all comes down to distance form London and I think I'll be right in saying LBA and MAN will be the shortest links to LHR. As 'Huddy' says its early days, wrong time of year, dark cold nights and mornings don't exactly encourage most folk out if they don't have to go. Come on Guys, give it a chance, adjustments will be made but at the moment some folk seem to have vendetta against this route already.

 

[planespotter1333]

Where did you take that picture ?

 

[rmac]

There is no vendetta. We want it to work... I think it will in time. The potential is there for it to be a good profitable route. It reminds me of the small town with one petrol station but prices are higher than in the supermarket miles away so everyone uses the local garage when absolutey necessary but fills up when at the supermarket and then complains when the local garage closes down. Somehow, and this is the difficult part - getting as many as possible to use something even when at first it might seem cheaper, easier, to use the alternative. If persisting in time a better product/service is provided to the advantage of all. Did'nt BMi put on the LBA - London City route because people said they would use it, but then didn't and the route was cut. All I am saying is - now is the time to get behind the Heathrow route, get booking up for the months ahead and show BA ' we need and want this route'.

 

[Aviador]

User001

You said yourself in a previous post that advanced passenger numbers remain low on the similar Manchester Heathrow flights until only a short period before the flights are due to operate so it seems pointless now talking about advanced bookings at LBA in January.

 

[Malaga]

Many people talk about the Heathrow times being useful for long haul connections....but I think there is more to the story.

I personally think that a service to Heathrow should cater for as wide a range of travellers as possible.

First of all you have the long haul travellers connecting to the rest of the world.

Secondly, you have travellers for short haul....mostly europe who would want an early morning start so that they do not arrive at their destinations too late so that the whole day is not wasted.

Thirdly you have travellers to Heathrow, many I know have to do business in the West London area and would find it a useful link.

Fourthly, I know many people do business at the airport itself, either in a nearby hotel or the airport itself if clients are transiting through to other destinations and use Heathrow as a business stopover.

The original BM times from the past were almost perfect times for the type of travellers mentioned above and acounted for the large number of passengers originally on the service. I am not sure that the train service would have affected things that much because Heathrow to the centre of London was not the easiest journey to make.

I think that any airline to be successful should cater for as wide a traveller type as possible and as a result would benefit from economies of scale in that larger aircraft can be used with lower seat costs and smaller ones are not flying with empty seats.

Regards

Malaga

 

[User0001]

You said yourself in a previous post that advanced passenger numbers remain low on the similar Manchester Heathrow flights until only a short period before the flights are due to operate so it seems pointless now talking about advanced bookings at LBA in January

The difference is, MAN has 11 daily flights, and the 'low' loads are 40-50 pax, not the 12-13 LBA has on just 4 daily flights.

The fact is, BA need to plan how best to use their Summer 2013 capacity. MAN is a guaranteed winner for BA, they know they can get at least 75% on all 11 flights.

LBA thus far, has failed to get over 50% loads, and forward bookings have followed the same trend that the current low loads are dictating.

Therefore, BA have seen fit to re-deploy the A319 on a route that will make more money. It also speaks volumes that they thought an A320 would be needed, thus far, a cityflyer EMB190 could do the job.