Birmingham: (BHX) - General Thread

[Ray Finkle]

Belgium has also banned travel from the UK although at the moment that is only for 24 hours.

There are reports that Germany may follow soon.

 

[Matt995]

Italy now banning UK flights, France to follow? Looks like we are leaving Europe even earlier now!

All UK airports are going to be deserted for at least the next few weeks.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Lufthansa flights to both Birmingham and Manchester this evening are canx.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Ireland to bring in a 48 hour travel suspension.

48-hour ban on flights from UK over new Covid-19 strain

The Government is to impose a 48-hour ban on flights from Britain following fears over the spread of a new strain of Covid-19, while ferries will be limited to freight travel.

www.rte.ie

There are reports of a potential ban to Europe until 6th Jan.

 

[andrew.clarkson]

Hi there Aviador, whats happening with these flights been suspended or cancelled from Birmingham Airport to Europe..AndyC

 

[IanFarquharson]

Hi there Aviador, whats happening with these flights been suspended or cancelled from Birmingham Airport to Europe..AndyC

KLM and Lufthansa are operating inbound and returning empty
Wizz cancelled as have Turkish and others

 

[Brum X]

If 2020 couldn't get any worse , after my christmas break I will be locking my door and only leaving for a food shop twice a week. On the 1st March 2021 I might poke my nose outside and hopefully smell a whiff of spring air. Only then will I decide whether to venture out or not.


Happy christmas folks and hopefully a happier new year after March

 

[Brum X]

Sorry WMP but you are taking the biscuit and I have one word to say to anybody walking around the perimiter of BHX Plane spotting, CARRY ON.

You are being a "jobsworth"

Tier 4 or no Tier 4, plane spotting is an outside hobby and as long as you are sticking to the rules and doing social distance, no harm is being done.

 

[Matty_85]

Sorry WMP but you are taking the biscuit and I have one word to say to anybody walking around the perimiter of BHX Plane spotting, CARRY ON.

You are being a "jobsworth"

Tier 4 or no Tier 4, plane spotting is an outside hobby and as long as you are sticking to the rules and doing social distance, no harm is being done.

What happened?

 

[Brum X]

What happened?

Oh sorry I didn't copy the article, here it is.

I know Tier 4 is stay at home but seriously. I can walk around the perimiter of BHX all day long if I wanted too but I can't stop and do some plane spotting. Nah not having that, we need common sense too.

Police patrols at Birmingham Airport as plane spotters told to go home

Police are doing spot checks at the perimeter of Birmingham Airport to ensure anyone going there has a valid reason under Tier 4 - and plane-spotting isn't one of them

www.birminghammail.co.uk

 

[TheLocalYokel]

In tier 4 you are allowed to leave home for exercise. Plane-spotting per se is not exercise and there is the likelihood, probable certainty in some cases, that people won't maintain social distancing when doing so as plane spotters are often social animals when it come to their hobby and love to chat with fellow spotters.

I'm with the police on this one. The more people can be discouraged from gathering together in any situation the better for us all in the long run.

 

[JENNYJET]

Balance of judgment and probability, as my lecturer would illustrate. In an open outdoor environment, one is relatively safer than indoors irrespective of human contact. My understanding of this matter is Airport Police are securing a private property open to the public and are actively preventing a harm by discouraging gatherings though this would be difficult in the terminal building. Were the alleged offenders socially distancing and masked? Part of a social or family bubble? We're any operational instructions lawful under whichever Act of Parliament? I can expand if asked but this is a friendly forum and not a law tutorial!

Myself personally am a solitaire, spotting is a private time to observe and learn without the constant wittering of companions in my ear so I tend to place some distance between myself and others, discretely but without reason for doubt!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Balance of judgment and probability, as my lecturer would illustrate. In an open outdoor environment, one is relatively safer than indoors irrespective of human contact. My understanding of this matter is Airport Police are securing a private property open to the public and are actively preventing a harm by discouraging gatherings though this would be difficult in the terminal building. Were the alleged offenders socially distancing and masked? Part of a social or family bubble? We're any operational instructions lawful under whichever Act of Parliament? I can expand if asked but this is a friendly forum and not a law tutorial!

Myself personally am a solitaire, spotting is a private time to observe and learn without the constant wittering of companions in my ear so I tend to place some distance between myself and others, discretely but without reason for doubt!

One would think or at least hope that the West Midlands Police have taken advice from their own legal officers on this. Does plane-spotting come within the remit set out for tier 4 residents? See below. If police action was challenged only a court could decide whether it was legal or not.

If you live in Tier 4 you must not leave or be outside of your home or garden except where you have a ‘reasonable excuse’. A reasonable excuse includes:If you live in Tier 4 you must not leave or be outside of your home or garden except where you have a ‘reasonable excuse’. A reasonable excuse includes:

People can also exercise outdoors or visit some public outdoor places, such as parks, the countryside accessible to the public, public gardens or outdoor sports facilities. You can continue to do unlimited exercise alone, or in a public outdoor place with your household, support bubble, or with one other person if you maintain social distancing. You should follow the guidance on meeting others safely

As with so many things, and the virus is the latest and a very serious example, police forces and individual officers can be damned if they do and damned if they don't. Some people believe that police forces have overreacted in their attempts to make practical sense of virus legislation and others complain that they don't do enough.

If spotters do continue to watch what action there is at the moment at BHX and are not prevented from so doing let's hope that they are sensible and socially distance, and don't congregate in groups that are not permitted within a tier 4 area. There would seem to be a difference between marching around the countryside that happens to surround an airport in order to exercise and standing outside an airport perimeter fence to plane-spot. The first would appear to be permissible but the second doubtful although, as I said earlier, only a court could decide definitively.

 

[JENNYJET]

I forgot to mention common sense in my posting, is Sheldon Country Park a permitted area for suitable exercise or Hatchfood Brook? This is detail that legislators cannot consider as each area has it's own peculiarities but a Police officer with his batteries installed can ask his inspector before initiating an action that can bring legal challenge in the higher courts.

 

[Coathanger16]

So someone going for a walk around Sheldon Country Park is ok, but someone sat on one of the benches in the park watching aircraft isn't?

Planespotters aren't like football crowds - they don't congregate in large numbers. Even at Heathrow where you see larger numbers of people, they're never in groups of more than 2 or 3, and each group is socially distanced (even pre-Covid).

If anything standing still watching planes is less risky than exercising as you won't be exhaling as much.

Of course we all remember the massive spike in cases in May following the protests where thousands of people mixed in massive crowds...oh wait a minute

 

[Brum X]

It appears WMP have either changed there mind on the subject or the local rag got the wrong end of the stick.

At the end of the day it's about common sense and as long as there is social distance, I am in the yes camp. The last time I looked we didn't live in the people's republic of North Korea. Not that I will be visiting BHX, I am now locked in until March, but for many others going over to the airport for a couple of hours may prevent more serious harm to them in the coming months from mental health issues.

They have now issued this statemnet on the matter:

View attachment 21247

 

[JENNYJET]

Common sense is all it takes!

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Common sense is all it takes!

It's the most valuable quality that a street police officer can possess.

WMP's clarification indicates that their concern is spotters gathering in groups which is what I suggested in my original post on the subject. From what has been said by those who know about BHX there isn't usually a problem with congregation which is not my experience when I've visited the main spotters' area at my local airport, BRS. Perhaps there is a lot more space where BHX spotters gather.

Anyway, the matter seems to have been resolved through common sense as JENNY JET has pointed out.

 

[KARFA]

In tier 4 you are allowed to leave home for exercise. Plane-spotting per se is not exercise and there is the likelihood, probable certainty in some cases, that people won't maintain social distancing when doing so as plane spotters are often social animals when it come to their hobby and love to chat with fellow spotters.

I'm with the police on this one. The more people can be discouraged from gathering together in any situation the better for us all in the long run.

Plane spotting would fall under this exception as long as you are only doing it with members of your own household (the exercise exception is a separate one and I agree spotting is not exercise);

to visit a public outdoor place for the purposes of open air recreation

The police have clarified now to say their concern was that people may be gathering with other spotters which wouldn't be allowed rather than spotting itself.

 

[Matty_85]

As someone who doesn’t have an aviation background (I’m a marketing person) could anyone quickly brief me on how likely demand is actually calculated and how that varies based on price & the product being offered? It baffles me that wizz can launch a viable Abu Dhabi route from Athens & some Greek islands but the likes of Birmingham Airport (with the highest GDP outside of London & a vast catchment from Lemington Spa, to Leicester, Shrewsbury & Wales) can’t justify a daily New York flight, Orlando or Toronto connection. I just don’t buy this low yield catchment argument. If there was a decent disruptive player in the market who actually turned the current strategy and promoted how good the connections are to Birmingham Airport; as long as the price and product itself was good I think it could be hugely successful. So frustrating to see the potential loss of Qatar too! I think BHX needs a really good marketing strategy that promotes it as a gateway to the country because that just obviously isn’t cutting through with airlines or the public perception of the airport. I somehow remember a ‘London Birmingham Airport’ tag being mooted in the papers some years back... maybe that wasn’t such a bad idea?