Birmingham Airport - General Thread

[Ray Finkle]

Airports get a lot of stick on social media, it's an easy outlet when things do quite go to plan.

It's great to finally see a heart warming story with one particular employee going out of her way to help others.

A credit to which ever company she works for

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153526490572434&id=545182433

 

[Brum X]

Airports get a lot of stick on social media, it's an easy outlet when things do quite go to plan.

It's great to finally see a heart warming story with one particular employee going out of her way to help others.

A credit to which ever company she works for

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10153526490572434&id=545182433

Indeed, and it is true. When something goes wrong, everybody knows about it but I bet every day at BHX there are lots of great stuff happening and we don't get to hear about it. All we hear about is when things go wrong. Well done Zita

 

[JENNYJET]

I honestly believe that most people do not have the slightest idea what needs to occur in order for then to firstly board an aircraft yet alone get to wherever in one piece. We enthusiasts may know collectively the nuts and bolts about air ops and airline business practices but I am certain the average passenger thinks everything is about his or her experience from check-in to baggage retrieval and nothing else matters.

The current generation of lowcost travelers think Ryanair and Easyjet is normal, just like getting on an omnibus ( avoiding the words Bus and Air to avoid confusing the dears ), just getting on, bagging a seat and doing what comes naturally to them with perhaps kids in tow kicking the back of your own seat?

Myself? Well before my illnesses took me away from travelling, I was a user of BA, Kenya Airways and Sri Lankan/AirLanka frequently and always found the experience delightful. Never hurried, every need catered for, a cabin crew that could manage passengers firmly but courtiously if necessary, perhaps excepting the occasional noisy American!!

It is about expectations, what is one paying for when you purchase a ticket? One is purchasing a passage to a destination, not a seat , meals, favours, toilet facilities, food or water. This is what Ryanair exploits with great aplomb and today's generation accept it often without a second thought.

On the Legacy carriers, all those things are bundled into the ticket price not to mention the taxes and charges that Ryanair add separately.

Oranges and Lemons, you choose but complain at your leisure.

The one thought remains in my mind, our Grandparents would never have dreamt of crossing the Atlantic, 3000+ miles, and arrive within minutes of the advertised time on the same day, and when Concorde was in service, before your watch told you that you had departed. Such feats were considered Witchcraft in the olden day's and we used to burn witches did we not?

I never take air travel for granted, we passengers simply purchase passage and a huge logistical operation is necessary to transport us to our pleasures or our work.

Here endeth the lesson, Amen.

 

[Jerry]

I honestly believe that most people do not have the slightest idea what needs to occur in order for then to firstly board an aircraft yet alone get to wherever in one piece. We enthusiasts may know collectively the nuts and bolts about air ops and airline business practices but I am certain the average passenger thinks everything is about his or her experience from check-in to baggage retrieval and nothing else matters.

The current generation of lowcost travelers think Ryanair and Easyjet is normal, just like getting on an omnibus ( avoiding the words Bus and Air to avoid confusing the dears ), just getting on, bagging a seat and doing what comes naturally to them with perhaps kids in tow kicking the back of your own seat?

Myself? Well before my illnesses took me away from travelling, I was a user of BA, Kenya Airways and Sri Lankan/AirLanka frequently and always found the experience delightful. Never hurried, every need catered for, a cabin crew that could manage passengers firmly but courtiously if necessary, perhaps excepting the occasional noisy American!!

It is about expectations, what is one paying for when you purchase a ticket? One is purchasing a passage to a destination, not a seat , meals, favours, toilet facilities, food or water. This is what Ryanair exploits with great aplomb and today's generation accept it often without a second thought.

On the Legacy carriers, all those things are bundled into the ticket price not to mention the taxes and charges that Ryanair add separately.

Oranges and Lemons, you choose but complain at your leisure.

The one thought remains in my mind, our Grandparents would never have dreamt of crossing the Atlantic, 3000+ miles, and arrive within minutes of the advertised time on the same day, and when Concorde was in service, before your watch told you that you had departed. Such feats were considered Witchcraft in the olden day's and we used to burn witches did we not?

I never take air travel for granted, we passengers simply purchase passage and a huge logistical operation is necessary to transport us to our pleasures or our work.

Here endeth the lesson, Amen.

Many people just take air travel for granted it's just a flying bus to them they take it for granted. For me when i travel it's about the experience and the journey and the aircraft and airport and the airline. I don't mind adding on extra time to my journey if it means i get to experience something new. Many people are just in a rush and don't just sit back and enjoy the journey.

 

[Ray Finkle]

Indeed, and it is true. When something goes wrong, everybody knows about it but I bet every day at BHX there are lots of great stuff happening and we don't get to hear about it. All we hear about is when things go wrong. Well done Zita

It's great to see that this lady is getting the recognition that she deserves

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/carrie-doyle-chickenpox-family_uk_578f7b7ee4b046a0b61459a9

 

[ronnoc1k8]

Birmingham on google maps has now been updated, which means you can see the full airport runway extension and the airport as of recent months.

 

[JENNYJET]

Mental Health warning.....

A waffle is coming your way!

Now that Google and as a consequence FR24 have current terrain, I am struck down by the true extent of the constraints that BHX operate on a daily basis and God only knows how we got to 10 Millions of travelers. I simply cannot see how we can see 13, 15 millions without major expansion of terminal and aircraft apron space. God only knows where a second runway can fit in? HS2? Fairy dust?

I am somewhat disappointed that the runway extension appears so trivial, to the Birdseye view at least and am wondering exactly why it was actioned given new aircraft capabilities and with the older 4 engine fleets disappearing as quickly as my teeth!

However , my main concern is with the built on-site structures that service the public and the aircraft.

I have mentioned this before, the short haul low-cost operations should move to Elmdon and the entire area should be developed to include the original terminal building as a centrepiece perhaps at the expense of the Freeport facility ( if it still exists ), and/or the General Aviation area with a new area specifically for Private Jets at the R15 area where Hatchford Brook currently provides a limited recreational activity for a few that can afford the game of Golf.

The current main terminal can be devoted to medium to long haul services and be branded as such. We could then reintroduce Terminal One and Terminal Two to provide a marker to passengers and travel providers in equal measure.


A further thought is that providing parking spaces for servicing aircraft for turnaround with underground tunnels connected to the terminal could avoid the need for building up top of existing building or building underneath structures. Passengers could then board a shuttle train to the aircraft as could baggage in a similar fashion, above ground it would appear little activity is ongoing.

I suppose I am thinking about Singapore or Hong Kong where surface space is limited thus one builds high or tunnels low to create room to expand and breath.

Another option, and I can expect my expulsion from this forum for suggesting this, is to offer JLS the opportunity to close the Solihull site to enable a new Terminal for the Airport, in return for the expansion of freight facilities at the airport with no charges of fees in perpetuity. The current car assembly plant could be rebuilt along side or near to a brownfield site nearby the M42.

 

[Brum X]

You make some good "waffle" points Jen

 

[jfy1999]

God only knows how we got to 10 Millions of travellers

I ask the same when I look at Luton which is on an even more constrained site but has already reached and surpassed those kind of numbers.

The interesting thing is that LTN's two biggest tenants, easyJet and Wizz Air, have both been hit hard by the economic developments since the Brexit referendum. Easy could lose as much as £40 million according to their CEO, and Wizz will slash their UK growth plans by 50% which will affect LTN a lot more than BHX (hope they didn't have big plans for BHX though!).

Could LTN hit the buffers as a result of this and allow BHX to overtake? Just a thought...

I am somewhat disappointed that the runway extension appears so trivial, to the Birdseye view at least and am wondering exactly why it was actioned given new aircraft capabilities and with the older 4 engine fleets disappearing as quickly as my teeth!

The new breed of mid/long haul narrow body aircraft (737 MAX and A321neo) need that runway if they're going to fly to places like the USA. Norwegian have both types on order so we've got the infrastructure to handle them if they want to set up shop here. Fully loaded A321s also need the runway to fly to Egypt and The Gambia.

The airlines that will take advantage of the runway most, though, are low cost airlines like Ryanair (yes, Ryanair), who like long runways because they can save fuel and money by taking off with lower engine power settings.

 

[JENNYJET]

Thank you jfy1999, it is those little details that bypass most of us. My respects.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

The airlines that will take advantage of the runway most, though, are low cost airlines like Ryanair (yes, Ryanair), who like long runways because they can save fuel and money by taking off with lower engine power settings.

I totally agree. This also reduces engine wear (and thus maintenance costs), noise and emissions (possibly avoiding fines).
I think I've mentioned before, about a flightdeck visit (before they were banned) with Air New Zealand (B747-400) from LHR to LAX. On enquiring about take off performance, the Captain stated that only 75% power was required with a full aircraft due to the long runway length.
I realise that LHR has runways far longer than the international 'standard' of 10000ft/3000m, but it's easy to envisage the benefit of BHX's runway extension to even the short haul operators.
There are also operational advantages for BHX and the airlines that use it, especially when runway 33 is in use. On several occasions, I have seen aircraft waiting at both E1 (the old holding point for R33) and S1 (the new holding point for the extension at R33). This allows BHC ATC to better organise departures, depending on their take off distance requirements.
Also, when landing runway 33, many more aircraft will exit the runway at taxiway B rather than rolling to the end and using taxiway A.
For those wanting to see a recent airport layout, have a look at -

http://www.gcmap.com/diagrams/pdf/EGBB.pdf

Regards

Kevin

 

[CL44]

I have mentioned this before, the short haul low-cost operations should move to Elmdon and the entire area should be developed to include the original terminal building as a centrepiece perhaps at the expense of the Freeport facility ( if it still exists ),

The Freeport does still exist (now known as The Gateway Estate) but is NOT under any Customs control as it was when originally built. The barrier which divided the Customs Controlled area was removed a long time ago and the whole estate is now a general facility only. I can't see where getting rid of this estate would actually assist in the big scheme of things however. To use the space we would need to dispose of the building used by WFS and Swissport (both of which are still handling import and export traffic despite the rise of Dnata) and the access points for both Monarch and Marshalls would need to be relocated whilst still allowing for security access. Perhaps a better way of arranging things would be to remove Hangar 2 and then redevelop the space from Hangar 2 down towards the old Terminal. The space left vacant by Hangar 1 is now being used for snow-clearing equipment and on occasions has been laid out for driver training (tugs etc). Perhaps a single level terminal for either low cost with GA still being handled within the old Terminal might be a way forward? The issue then becomes where would the freighters be handled? Freighters (while a long way behind what EMA has) are still an important contributor to the Airport with revenue. I also recall seeing a rumour about EMA sending some of their freighter operations over here while work is being done at EMA over Winter (has anyone heard any update about this?).

Whilst it is very nice indeed to have the passenger numbers increasing month on month please don't forget your humble freight agents who have been neglected over the last number of years. We still put revenue through the Airport on a daily basis (but obviously not in as glamorous a fashion as the passenger operations). Donkeys years ago there where whispers of a dedicated freight village here at BHX which faded away almost as quickly as the average Summer for the UK. This was admittedly back in the days when there was a real community of freight forwarders on the Airport (before the Big Boys started their buy-outs of the small to medium Agents). Some of us are still here (and will remain kicking and screaming while we still have breath to draw).

 

[TheLocalYokel]

For those wanting to see a recent airport layout, have a look at -

Looking at the airport layout map linked with Kevin's post, I hadn't realised that the Elmdon apron and associated buildings were on the far side of the runway from the main apron and terminal. I've only used BHX once (well, twice counting there and back) but hadn't really been aware of the overall layout - it was dark on our outbound anyway. BHX was an excellent experience and we'd use it again if the opportunity arose.

So what is the Elmdon apron and what is it used for? The name suggests it may be part of the original airport complex.

 

[jfy1999]

Yep, the Elmdon terminal and apron once handled all flights at BHX. There used to be nothing on the eastern side of the runway. Now the Elmdon site is used for cargo, GA and executive flights.

 

[Jerry]

Mental Health warning.....

A waffle is coming your way!

Now that Google and as a consequence FR24 have current terrain, I am struck down by the true extent of the constraints that BHX operate on a daily basis and God only knows how we got to 10 Millions of travelers. I simply cannot see how we can see 13, 15 millions without major expansion of terminal and aircraft apron space. God only knows where a second runway can fit in? HS2? Fairy dust?

I am somewhat disappointed that the runway extension appears so trivial, to the Birdseye view at least and am wondering exactly why it was actioned given new aircraft capabilities and with the older 4 engine fleets disappearing as quickly as my teeth!

However , my main concern is with the built on-site structures that service the public and the aircraft.

I have mentioned this before, the short haul low-cost operations should move to Elmdon and the entire area should be developed to include the original terminal building as a centrepiece perhaps at the expense of the Freeport facility ( if it still exists ), and/or the General Aviation area with a new area specifically for Private Jets at the R15 area where Hatchford Brook currently provides a limited recreational activity for a few that can afford the game of Golf.

The current main terminal can be devoted to medium to long haul services and be branded as such. We could then reintroduce Terminal One and Terminal Two to provide a marker to passengers and travel providers in equal measure.


A further thought is that providing parking spaces for servicing aircraft for turnaround with underground tunnels connected to the terminal could avoid the need for building up top of existing building or building underneath structures. Passengers could then board a shuttle train to the aircraft as could baggage in a similar fashion, above ground it would appear little activity is ongoing.

I suppose I am thinking about Singapore or Hong Kong where surface space is limited thus one builds high or tunnels low to create room to expand and breath.

Another option, and I can expect my expulsion from this forum for suggesting this, is to offer JLS the opportunity to close the Solihull site to enable a new Terminal for the Airport, in return for the expansion of freight facilities at the airport with no charges of fees in perpetuity. The current car assembly plant could be rebuilt along side or near to a brownfield site nearby the M42.

I would have thought they had extended the runway so they can take all types of aircraft? I don't know how long the runway was before. Having A380 flights is prestigious as there are many airports who would want them. Though i wonder how BHX would cope if LHR got a third runway.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Many thanks, jfy1999.

 

[richard winterbourn]

For Elmdon to be included in any current strategy to cope with growing loco pax, then it really should have been included in past 'long-term' plans. To my knowledge it wasn't and probably for the reason that the airport authorities wanted to move on from a cramped, outdated terminal built at a time more suitable to Biggles!

However, i do remember seeing a plan some 15 - 20 years ago which, while a bit visionary, detailed a new round satellite terminal on the area to the north of the main terminal. Whether that was dropped as a future plan or whether it is still there i do not know.

But even this, if it is still on the drawing board, will not solve the impending problem; planning, the timescale and high costs of construction i think rule it out. I believe the current problem would be best served by a new loco terminal leading from the main terminal and running alongside the railway line. This would not create problems of getting pax to Elmdon and might even offer the possibility of direct access from Birmingham International, thus alleviating main terminal of upward of 1+million pax.

With the likelihood of RYR having 5 based in S17 and Flybe seemingly increasing their offering year-on-year, what is referred to as Terminal 2 will not offer any solution.

I have faith in the airport authorities and look forward to their master plan and its aspirations both short, medium and long-term.

 

[Kevin Farnell]

I would have thought they had extended the runway so they can take all types of aircraft?

Hi Jerry

That is indeed the case. Prior to the extension, direct services to the west coast of the USA, China/Hong Kong and Japan were not possible due to weight restrictions (thus limiting fuel upload). The infrastructure is now in place, so hopefully services to these and other long haul destinations will appear in the future. The only aircraft type that I know to be incompatible with BHX, is the A340-600. This is due to the wheelbase between the nosewheel and main gear, making it unable to negotiate the taxiway curve radii. The radii of the taxiway curves at BHX comply fully with ICAO regulations.

I don't know how long the runway was before.

I remember back in the 1970's the runway length (15/33), was 7400ft (2255m). With the development of the new terminal and the parallel taxiway, 'starter strips' were added to each end of the runway. I believe these were around 500ft (152m) each, but were only of taxiway width. These were eventually widened to the full runway width giving a total runway length of approx 8400ft (2560m). The recent extension took the runway to 10013ft (3052m).
Please note that operational specifications such as take off run available and landing distance available can vary significantly from the stated runway length, due to obstacle clearance and displaced thresholds.

Regards

Kevin

 

[Ray Finkle]

I also recall seeing a rumour about EMA sending some of their freighter operations over here while work is being done at EMA over Winter (has anyone heard any update about this?).

The last I heard is that we will see UPS over the winter, whilst EMA is closed and that DHL also wanted to operate from Birmingham but there just isn't the room. I don't know if that has now changed?

Whilst you are here I wonder if you have heard any rumours about a possible new freighter service starting, possibly in the not too distant future?

 

[JENNYJET]

Kevin Sire, can you recall what A340 model SAA used when it diverted into BHX recently?