Longhaul from Bristol

[ljm104]

Just read a anna aero article on the unserved Bristol-Zurich route. Anna Aero wuotes Peter Downes, Head of Aviation Development at Bristol, as saying “It’s worth highlighting the hub potential of Zurich – with no MEB3 services due to Bristol’s runway length, SWISS would have a great opportunity to build on the strong Lufthansa Group presence at Bristol"

So perhaps there we have it - the runway at BRS is the primary obstacle to an MEB3 carrier

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Just read a anna aero article on the unserved Bristol-Zurich route. Anna Aero wuotes Peter Downes, Head of Aviation Development at Bristol, as saying “It’s worth highlighting the hub potential of Zurich – with no MEB3 services due to Bristol’s runway length, SWISS would have a great opportunity to build on the strong Lufthansa Group presence at Bristol"

So perhaps there we have it - the runway at BRS is the primary obstacle to an MEB3 carrier

B777s and A380s can be ruled out at BRS but Qatar operates B787-8s which should be no problem from BRS to Doha.

Etihad operates B787-9s with B787-10s on order. They also have on order A350-900s and A350-1000s. However, despite these being 'plastic' aircraft and at one time thought to be the answer to BRS long haul the larger 787s might be too big and the same applies to the A350s.

Nevertheless, the airport management still goes on about getting a ME connection. If it's not one of the MEB3 (MEB2 really as clearly Emirates is out of contention with the size of its aircraft) one can only wonder who they have in mind. I can't think of anyone.

Flydubai currently operates B737-800 aircraft which may not have the range from BRS. They have 737 MAX on order which might. However, I'm not aware that they feed into Emirates and anyway Flybedubai seems to be operating some of its flights into and out of neighbouring Al-Maktoum Airport (AWC).

I fly each year to Melbourne and use mainly Gatwick with Emirates via Dubai. I've looked at feeding into Lufthansa using the bmi regional code share from BRS to FRA, but it was really unworkable, apart from having two aircraft changes en route instead of the current one (which is bad enough). I'm not sure how I would view a double change via Zurich. Anyway, that's me. Others might well take a different view.

 

[Jerry]

the larger 787s might be too big and the same applies to the A350s.

I believe the only aircraft that could takeoff from BRS's runway is the 787 8 and only Qatar operates that aircraft out of the ME3. Another option could be Turkish Airlines who could use narrow body aircraft.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Strange quote though from the BRS head of aviation development which, as ljm 104 suggests, could be taken to mean that none of the MEB3 could use BRS because of the runway length.

I've tried contacting BRS before on this point, asking which wide-bodied types could use the airport for non-stop ME and US routes, but I was fobbed off with comments such as 'We are always looking to increase our route portfolio including long haul' with no direct reply to the specific operational points I raised.

If TOM can fly to Mexico non-stop with their B787-8s Doha should be no problem with this type.

 

[Marko1]

To be honest I would like to think that brs was targeting the millions that are using other U.K. Airports for short haul travel. It is astonishing that one of the top destinations that passengers travelled outside our region was Amsterdam !! We need to focus on improving key short haul business routes while improving choice on our sun routes. If long haul comes then that's good but I don't think it be here any time soon. Let's get our links to places like Scandinavia, Germany and Italy sorted first

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Coincidentally, I posted this comment as part of a reply yesterday morning on a BHX thread when someone raised the question of the respective sizes of the BHX and BRS catchments:

For its size (both catchment and physical airfield) BRS excels as a short haul airport served mainly by locos. Realistically, it can never be much more than that, and does and will continue to rely on airports such as LHR and to an extent BHX for most of its region's direct long haul travel.

Like you I think that BRS should concentrate on what it is undoubtedly good at - attracting carriers to short haul routes. Even if BRS was more favourably situated with a much bigger site, longer runway and better surface access I have my doubts that it would be a major regional long haul player.

The management itself (in its master plan) accepts that scheduled long haul routes are limited because of demand. A daily NYC service was very nice and undoubtedly of use to some but it was really only a footnote to the airport's core business. BRS, and airports like it, can never hope to see more than a handful (at best) of long haul scheduled routes and, in truth, with almost inevitable limited frequency (no more than single daily) are they much more than vanity projects? However, if one or two came along then fine but I don't think they will ever be a major part of the BRS scene.

With LHR up the road with a huge array of destinations, airlines and frequencies many people who want a direct journey will and do elect for that because of the choice provided against a single daily direct BRS route which would be fine for NYC, if that's where it went, but which would still entail an aircraft change if anywhere else in North America was the traveller's final destination. So is that really any different from the current regime of changing aircraft at Amsterdam or Dublin for North America?

Hubs remain BRS's best bet for long haul and although I prefer direct flights every time I did at one time regularly use KLM via AMS for Canada and the USA from BRS, and it worked satisfactorily although the choice was still less than flying direct from LHR.

I agree about Germany. On paper it looks decently served but Hamburg, Dusseldorf, Frankfurt and Munich are served by bmi regional, a small airline with small aircraft and high fares. The plus factor is that they code share with Lufthansa on Frankfurt and Munich. easyJet's Berlin (SXF) route is of course point to point only.

With Germany the key will be to get larger aircraft at more realistic fares with LH code share availability to at least FRA and MUC. In 2008 and 2009 the 3 x daily Eurowings Bae 146-300s operating for Lufthansa to Frankfurt showed a market existed in bodies. They carried a touch under 100,000 passengers in the year of operation but in the end the recession saw to the route's demise.

 

[superking]

A fairly long post in the Weston mercury today from mr Sinclair about heathrow. in short he is hoping to pick up airlines from there ,with the runway probs or lack of them up there. I tried to get link but could not get it sorry.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

A fairly long post in the Weston mercury today from mr Sinclair about heathrow. in short he is hoping to pick up airlines from there ,with the runway probs or lack of them up there. I tried to get link but could not get it sorry.

It was probably a report based on the airport press release that I copied to post #193 in the BRS Road, Rail and Access Issues thread the other day.

The press release can be found on the airport website at https://www.bristolairport.co.uk/ab...dia-centre/2016/12/leakage-to-london-airports

 

[Ray Finkle]

Emirates are considering adding 737's or A320's to their fleet.

A MAX or a NEO could potentially be interesting for the likes of BRS?

Over the next 18 months the airline will decide between adding the smaller aircraft like the Boeing 737 or Airbus A320, combining that with a deal for smaller twin-aisle jets, or continuing to only buy twin-aisle aircraft.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/02/13/new...rplane-study-clark-quest-interview/index.html

 

[forest1979]

I believe Etihad & Qatar already have 320 neo's on order and operate smaller jets now, so ahead of Emirates on that one. I questioned some time ago about Etihad and Qatar operating from Bristol using 320 family variants as both do use these jets on European routes, in fact im sure Qatar fly a 320 into LHR once a day. Im not sure if it is viable from Bristol and if this changes with the neo's?, (I'm sure someone on here will know)
If they can then I guess this would have already been on BRS radar when they have been talking about middle eastern connections.
Incidentally I emailed both Qatar and Turkish to sound them out about Bristol. I didn't expect anything back and wasn't disappointed. Both said they are continually working on their route network and to check out their websites for news and new destinations. Turkish said they working on lots of destinations over the next year or so and I guess inline with aircraft availability.
I personally think Bristol long haul for now will be charter with Thomson unless TCX decide to take on a route or compete if demand is high on Florida or Cancun for example.

 

[Jerry]

I'd be very surprised if Emirates ordered narrow bodied aircraft. 787s and A330s would fit into thier business model if they wanted to access small airports like Bristol. Plus any attempt at short haul would clash with Fly Dubai. I think the most likeliest to turn up at BRS would be Turkish. I'd be surprised if Qatar or Etihad turned up.

 

[ethanegcc]

QR did operate a 319 into LHR one daily at one point, but that has now ended.

 

[kraktoa]

We have been discussing long haul at Bristol for years now. It does not help when the CEO Sinclair makes vague pronouncements with no follow ups. That carrot has been dangled for far too long. Every year we get the same routine.....look out we may have a trans atlantic soon......then nothing and another year has gone by.

I am not bothering this year with long haul speculation at BRS.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

Turkish has been cutting back at a number of airports. A couple of years ago when Turkish was expanding there was general speculation in the aviation press that BRS would be the next UK airport to see the airline but problems in Turkey and then Brexit seem to have put a brake on the airline's expansion.

About 15 months ago the UK/Ireland manager of Qatar was reported saying that the airline was looking to serve the South West (see below linked report, para 4). Again it may be that Brexit has forced a re-think on that but Qatar has always seemed to me to be the most likely of the MEB3 to serve BRS. Their B 787-8s should have no trouble operating to Doha from BRS.

There is also Conns757's recent cryptic comment that a scheduled airline had been in touch that would be a 'spotter's dream'. I can't think he's referring to the smaller Boeings and Airbuses usually seen at BRS no matter how exotic an airline's livery might be.

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/qatar-airways-said-eye-new-flights-gatwick-ireland-612899.html

787s and A330s would fit into thier business model if they wanted to access small airports like Bristol.

Jerry, when you say small airports like Bristol are you referring to its physical size or its passenger throughput. If the latter NCL (about three million fewer passengers per year than BRS) and GLA (about one and a half million more passengers per year than BRS) both have EK services to DXB, so from a commercial perspective BRS ought to be capable of servicing such a route if the right-sized aircraft could be found to operate from the restricted Lulsgate airfield.

 

[Jerry]

Jerry, when you say small airports like Bristol are you referring to its physical size

I meant size wise with the runway restriction as there 777's wouldn't be able to land and takeoff whereas the 787s and A330s are able to.
Qatar do have the aircraft type for BRS so it'll be interesting to see if they start flights.
When Conns757 said spotters dream could BA be classed as that as BRS doesn't get to see BA aircraft?

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I meant size wise with the runway restriction as there 777's wouldn't be able to land and takeoff whereas the 787s and A330s are able to.
Qatar do have the aircraft type for BRS so it'll be interesting to see if they start flights.
When Conns757 said spotters dream could BA be classed as that as BRS doesn't get to see BA aircraft?

He drew a distinction between the airline that the airport had been talking to for a while which turns out to be BACF when he said, Lastly , another possible scheduled operator showed interest recently and if it comes off it could be a spotters dream !!

 

[Foxlimayankee]

Can't see anything new happening now for 2017 and probably a bit early for announcements of new 2018 Airlines

 

[Jerry]

Can't see anything new happening now for 2017 and probably a bit early for announcements of new 2018 Airlines

Unless any potential airline launches at a reduced frequency during the winter ie 3 weekly? March or April could be a good time to announce it then as it gives plenty of time for advertising especially connections (if a ME3) to far east destinations that are popular in the winter like Thailand.

 

[TheLocalYokel]

I'm not saying anything is going to happen re this 'spotter's dream' airline. We all know that airports and airlines speak to each other all the time and I suspect that for the majority of the time no deal is struck, but if I had to guess which airline it was I'd say Qatar. I agree it's not likely that anything will happen this year if at all.

 

[Marko1]

Personally although it would be a dream to have a long haul schedule service again after seven years absence. However I think it would be better to improve our connectivity via hubs in Europe first to prove that demand is there for direct flights to the middle/ Far East. Qatar airways allows passengers to book from brs already using Brussels as the connecting point so maybe the focus should be on growing key routes such as ams bru cdg muc and fra. And let's get proper flights to cph with sas and Zrh with Swiss