Thread on airliners.net, about Jet Airways future expansion. MAN getting a couple of mentions with quite a few votes of confidence in a potential BOM-MAN route. I wish...http://www.airliners.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1353481&p=19311473#p19311473
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Dobbo
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As noted, Etihad are presumed to be driving Indian O&D traffic to MAN via AUH. I think MAN will become increasingly attractive for Jet to serve direct as the connecting options with VS continue to improve.
Not quite sure we'll see it in the next couple of years but you never know.
Not quite sure we'll see it in the next couple of years but you never know.
"For me, 2017 is shaping up to be a slight disappointment after it was hyped up, with most plans for bases dwindling."
Forgive me for going back a couple of days (I've been away) but I thought that this quote above was worth revisiting. I think we need to be really honest with ourselves here. What has been hyped-up? Have we ourselves been guilty of cherry-picking potential good news stories for discussion and turning a blind-eye to those which don't fit the narrative?
Back in the Autumn, a MAG spokesman went on record saying that the airport was planning for 2% growth in 2017. Now admittedly, it is quite normal for a well-run company to under-promise and over-deliver. Shareholders love that. But they will only lowball their estimates so much. There are limits. That 2% number which was discussed on various forums at the time may have acted very briefly as a bucket of cold water but we were quick to disregard it. Whilst one would hope that MAN could do significantly better in 2017, remember that three-fold this increase is still only a 6% rise. Clearly, MAG were managing expectations to reflect difficult conditions ahead in the market (and they are far more in tune with things than we are).
What gave us the impression that 2017 would be a boom-year? I suspect that the usual culprit is to blame: reading too much into slot-applications. The formula I use is that a slot-application for any new service should be viewed as an expression of interest. Nothing more. When a new service is formally announced to the media, we can then have a reasonable degree of confidence that it will happen. And when the wheels of the first flight touch down on Ringway's hallowed concrete we can finally celebrate and consider the service in the bag.
So what are the key disappointments so far? No Norwegian base ... well, let's be clear, they never announced one. MAG announced nothing. And we know that several airports would be in the bidding for a new Norwegian base ... and it is quite normal to book slots at several airports until a final decision is made. Then the surplus slots get returned to the pool. Vueling base? Not announced by either the airline or by MAG. Only in the public domain because we have (maybe?) read too much into the slot-application stage. And that, technically, isn't in the public domain anyway. Same story applies. Vueling could still happen (hope so!) but we are still firmly at the expression of interest stage with this one. Huge FlyBe increase? That early +66% number was down to rescheduling of slots; duplicates now returned to the pool. Still looking like a healthy increase from them but we need to be realistic in our expectations. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Long-haul. No Air China PVG announcement so far. But we all know how political UK-China routes are. They always take forever between conception and fruition. And since this one was first mooted, a new bilateral arrangement has opened up new opportunities for the London Airports. Delta to DTW? Again, nothing announced at any stage. Just another expression of interest. And given the economic climate and political uncertainty at present a postponement of any intention to launch this route appears sensible. We're actually fortunate at MAN that Thomas Cook and Virgin are risking some new US routes for MAN this year. British Airways transatlantic from MAN? Wherever did this come from? No hint of an announcement to this effect from either BA or MAG. And not even a slot-application in this case either.
And we can extend the principles discussed above to new slot-applications across the board. It is quite normal for more new slots to be handed back than taken up before a typical start-of-season. The problem is that we ourselves have taken expressions of interest too literally and thought of them as being prematurely in the bag. Remember that MAG themselves have not made any announcement which could be construed as over-hyping potential growth in 2017. Quite the opposite: they put out that 2% forecast and spoke in terms of "headwinds" in public.
Because we talked ourselves into anticipating super-growth in 2017, we are set up for disappointment if actual growth comes in at (say) 5%. But a figure like that would be a very creditable performance against the backdrop of a weak pound, political uncertainty and terrorist outrages in popular destinations. Far better to temper our own expectations and then be fully appreciative of the growth which is achieved in the final analysis.
Note that this posting is not aimed at specific individuals. We're all guilty of reading too much into expressions of interest. It is so easy to do and such a temptation. And we all love hearing about the new speculative slot applications, the new GDS entries and the latest exotic airline talking to MAG. Then we talk amongst ourselves and become convinced that the proposed new service is nailed on.
No. Remember the formula (and save yourself lots of heartache).
New slot application = Expression of Interest [Meh ...]
New Service Announced to Media = Looking Good [Hmmm?]
Service opened for bookings = Looking Really Good! [Hmmmm!!!]
First flight touches down at MAN = Hit the Vimto! Its in the bag. [Yee-Haw!!!!!!]
Meanwhile, keep those expectations realistic!
Forgive me for going back a couple of days (I've been away) but I thought that this quote above was worth revisiting. I think we need to be really honest with ourselves here. What has been hyped-up? Have we ourselves been guilty of cherry-picking potential good news stories for discussion and turning a blind-eye to those which don't fit the narrative?
Back in the Autumn, a MAG spokesman went on record saying that the airport was planning for 2% growth in 2017. Now admittedly, it is quite normal for a well-run company to under-promise and over-deliver. Shareholders love that. But they will only lowball their estimates so much. There are limits. That 2% number which was discussed on various forums at the time may have acted very briefly as a bucket of cold water but we were quick to disregard it. Whilst one would hope that MAN could do significantly better in 2017, remember that three-fold this increase is still only a 6% rise. Clearly, MAG were managing expectations to reflect difficult conditions ahead in the market (and they are far more in tune with things than we are).
What gave us the impression that 2017 would be a boom-year? I suspect that the usual culprit is to blame: reading too much into slot-applications. The formula I use is that a slot-application for any new service should be viewed as an expression of interest. Nothing more. When a new service is formally announced to the media, we can then have a reasonable degree of confidence that it will happen. And when the wheels of the first flight touch down on Ringway's hallowed concrete we can finally celebrate and consider the service in the bag.
So what are the key disappointments so far? No Norwegian base ... well, let's be clear, they never announced one. MAG announced nothing. And we know that several airports would be in the bidding for a new Norwegian base ... and it is quite normal to book slots at several airports until a final decision is made. Then the surplus slots get returned to the pool. Vueling base? Not announced by either the airline or by MAG. Only in the public domain because we have (maybe?) read too much into the slot-application stage. And that, technically, isn't in the public domain anyway. Same story applies. Vueling could still happen (hope so!) but we are still firmly at the expression of interest stage with this one. Huge FlyBe increase? That early +66% number was down to rescheduling of slots; duplicates now returned to the pool. Still looking like a healthy increase from them but we need to be realistic in our expectations. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.
Long-haul. No Air China PVG announcement so far. But we all know how political UK-China routes are. They always take forever between conception and fruition. And since this one was first mooted, a new bilateral arrangement has opened up new opportunities for the London Airports. Delta to DTW? Again, nothing announced at any stage. Just another expression of interest. And given the economic climate and political uncertainty at present a postponement of any intention to launch this route appears sensible. We're actually fortunate at MAN that Thomas Cook and Virgin are risking some new US routes for MAN this year. British Airways transatlantic from MAN? Wherever did this come from? No hint of an announcement to this effect from either BA or MAG. And not even a slot-application in this case either.
And we can extend the principles discussed above to new slot-applications across the board. It is quite normal for more new slots to be handed back than taken up before a typical start-of-season. The problem is that we ourselves have taken expressions of interest too literally and thought of them as being prematurely in the bag. Remember that MAG themselves have not made any announcement which could be construed as over-hyping potential growth in 2017. Quite the opposite: they put out that 2% forecast and spoke in terms of "headwinds" in public.
Because we talked ourselves into anticipating super-growth in 2017, we are set up for disappointment if actual growth comes in at (say) 5%. But a figure like that would be a very creditable performance against the backdrop of a weak pound, political uncertainty and terrorist outrages in popular destinations. Far better to temper our own expectations and then be fully appreciative of the growth which is achieved in the final analysis.
Note that this posting is not aimed at specific individuals. We're all guilty of reading too much into expressions of interest. It is so easy to do and such a temptation. And we all love hearing about the new speculative slot applications, the new GDS entries and the latest exotic airline talking to MAG. Then we talk amongst ourselves and become convinced that the proposed new service is nailed on.
No. Remember the formula (and save yourself lots of heartache).
New slot application = Expression of Interest [Meh ...]
New Service Announced to Media = Looking Good [Hmmm?]
Service opened for bookings = Looking Really Good! [Hmmmm!!!]
First flight touches down at MAN = Hit the Vimto! Its in the bag. [Yee-Haw!!!!!!]
Meanwhile, keep those expectations realistic!
Last edited:
To answer simply, yes; we do generate an awful lot of expectation on the forum and, yes, of course all of the 'hype' was from rumours and expression of interest. No routes were ever announced by Manchester, but between trusted sources on this forum amongst other sources e.g. routeonline.com firm expressions of interest were made which implies that it could eventually shape up to be a new route.
The Norwegian base was mentioned in several articles and has been posted by several rumours online, as has the Vueling base, which both had great potential to come to fruition.
Air Canada Rouge to Vancouver, Air China, Cathay Pacific going to daily etc. are all sourced rumours that have circulated on this site and others which express a clear interest in Manchester and that has fuelled optimism. Perhaps over-optimism, granted but there is substance behind these completely viable rumours. Of course, if a rumour arose that Aerolineas Argentinas was to offer daily services between EZE and MAN, we would be more cautious but the fact is that the potential viability of the routes inevitably develops more optimism and hope.
Now, many, if not all, of the above plans mentioned above have not progressed any further from the stage of 'expression of interest' as egcc_man mentions in his post, it is naturally considered a bit of a disappointment, especially as these routes are extremely viable options.
Our expectations are completely realistic and I never propose that the new service is nailed on until it becomes bookable but an expression of interest is an expression of interest and therefore develops the hope that it may become a reality and when it doesn't, it can become a slight disappointment, although it isn't causing me heartache by any stretch. Speculating and discussing, with a sprinkle of optimism I am sure is very much enjoyed on this forum.
I completely agree that a slot application doesn't directly translate into a new route and I have never posted any slot-applications nor solely based a discussion on a new route on slot applications, without substance and realism behind it.
And whilst I do think that we are over-optimistic, I don't wish to be pessimistic either and continue to doubt the route will launch after it becomes bookable.
Sorry for a potentially badly structured answer and one heavily balanced to include potential prosperity for the future at MAN, and I hope it comes across I am not completely disagreeing with your point at all, just expressing my view.
The Norwegian base was mentioned in several articles and has been posted by several rumours online, as has the Vueling base, which both had great potential to come to fruition.
Air Canada Rouge to Vancouver, Air China, Cathay Pacific going to daily etc. are all sourced rumours that have circulated on this site and others which express a clear interest in Manchester and that has fuelled optimism. Perhaps over-optimism, granted but there is substance behind these completely viable rumours. Of course, if a rumour arose that Aerolineas Argentinas was to offer daily services between EZE and MAN, we would be more cautious but the fact is that the potential viability of the routes inevitably develops more optimism and hope.
Now, many, if not all, of the above plans mentioned above have not progressed any further from the stage of 'expression of interest' as egcc_man mentions in his post, it is naturally considered a bit of a disappointment, especially as these routes are extremely viable options.
Our expectations are completely realistic and I never propose that the new service is nailed on until it becomes bookable but an expression of interest is an expression of interest and therefore develops the hope that it may become a reality and when it doesn't, it can become a slight disappointment, although it isn't causing me heartache by any stretch. Speculating and discussing, with a sprinkle of optimism I am sure is very much enjoyed on this forum.
I completely agree that a slot application doesn't directly translate into a new route and I have never posted any slot-applications nor solely based a discussion on a new route on slot applications, without substance and realism behind it.
And whilst I do think that we are over-optimistic, I don't wish to be pessimistic either and continue to doubt the route will launch after it becomes bookable.
Sorry for a potentially badly structured answer and one heavily balanced to include potential prosperity for the future at MAN, and I hope it comes across I am not completely disagreeing with your point at all, just expressing my view.
No problem with exchanging points of view. That's why we're here. And I agree with much of what you state. Slot applications don't just appear by magic. They're there because an airline is genuinely giving consideration to using them.
But we do need to keep in mind how the slot-allocation system works. Because operators plan so far ahead they will often narrow down their potential shortlist for one new route to (say) four possibilities. If the timescale demands it, they may apply for slots at all four of those airports. Then when the final choice is made they hand back the slots reserved at the other three. So there was genuine interest in all four destinations ... but only one was ever going to be chosen. Where we can draw encouragement from this process is that if MAN made the shortlist this season, perhaps it will be the frontrunner in a future one.
Another consideration in the slot applications is rescheduling. A couple of years back, slots showed that KLM were going to double their flights from MAN. The truth was that they were re-timing their programme and for a brief period slots were held simultaneously for the old schedule and the new one. This kind of thing is fairly common. Another issue which arises is when more than one charter carrier is bidding for a contract from an independent tour operator. For example, we may see two or three different airlines file programmes for summer charter series to Greece. Then one of those airlines is awarded the contract. The unsuccessful bidders return their slots to the pool. These are just some typical examples, but they all contribute to raising expectations when first reports emerge that seat capacity for summer is up by 20% based on slot applications.
I'm absolutely in favour of discussing expressions of interest and future possibilities. I should be - I'm as guilty as anyone on this. But I do encourage people to familiarise themselves with the limitations of the slot-application system. If you understand the routine handback rate of slots relating to new service proposals you will be steeled for the inevitable disappointments. We're never going to get close to 100% of expressions of interest turning into bona fide new services. The sooner we accept that reality the sooner we can appreciate the real success which MAN is currently enjoying. Its a matter of heart versus head. If we've persuaded ourselves to believe that 25% growth is realistic we will end up very disappointed with 10% growth (which would actually be great).
Just one final point to be clear. My earlier posting wasn't aimed at you, Ethan. It was a reality check for all of us. A collection of like-minds can often allow groupthink to persuade them because of weight of support from many voices. The Air Canada Rouge example is a great case-in-point. I don't think they ever applied for MAN-YVR slots (though correct me on this if you know differently). They never mentioned MAN-YVR. It just seemed that because they'd used a similar gap in their schedule to insert LGW-YVR that some thought the same would happen at MAN. Then many voices supported the notion, and next thing we know its almost a sure thing. Now people are deflated because a service which existed only within our own F4A think-tank didn't come to pass in reality. Sad really, because there are so many genuine successes to celebrate out there.
Keep those expectations in check and we can all enjoy the ride.
But we do need to keep in mind how the slot-allocation system works. Because operators plan so far ahead they will often narrow down their potential shortlist for one new route to (say) four possibilities. If the timescale demands it, they may apply for slots at all four of those airports. Then when the final choice is made they hand back the slots reserved at the other three. So there was genuine interest in all four destinations ... but only one was ever going to be chosen. Where we can draw encouragement from this process is that if MAN made the shortlist this season, perhaps it will be the frontrunner in a future one.
Another consideration in the slot applications is rescheduling. A couple of years back, slots showed that KLM were going to double their flights from MAN. The truth was that they were re-timing their programme and for a brief period slots were held simultaneously for the old schedule and the new one. This kind of thing is fairly common. Another issue which arises is when more than one charter carrier is bidding for a contract from an independent tour operator. For example, we may see two or three different airlines file programmes for summer charter series to Greece. Then one of those airlines is awarded the contract. The unsuccessful bidders return their slots to the pool. These are just some typical examples, but they all contribute to raising expectations when first reports emerge that seat capacity for summer is up by 20% based on slot applications.
I'm absolutely in favour of discussing expressions of interest and future possibilities. I should be - I'm as guilty as anyone on this. But I do encourage people to familiarise themselves with the limitations of the slot-application system. If you understand the routine handback rate of slots relating to new service proposals you will be steeled for the inevitable disappointments. We're never going to get close to 100% of expressions of interest turning into bona fide new services. The sooner we accept that reality the sooner we can appreciate the real success which MAN is currently enjoying. Its a matter of heart versus head. If we've persuaded ourselves to believe that 25% growth is realistic we will end up very disappointed with 10% growth (which would actually be great).
Just one final point to be clear. My earlier posting wasn't aimed at you, Ethan. It was a reality check for all of us. A collection of like-minds can often allow groupthink to persuade them because of weight of support from many voices. The Air Canada Rouge example is a great case-in-point. I don't think they ever applied for MAN-YVR slots (though correct me on this if you know differently). They never mentioned MAN-YVR. It just seemed that because they'd used a similar gap in their schedule to insert LGW-YVR that some thought the same would happen at MAN. Then many voices supported the notion, and next thing we know its almost a sure thing. Now people are deflated because a service which existed only within our own F4A think-tank didn't come to pass in reality. Sad really, because there are so many genuine successes to celebrate out there.
Keep those expectations in check and we can all enjoy the ride.
David_itl
Well-Known Member
- Jan 31, 2016
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Indeed some of the "expected" long-haul was again tied in for later this year. Yes, it would be great to have the news now but we've still got a fair few months before we can definitely rule them out. For example, the potential BA news of long haul wouldn't necessarily raise its head until much later in the year - the pointers indicated a 2018 start. The 777 fleet reconfiguration would be in the death throes then and they would want to get all their LGW routes standardised first before looking elsewhere.
I've been doing some rough calculations regarding Hainan....until June, we are talking passenger numbers being added as there's nothing to look back on for previous years. Roughly 26 weeks at 4 per week means 104 flights we didn't have last year so call it around 60,000 seats. Going in for a 70% loads means 42,000 passengers. If they are going daily then using the same "formula" it should be around 30,000 passengers extra from June. That service alone with 70,000 extra passengers would account for nearly 0.3% growth on top of last year's total passenger number.
I've been doing some rough calculations regarding Hainan....until June, we are talking passenger numbers being added as there's nothing to look back on for previous years. Roughly 26 weeks at 4 per week means 104 flights we didn't have last year so call it around 60,000 seats. Going in for a 70% loads means 42,000 passengers. If they are going daily then using the same "formula" it should be around 30,000 passengers extra from June. That service alone with 70,000 extra passengers would account for nearly 0.3% growth on top of last year's total passenger number.
David_itl
Well-Known Member
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Guess what's the largest unserved Europe-Thailand route? 135,000 passengers last year.
http://www.anna.aero/2017/01/24/europe-thailand-trends/
"The most popular connection points for passengers in 2016 included Dubai (29% of traffic), Doha (27%) and Abu Dhabi (22%)."
http://www.anna.aero/2017/01/24/europe-thailand-trends/
"The most popular connection points for passengers in 2016 included Dubai (29% of traffic), Doha (27%) and Abu Dhabi (22%)."
Surely this must be very high up on TG's radar? I really hope it materialises for W17 but I am not holding out much hope.
135,000 (around) is a great figure and by far the largest unserved market in the UK. BHX has about 45,000 I think so the MAN link could tap into that large market also. A daily service should also be supportable - would be amazing to see an airline come in straight at daily. The Thai/UK origination is fairly balanced also.
135,000 (around) is a great figure and by far the largest unserved market in the UK. BHX has about 45,000 I think so the MAN link could tap into that large market also. A daily service should also be supportable - would be amazing to see an airline come in straight at daily. The Thai/UK origination is fairly balanced also.
Dobbo
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- Oct 27, 2015
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I'd be shocked if MAN-BKK was not on TG's radar (and others). Those numbers would support a daily flight, and the connections to Australasia would pick up another decent chunk of the market. As we know, a direct flight stimulates the market.
It is interesting that the origin points are fairly balanced, 53.5% coming from MAN and the remaining 46.5% from BKK. I thought it would be very biased towards MAN originating PAX.
The only downside that I can see, would be an erosion to CX and SQ's market share. Perhaps TG do something a little different with their flight timings to differentiate themselves?
It is interesting that the origin points are fairly balanced, 53.5% coming from MAN and the remaining 46.5% from BKK. I thought it would be very biased towards MAN originating PAX.
The only downside that I can see, would be an erosion to CX and SQ's market share. Perhaps TG do something a little different with their flight timings to differentiate themselves?
I can't see many people doing MAN-SIN/HKG-BKK as it is a backtrack. I would think that it would erode moreso the MEB3 flights, which can't hurt too much.
TG's European flights generally have an 11am (ish) departure, arriving into Bangkok around 6am +1. This is the case with almost all Thai European destinations e.g. FCO/MXP (359) and OSL/CPH/ARN (77W) and also CDG (388). There is a late night departure from Heathrow, however, with the 77W
TG's European flights generally have an 11am (ish) departure, arriving into Bangkok around 6am +1. This is the case with almost all Thai European destinations e.g. FCO/MXP (359) and OSL/CPH/ARN (77W) and also CDG (388). There is a late night departure from Heathrow, however, with the 77W
Oh yes - of course. Although I know both CX and SQ offer more destinations in Australasia than Thai, although BKK offers a more direct routing to MEL/SYD.
I also think that 'loyals' will remain with Emirates e.g. I know people that, despite knowing SQ operates non-stop, still travel via DXB with Emirates
I also think that 'loyals' will remain with Emirates e.g. I know people that, despite knowing SQ operates non-stop, still travel via DXB with Emirates
Dobbo
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- Oct 27, 2015
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Yes, the advantage EK et al have is the shorter sector times to the Middle East Hubs from MAN make it easier to offer multiple departure times.
I'd love to see SQ offer a late departure from MAN, but that is miles away from coming to pass and there is a lot of work needed to get the present route to daily.
I'd love to see SQ offer a late departure from MAN, but that is miles away from coming to pass and there is a lot of work needed to get the present route to daily.
Dobbo
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- Oct 27, 2015
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Hi All
Just wanted to make a couple of my own comments on our friend User_001 (aka LAX_LHR) and also to relay a message.
Firstly, I know that the vast majority of our information on here still comes from him. It is usually relayed from his postings elsewhere. This is fine, as the message still gets through and provokes discussion.
Secondly, I know a lot of his information comes from "upstream" sources. By the time it gets "downstream" (to things like slot applications) the basic background of the route proposal has been known for sometime.
These routes, particularly the long haul ones, are major investments and they take a lot of time to put together and are very easy to be pulled down. They involve cross boarder legal and political minefields and are highly susceptible to economic shock. As a result, airlines are cautious.
Just because news takes time (in some cases years) to filter through does not mean it is BS. I accept we are subject to confirmation bias, but the reality is that there is very little that is unrealistic at MAN and in some cases we have extremely reliable information. Take today's example, where Ryiadh was spotted around a year ago on a Saudia route map, or Kuwait which has been reported locally. The timeline may slip, but these are not flights of fancy.
As many of you have noticed, user has come off a number of forums including this one. He occasionally posts elsewhere to raise awareness of MAN (which is not necessary here). This seems to be working, as the non MAN lot pick up the news and we relay it here.
User did not announce his leaving to get gushing thanks or 'don't go'. It was simply to say he was reducing his social media footprint' - which he has done.
Best wishes and have a good evening!
Dobbo
Just wanted to make a couple of my own comments on our friend User_001 (aka LAX_LHR) and also to relay a message.
Firstly, I know that the vast majority of our information on here still comes from him. It is usually relayed from his postings elsewhere. This is fine, as the message still gets through and provokes discussion.
Secondly, I know a lot of his information comes from "upstream" sources. By the time it gets "downstream" (to things like slot applications) the basic background of the route proposal has been known for sometime.
These routes, particularly the long haul ones, are major investments and they take a lot of time to put together and are very easy to be pulled down. They involve cross boarder legal and political minefields and are highly susceptible to economic shock. As a result, airlines are cautious.
Just because news takes time (in some cases years) to filter through does not mean it is BS. I accept we are subject to confirmation bias, but the reality is that there is very little that is unrealistic at MAN and in some cases we have extremely reliable information. Take today's example, where Ryiadh was spotted around a year ago on a Saudia route map, or Kuwait which has been reported locally. The timeline may slip, but these are not flights of fancy.
As many of you have noticed, user has come off a number of forums including this one. He occasionally posts elsewhere to raise awareness of MAN (which is not necessary here). This seems to be working, as the non MAN lot pick up the news and we relay it here.
User did not announce his leaving to get gushing thanks or 'don't go'. It was simply to say he was reducing his social media footprint' - which he has done.
Best wishes and have a good evening!
Dobbo
Of course not, just was a bit confused (like others). Completely understand now.
Glad to hear Kuwait means something and whoever's opinion the above is, it is great and encouraging.
David_itl
Well-Known Member
- Jan 31, 2016
- 2,089
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Ryanair route rumour... Luxembourg (sticking it here and not in their thread as nothing concrete)
http://www.wort.lu/en/luxembourg/st...g-barcelona-flights-58887effa5e74263e13a98d0#
http://www.wort.lu/en/luxembourg/st...g-barcelona-flights-58887effa5e74263e13a98d0#
"As well as these extra flights they also confirmed they're looking into the possibility of adding more destinations with Dublin, Edinburgh, Manchester, Berlin, Warsaw and Rome all on their radar."
http://www.wort.lu/en/luxembourg/st...g-barcelona-flights-58887effa5e74263e13a98d0#
http://www.wort.lu/en/luxembourg/st...g-barcelona-flights-58887effa5e74263e13a98d0#
"As well as these extra flights they also confirmed they're looking into the possibility of adding more destinations with Dublin, Edinburgh, Manchester, Berlin, Warsaw and Rome all on their radar."
I don't think anybody here is suggesting that route proposals discussed on F4A should be considered BS. The lesson which we need to take on board is that many early stage expressions of interest fall by the wayside for all manner of legitimate reasons. This in no way suggests that advance reports of such proposals were insincere. It is simply a matter of understanding the potential pitfalls which can befall a new service proposal from first enquiry through to launch. Once we are familiar with this process we can weigh the odds. Many (genuine) proposals come to nought, others come to fruition. That is the nature of the business. So we mustn't persuade ourselves that an early-stage expression of interest implies a 'sure thing' afew months down the line. We need to align our expectations with the commercial realities of a very tough business.
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Well it looks like I'm off to Australia and New Zealand next year! Booked with BA from Manchester via Heathrow with a stop in Singapore and returning with Air New Zealand and BA via LAX to Heathrow. Will circumnavigate the globe and be my first trans-Pacific flight. First long haul flight with BA as well and of course Air NZ.
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